Future of the US solar tax credit

[PVGeezer]

Sounds like you're on a good track but do be sure the POCO and AHJ are on board before buying more gear.

240Vac rating is ok on the disconnect, you're not running DC through it so it doesnt need to be DC rated..

 

[chill633]

Sounds like you're on a good track but do be sure the POCO and AHJ are on board before buying more gear.

240Vac rating is ok on the disconnect, you're not running DC through it so it doesnt need to be DC rated..

Wait. You're telling me the inverter is actually doing its job and I'm just posting too early, with too little caffeine, and over thinking things? This must be one of those days that ends in a "y".

Thank you again.

 

[0truck0]

Your comment shouldn't be confused with reality either.

They're going down. Reality check! dont get smart with me. maybe dont post.

 

[chill633]

Gotta see it from the utility point of view. Those guys never touch your main breaker. That's customer equipment. They need to cut power to your house they get out their PPE and open the MV disconnect on the primary of the transformer, then pull the meter. That's theirs. To them even a big dumb safety disconnect is outside their normal comfort zone. Yes it's knuckle drag-ish but it is what it is.

I know I got an official answer from my utility's support person via e-mail, but they're explicitly contradicting their written interconnection guidelines and instructions. Fuck 'em. I'm submitting to engineering without the visible break disconnect and will take my chances. My install very much meets 6.5 not 6.6.

6.5 DER installed at a single phase electric service location utilizing a self-contained company meter (usually 400A service size, or less), shall have a disconnect switch meeting the requirements of the NEC between the Company meter and the DER PoC. The switch shall be clearly marked, "Generator Disconnect Switch”, with permanent 3/8 inch or larger letters. The preferred location of the switch is outside the building in the immediate vicinity of the electric meter to facilitate access by Company personnel.

6.6 DER installed at a single phase electric service location utilizing an instrumenttransformer cabinet for company metering (usually greater than a 400 A service size),shall be capable of being isolated from the utility system by means of a manual, visibleopen, lockable, load break disconnect switch conforming with the NEC. The switch shallbe installed outdoors in the immediate vicinity of the electric meter, or service entranceto facilitate access by Company personnel. The switch shall be clearly marked,"Generator Disconnect Switch," with permanent 3/8 inch or larger letters.

 

[PVGeezer]

Wait. You're telling me the inverter is actually doing its job and I'm just posting too early, with too little caffeine, and over thinking things? This must be one of those days that ends in a "y".

Thank you again.

I have a lot of those too. More every year in fact....

 

[kw5kw]

I agree the tax credit should go away, but for all equipment.


I would like that law repealed, but the federal government does not repeal any major laws, at least not often. Prohibition was repealed 91 years ago so its possible.

Probation and repeal of were both Constitutional Adments,

I agree the tax credit should go away, but for all equipment.


I would like that law repealed, but the federal government does not repeal any major laws, at least not often. Prohibition was repealed 91 years ago so its possible.

Prohibition was the 18th Amendment to the Constitution while the 21st repealed Prohibition. Laws, yes, but much easier to remove a law than an Amendment.

 

[Coydon]

Probation and repeal of were both Constitutional Adments,

Prohibition was the 18th Amendment to the Constitution while the 21st repealed Prohibition. Laws, yes, but much easier to remove a law than an Amendment.

They ditched the 1st Amendment pretty easily three years ago.

 

[Rednecktek]

So with the tarrifs coming, how do you think my Canadian Solar stock is going to do?

 

[BarracudaBob]

Homeowners Rush to Install Solar Panels Before Trump Cuts Tax Credits

With a new incoming presidential administration, is the solar energy tax credit in the hot seat?

www.kiplinger.com

 

[Hogheavenfarm]

Doesn't really matter, if there are no Federal taxes,(tariffs replace them), then there are no credits, its that simple.

 

[chill633]

Doesn't really matter, if there are no Federal taxes,(tariffs replace them), then there are no credits, its that simple.

Uh, what? You don't pay income tax? Those tax credits work like this:

1. You go to work, get a paycheck, and have income tax withheld from your paycheck (W-2 withholding).
2. Annually, on or before April 15th, you do the paperwork to reconcile everything. If too much was withheld, you get the extra back as a refund. If you paid too little, you pay the difference (owe taxes).
3. Some spending is encouraged by the gov't in the form of credits to your income taxes owed. This includes improving energy efficiency of your home by adding insulation, installing heat pumps, installing energy efficient windows, and installing solar as examples. The gov't gives each of these a value that counts as a credit towards the income tax you pay. Essentially "Hey, we're counting $5,000 of your solar system to the taxes you owe. That now means you really overpaid, all things considered, so here's money back."

These credits are non-refundable, meaning if you didn't pay the tax to begin with, you won't get any back. It is YOUR tax money, not anyone else's. This is in contrast to refundable tax credits, like the Child Tax Credit, where you get the money even if you're not making enough to pay taxes. This is to encourage people to have kids.

There are frequently other restrictions, like income limits so rich people theoretically don't benefit, etc.

 

[BarracudaBob]

Uh, what? You don't pay income tax? Those tax credits work like this:

1. You go to work, get a paycheck, and have income tax withheld from your paycheck (W-2 withholding).
2. Annually, on or before April 15th, you do the paperwork to reconcile everything. If too much was withheld, you get the extra back as a refund. If you paid too little, you pay the difference (owe taxes).
3. Some spending is encouraged by the gov't in the form of credits to your income taxes owed. This includes improving energy efficiency of your home by adding insulation, installing heat pumps, installing energy efficient windows, and installing solar as examples. The gov't gives each of these a value that counts as a credit towards the income tax you pay. Essentially "Hey, we're counting $5,000 of your solar system to the taxes you owe. That now means you really overpaid, all things considered, so here's money back."

These credits are non-refundable, meaning if you didn't pay the tax to begin with, you won't get any back. It is YOUR tax money, not anyone else's. This is in contrast to refundable tax credits, like the Child Tax Credit, where you get the money even if you're not making enough to pay taxes. This is to encourage people to have kids.

There are frequently other restrictions, like income limits so rich people theoretically don't benefit, etc.

Accurate but the best part is they work for me

 

[Coydon]

Homeowners Rush to Install Solar Panels Before Trump Cuts Tax Credits

With a new incoming presidential administration, is the solar energy tax credit in the hot seat?

www.kiplinger.com

Looks like fear porn:
The article mentions Trump's campaign pledge to enact 20% tariffs, and in the link she sends you to it becomes "up to" 20%

"Both enacted and proposed tariffs could drive up foreign solar panel prices, pricing out potential customers, and thus, their ability to claim the solar tax credit."
Yet, two paragraphs above this she describes how the tariffs have already driven investment in domestic panel development. No mention of what the scalability of that development is, nor of any factors that would hint at how that market would soften any theoretical tariff price increase's effect. Basically, 'we're ignorant so you should be afraid and play it safe by investing your money where we tell you to'.

The questions that should be asked are can domestic production be scaled up to meet demand, does increased foreign ownership address the dependency problem, and what would it take to change that if not?

 

[Rednecktek]

The questions that should be asked are can domestic production be scaled up to meet demand,

Well, first you'd have to HAVE domestic production...

does increased foreign ownership address the dependency problem

It's pretty much all foreign owned so it shouldn't make a difference.

, and what would it take to change that if not?

It would take US production of batteries, silicon panels, and inverters (both on and off grid styles) at a competitave cost to what you can get from china. And I don't mean "assembled in the USA" production either. Sure, you can get a Midnight inverter, but it's going to be 500% more than that UL listed even-usable-in-California Chinese built unit. Especially with grid tie systems where you need the microinverter for each panel or two, the cost difference adds up right quick.

With all the people terrified of tarrifs going up, it's still gonna be a buttload cheaper and more readily available than anything built domestically.

 

[mciholas]

Well, first you'd have to HAVE domestic production...

Well, seems we do, at least for modules:

American Solar Manufacturing Is Back, and It's Big

The success taking place in America is stunning. Companies are investing billions of dollars to produce American-made solar panels in states like Georgia, Ohio, Texas, Washington, South Carolina, and Alabama

seia.org

"After a record Q3, U.S. solar manufacturing has reached a critical threshold. At full capacity, American solar module factories can now produce enough to meet nearly all demand for solar in the U.S."

Mike C.

 

[Coydon]

Well, first you'd have to HAVE domestic production...

Just following the linked narrative, they link to this, but I don't know where that registers on the global scale currently.

It's pretty much all foreign owned so it shouldn't make a difference.

If foreign relations go South, is nationalization a possibility?

 

[OffGridForGood]

Well, seems we do, at least for modules:

American Solar Manufacturing Is Back, and It's Big

The success taking place in America is stunning. Companies are investing billions of dollars to produce American-made solar panels in states like Georgia, Ohio, Texas, Washington, South Carolina, and Alabama

seia.org

"After a record Q3, U.S. solar manufacturing has reached a critical threshold. At full capacity, American solar module factories can now produce enough to meet nearly all demand for solar in the U.S."

Mike C.

N.American Solar manufacturing has been been on the rise for the last few years - not caused by tarriffs - driven by N.American demand and incentives.

 

[DPC]

As it stands today manufacturing costs dictate where things are made we all know that.

If we were to build everything in North America we need in North America we simply do not have the man power to run the factories
Think about your own personal consumption and all the stuff you have buy need and then throw away...

So the solutions are massive automation, or cut the mass consumption and mass production down to size ( make things better than have a longer service life ) or do without I phones and disposable razors...

Think about it once you start to deport millions of low wage workers with 4% unemployment then how are you going to possible make I phones and pick water melons at the same time...

Companies wont like the investments required to improve productivity.
Its cheaper and easy to just not pay people more.
Its expensive as hell to train and pay a living wage, but its expensive as hell to replace all your workers with robots and automated systems.
So you want to export as many low wage jobs over seas as possible to prevent inflation.
Best of all export those jobs to paces where you can dump your waste down the drain and if you kill a few works its no big deal...

 

[DPC]

If foreign relations go South, is nationalization a possibility?

You folks have a shit fit when other countries nationalize parts of their economy ( like the oil industry )
How do you think the Chinese and Japanese will react when you start to force them to sell their assets?
Or will you just expropriate them?

Then you have to worry about economic knock on effects like what happens when foreign countires that sit on US debt and currency as collateral and reserve currency in dollars start to dump them and devalue your currency?
How high can your interest rates go to defend the dollar before it chokes the life out of ( what is Russia at now> 15-20% interest? ,and the Rubel is a joke )

Side note.
I do like the fact Trump wants more sanctions on Russia.
I never thought he has the balls to stand up to Putin.
More of that please!!!! choke the life out of the fuckers so they have to pull out.
Fact it the soviet union collapse in 1991 but an unreported fact is it never stopped the collapse with the dissolution of the country.
The rotten to the core Mafia state still liver and breaths and it trying to reform.
When its over there has to be a breaking up of Russia into its constituent ethnic states and maybe real democracy and freedom can finally take hold.

 

[Chispas]

You folks have a shit fit when other countries nationalize parts of their economy ( like the oil industry )
How do you think the Chinese and Japanese will react when you start to force them to sell their assets?
Or will you just expropriate them?

Then you have to worry about economic knock on effects like what happens when foreign companies that sit on trillions in US assets in dollars start to dump them and devalue your currency?
How high can your interest rates go to defend the dollar before it chokes the life out of ( what is Russia at now> 15-20% interest? ,and the Rubel is a joke )

Yep, China is a proper dictatorship & can subject its citizens to levels of pain that would have US citizens on the streets so if dumping the US debt it holds at fire sale prices causes a global economic meltdown, then they won’t think twice. “For the record Trump DID NOT win a landslide
in the 55 presidential elections in which the popular vote winner became president, 49 of them were won with a margin bigger than Trump’s in 2024.”
He got 50% on a turnout of 65% so a lot of folks didn’t vote & mid term elections tend to punish the incumbent in US politics. Any tariffs on the scale that he promised would lead to a global trade war & probably an economic meltdown. A lot of the threats made regarding trade are relying on foreign countries doing nothing, unlikely in my book.
The trade deficit with the EU is easily explained. Simply put the USA has offshored more of its manufacturing.

 

[cdsolar]

I agree the tax credit should go away, but for all equipment.


I would like that law repealed, but the federal government does not repeal any major laws, at least not often. Prohibition was repealed 91 years ago so its possible.

To be clear, Prohibition (of sale of most alcohol in the USA) was a constitutional amendment (XVIII) which is the only amendment repealed by another amendment (XXI).

 

[Coydon]

You folks have a shit fit when other countries nationalize parts of their economy ( like the oil industry )
How do you think the Chinese and Japanese will react when you start to force them to sell their assets?
Or will you just expropriate them?

Then you have to worry about economic knock on effects like what happens when foreign countires that sit on US debt and currency as collateral and reserve currency in dollars start to dump them and devalue your currency?
How high can your interest rates go to defend the dollar before it chokes the life out of ( what is Russia at now> 15-20% interest? ,and the Rubel is a joke )

Side note.
I do like the fact Trump wants more sanctions on Russia.
I never thought he has the balls to stand up to Putin.
More of that please!!!! choke the life out of the fuckers so they have to pull out.
Fact it the soviet union collapse in 1991 but an unreported fact is it never stopped the collapse with the dissolution of the country.
The rotten to the core Mafia state still liver and breaths and it trying to reform.
When its over there has to be a breaking up of Russia into its constituent ethnic states and maybe real democracy and freedom can finally take hold.

My question was not a political statement about a web of political assumptions and opinions, it was a simple question about basic geopolitical elements directly related to the thread topic. Hopefully people can use better understanding of such to make elaborate speculations in an appropriate forum.

 

[Coydon]

N.American Solar manufacturing has been been on the rise for the last few years - not caused by tarriffs - driven by N.American demand and incentives.

How do those get established as mutually exclusive and respective causal relationships demonstrated or disproven?

 

[Hedges]

Automation handles most electronic assembly. Even through-hole got to be highly automated.
So labor content of electronic products can be pretty low.
Much bigger deal for now is all the unique processes used to refine and make each type of component.

We could keep devices much longer, like 5 to 15 years rather than 12 to 18 months, making the higher cost domestic products affordable.

With PV panels costing around $0.005/kWh (amortized over 20 years) and retail electricity around $0.50/kWh, the low cost of foreign production isn't a necessity.

For a GT PV system, domestic labor and overhead is at least 75% of total cost.

 

[DPC]

My question was not a political statement about a web of political assumptions and opinions, it was a simple question about basic geopolitical elements directly related to the thread topic. Hopefully people can use better understanding of such to make elaborate speculations in an appropriate forum.

No that’s not how people react when you threaten them with a trade war
They look where and how you can hit back