diy solar

diy solar

Future of DIY LiFePO4 looks bleak…

Honestly, I think this is good for DIYers. You still have the option to fully DIY it but having something so mundane like batteries 100% figured out for you makes it much more fun for people to look and improve other areas of solar - new BMS systems, communication protocols, and loads of other things that can still be worked on. At the end of the day, more affordable solar systems for people who don't want to learn how to build a battery and set it up means that the industry can move forward and be more accepted for everyone - and that means long term growth and opportunity for the whole DIY community. I love seeing this type of innovation!
 
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Honestly, I think this is good for DIYers. You still have the option to fully DIY it but having something so mundane like batteries 100% figured out for you makes it much more fun for people to look and improve other areas of solar - new BMS systems, communication protocols, and loads of other things that can still be worked on. At the end of the day, more affordable solar systems for people who don't want to learn how to build a battery and set it up means that the industry can move forward and be more accepted for everyone - and that means long term growth and opportunity for the whole DIY community. I love seeing this type of innovation!
This is a great way to look at it, and mostly reflects my viewpoints (or my hope) as well. These two tracks are not mutually exclusive or in competition, they are complementary. I do think its possible that in the future DIY batteries will probably not be nearly as big of a thing, but that may not be for some time, and that isn't such a bad thing. Most people DIY batteries to save money and/or due to lack of decent options in the OTS market, both of these factors are changing rapidly.
 
I used to say that my 560Ah of DIY cells (4s2p) would cost $6000 for an equivalent set of Battleborn batteries. But their heated 100Ah 12v battery now has a list price of $899 with a sale price of $820. So now it's less than $5000. That's some progress, but Battleborn is the high water mark for off the shelf LiFePO4.
What are heated batteries? Can you keep them below 32F?
 
What are heated batteries? Can you keep them below 32F?

There are two approaches to heating LiFePO4 batteries.
1. Heat the battery only when a charge source is available. This means that the battery temperature can fall below 32 degrees and the battery has to wait for the temperature to come up to an acceptable level before the battery starts to charge.
2. Keep the battery always above 32 degrees, usually a bit higher. This allows the battery to be charged at any time.
 
Can be charged at 32 or 34 degrees, but only at much lower current, no where near 0.5C.
Design your system (maximum charge rate from SCC and low-temperature charge disconnect in BMS) accordingly.
 
The current debacle with the 48V rack batteries demonstrates the benefit of diy pretty nicely.
 
The current debacle with the 48V rack batteries demonstrates the benefit of diy pretty nicely.
I'm confused, the current debacle?
Now you done gone and opened a can of worms.
:ROFLMAO:?

If we want to open a can of worms and get the popcorn, we can say the MC Group Buy is a great reason to not to DIY, because supply chains can be so sketchy, along with the countless other shady ali*** suppliers.
 
Debacle took less time to type than clusterfluffle. ?

But earnestly, if I bought 6 Overkill BMS, and drove to houston for some cells, I’d be in better shape both financially and operationally that having bought one of the recent rack batteries.

That may change after people get their act together but I don’t feel so bad not jumping in and buying quickly.
 
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I'm confused, the current debacle?


If we want to open a can of worms and get the popcorn, we can say the MC Group Buy is a great reason to not to DIY, because supply chains can be so sketchy, along with the countless other shady ali*** suppliers.
But this would apply equally to raw cells or pre-made's, this is a question of supply chain and supplier and trust/due diligence, not DIY vs not. Almost all the grey market sellers are selling both raw cells and pre-mades, and pre-mades are made from the same cells as everything else for the most part. Some will be better quality some will be lower quality, still comes back to supplier, supply chain, and not buying the absolute cheapest components.

Point being there are some shady sellers of subpar pre-mades and their are shady sellers of raw cells, we've seen many examples of both, that is a separate issue than DIY vs Prebuilt.
 
My guess. Follow the money. Seems there are entities that do not want diy solar anything because it cuts into the bottom line. Do they pay off politicians and the NEC? Over my pay grade. But I wouldn't be surprised.
Yeah, ask yourself: Why in the NEC are electrical outlets required every 8 feet? What possible "safety" reason could there be for that?

Definitely a money thing ... no different from requiring barbers/stylists to be licensed, which lowers supply of barbers and therefore increases costs.
We live in an utterly corrupt era, where, in another example, the FDA has clearly been captured by Big Pharma. The good news, this example is what will, likely very soon, project us into a new more open, freer era (see: Canadian Truckers), so I'm not so sure the trend of more and more requirements around electrical projects will continue. I do believe that's going to reverse.

I found this thread because I ran into the 2014 NEC (which my local city follows) requirement for near-array RSDs for my roof-based system as I was designing it, and after I've purchased all the major components ($7K of PV + $10K of LifePO4 batteries). I was shocked to see the prices on these RSD devices, as I'd think remote cut-off switches, even if with separate wiring would do the job nicely. I'll keep reading this down this thread ... any advice, point me to any products for this?
 
What possible "safety" reason could there be for that?
It is a practical reason that might eliminate a rats nest of extension cords if the receptacles were further apart. I agree with most NEC code requirements but some do seem to have no logic or faulty logic.
 
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I ran into the 2014 NEC (which my local city follows) requirement for near-array RSDs for my roof-based system as I was designing it
I agree that the RSD requirement may be one of those that could have been driven by Solaredge and Enphase whose equipment natively complies with RSD. I have also talked with a few fire first responders who say, even with RSD they would not go on roof with solar panels.
 
It is a practical reason that might eliminate a rats nest of extension cords if the receptacles were further apart. I agree with most NEC code requirements but some do seem to have no logic or faulty logic.
Heh, you need to look behind my TV cabinet ... I do believe I have an outlet every 8 feet behind it. :)
 
I agree that the RSD requirement may be one of those that could have been driven by Solaredge and Enphase whose equipment natively complies with RSD. I have also talked with a few fire first responders who say, even with RSD they would not go on roof with solar panels.
I have close friend, a NASA scientist, who told me a story of a friend of his who had a small box that produced electricity for his workshop. It, literally, ran off the "ether," or quantum fields. He asked his friend why he wasn't building and marketing it, and his friend replied that he didn't want to get suicided. Cheap / free energy is a massive threat to the Elite ... go read the history of Tesla, who wanted to provide free electricity to the world, and Rockefeller refused to finance the effort, famously saying, "If I can't meter it, I won't finance it." Solar is getting pretty cheap, well worth it if you DIY it ... look for more and more regs making it more and more expensive ... unless, per my comments above, the Canadian Truckers have their way ...
 
That's exactly the reason. Related:

Watched the whole video ... that is one stupid engineering "solution" to a "problem" ... sure does, rather conveniently, force the sale of a whole bunch more outlets ... the video dude is right ... just require correctly sized fuses in extension cords ... clearly, very, very cheap if they can be put in X-mas lights ... it's almost as if they did a calc ... extra revenue to suppliers vs extra cost of fuses in extension cords ...

And, for the record, the mess of wires behind my TV are all directly connected devices to a very long strip with a circuit breaker ...
 
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