SomethingAppropriate
Cannibalism starts with a kiss.
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Future of DIY LiFePO4 looks bleak…
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Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
My brother after Thanksgiving dinner was blabbing about one of Will's videos where Will stated it was cheaper to purchase premade batteries than DIY.
My brother is now an expert because he watched a few of Will's videos.
My response, "My batteries are 280Ah, cells run $74 each plus shipping which varies according to the quantity and whether you want the $330 Luyuan box with it that includes shipping. JK BMS with screen is about $125. About $1800 for 280Ah while a 100Ah premade server rack battery with metal case is about $1300 average. Which is the better deal? And yes, I belong to his online forum".
OffGridForGood
Catch, make or grow everything you can.
ohiogators
New Member
Why does that give me an advantage? You want me to drive to Georgia?
SomethingAppropriate
Cannibalism starts with a kiss.
No. You would get them in 2 days. You would have a place to return them.
They have great prices.
ohiogators
New Member
Are all their cells legit? They do have solid pricing on the mb31s
SomethingAppropriate
Cannibalism starts with a kiss.
they are certainly legit. I have 32 from them. Working great.
OffGridForGood
Catch, make or grow everything you can.
I like the control and experience of the DIY packs.
We may see solar inverters move away from 48v one day, and all the DIY packs can be opened and rearranged for the new voltage if that comes to pass.
If one cell in a pack shows signs of weakness in 8 years - I have spares to swap in.
Projects like ICE-to-Electric lawn tractor would be a snap.
Need a 72volt pack for a special project - not a problem,
If I want to expand my 24v system by re-building a 48v pack into two 24v - can be done in no-time.
too much fun.
I keep playing with the idea of a 100kWh mega-pack that can slide into a pick up box, or between the C-channel rails of a trailer - for added EV range...love seeing the cell prices continue to drop.
We may see solar inverters move away from 48v one day, and all the DIY packs can be opened and rearranged for the new voltage if that comes to pass.
If one cell in a pack shows signs of weakness in 8 years - I have spares to swap in.
Projects like ICE-to-Electric lawn tractor would be a snap.
Need a 72volt pack for a special project - not a problem,
If I want to expand my 24v system by re-building a 48v pack into two 24v - can be done in no-time.
too much fun.
I keep playing with the idea of a 100kWh mega-pack that can slide into a pick up box, or between the C-channel rails of a trailer - for added EV range...love seeing the cell prices continue to drop.
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SomethingAppropriate
Cannibalism starts with a kiss.
Oh hell yeah! Never thought of that awesome sauce!
42OhmsPA
Who likes Electrical Gremlins?
I'm still paying close attention to the SANDI inverter. According to some of MikeG's latest videos some new offerings are coming, they sound pretty awesome.
Bring on HV packs and lower current.
Bring on HV packs and lower current.
Brucey
Velcro Man
If he was talking about say running four ecoworthy 280ah 12v in series, at $400 each with 20% off coupon you are at $1800+$60 for a balancer. Agreed when compared to an off the shelf 14-16kWh battery at $3200+ there can be significant savings to diy.
I would say the general pricr bar for a 5 kWh rack mount is now at $1100 with the midnite solar unit.
OffGridForGood
Catch, make or grow everything you can.
High voltage just seems way too logical to not go that way...
just like 12v to 24v to 48v - generally to keep the amperage below 200-400
but then we see larger and larger inverters - 10kW and 12kW inverters look 'common place' now.
Moving towards a full 200A 240 service? - 48kW inverter or two 24kW paired up...
but wire them with what wire? 750MCM cables? Higher voltages would cut these down to normal wire sizes again.
Remember not long ago, PV line voltages were 140-250vDC and jumped up to 500v and more, reducing current and wire sizes.
and EV batteries have gone up to 800v on some models.
just like 12v to 24v to 48v - generally to keep the amperage below 200-400
but then we see larger and larger inverters - 10kW and 12kW inverters look 'common place' now.
Moving towards a full 200A 240 service? - 48kW inverter or two 24kW paired up...
but wire them with what wire? 750MCM cables? Higher voltages would cut these down to normal wire sizes again.
Remember not long ago, PV line voltages were 140-250vDC and jumped up to 500v and more, reducing current and wire sizes.
and EV batteries have gone up to 800v on some models.
SomethingAppropriate
Cannibalism starts with a kiss.
Sure seems logical.
Coydon
Over Easy
I've had trouble with some Grade Bs I bought there, but that was baked into the purchase price. They have been responsive and helpful with the problems so far...
Control. Reason I went the DIY route. As recently stated it gives me designer flexibility. I can mix and match and restructure my cells in multiple configurations. I am in that current situation. I have a misbehaving cell in one of my batteries. If the cells were welded as in most prebuilt. I would have a very heavy paperweight with a bunch of wasted cells because the one runner (or lagger) limited the capacity. I will be pulling the cell and mixing and matching into two 12v lower demand batteries and replacing with a batch I just received from Amy (top notch product by the way!).
Yes, there is the convenience factor with prebuilt and it is a dopamine rush looking at all the "shiny" bits and pieces. Until the next model comes along to make it obsolete. With DIY I have total control over the cell configuration, voltage, BMS, case, display and more. With prebuilt if something goes wrong, I can get in line with the others who are still trying to get their unit serviced, IF they can afford or work out the freight shipping to move it back and forth.
Yes, there is the convenience factor with prebuilt and it is a dopamine rush looking at all the "shiny" bits and pieces. Until the next model comes along to make it obsolete. With DIY I have total control over the cell configuration, voltage, BMS, case, display and more. With prebuilt if something goes wrong, I can get in line with the others who are still trying to get their unit serviced, IF they can afford or work out the freight shipping to move it back and forth.
I keep playing with the idea of a 1000kWh pack myself...
OffGridForGood
Catch, make or grow everything you can.
Please share !!
{I think I need a bigger Fork lift...}
Once I get the current 400V pack done for the data center (I'll see if I can share that too sometime next year).
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
Links? Can't be much quality there for $720 on a 48V 100Ah.
Anyway, 280 Ah pack at $1800 is $6.43/Ah while 100 Ah for $720 is $7.20/Ah.
That is 10.69% cheaper. It can be even cheaper if you don't use the Luyuan box. $1800 - $330= $1470
That is $5.35/Ah which is 25.69% cheaper.
When you start building 114 Kwh banks, that 10.69% to $25.69% adds up. Take the bank I'm currently building, the box was $200, paint and material will put it at around $800 total. The JK's with screens 125 x 8= $1,000. Class T's were $60 x 8= $480. Luyaun EVE new cells at $74 (shipping not included) x 128 = $9,472. Cables and busbars another $300. Total = $12,062
Meanwhile the 100Ah server rack battery cheapie for $720 (need a link for that), will take 23 batteries (shipping not included) x $720 = $16,560. I would have no control over the quality. Take this AO Lithum thread. You can have it, I wouldn't put that in my house or shop. I still beat it with the 114 Kwh bank by 27%.
In reality, the $1300 is average price for something comparable to what I build and 23 x $1300= $29,900 My box is 59.65% less.
If your income increased by 27%, would you accept it? How about 59.65%?
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Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
What do you need it for on the average home? If your house is sucking that much power, then one needs to start looking at conservation before spending a dime on a PV system. Plus, with AC coupling, no need for HV DC batteries or large cables. That would be the direction things would take if very large loads need to be powered.
Tesla was a smart man, he knew AC was better than DC.
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
Go look at my figures and I'm not building a system for house or shop with Eco Worthy batteries in series. Let's face reality at what works and what doesn't.
Brucey
Velcro Man
I understand the general advice is to avoid series batteries and sticking with "nominal voltage" to avoid issues. Personally I went the other way starting with four 12v 100ah, then a few of some 24V 100ah in series, then finally a 48v 100Ah rack mount as my first "big boy" battery. While it's nice to be able to see cell voltage etc functionally it's not any different from my random array of batteries. I call it MAIB (multiple array of independent batteries). Even with failure of one or more strings the battery bank continues functioning, my goal at the time being to keep pricing at around $800 or less per 5kWh, and allow for moving by one person.
Now I'm at the diy for 280Ah stage, but will still keep the other 24V and 12V in the system.
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