Gasoline made from air

[billvon]

I was HIGHLY skeptical when I saw this one but after reading the article I'm in the "maybe" its legit camp.

Not hard (chemically) at all. Air contains water (H2 and O2) and CO2 (carbon.) With those you can make any hydrocarbon. You start with electrolysis of water into H2 and O2. You combine the H2 and CO2 via the Sabatier reaction to produce methane and water. You can use the methane as-is (natural gas) or you can use the reverse water gas reaction to produce carbon monoxide and hydrogen, a mix called syngas. Syngas can then be used (via the Fischer- Tropsch process) to make longer chain paraffins and olefins, which are liquids and can be used as fuel.

It is also INCREDIBLY energy intensive, and that energy would generally be better used elsewhere.

 

[rogerheflin]

What octane?
What fuel additives?

Maybe for a lawnmower...

One of the early pre-steps in gas to liquids is Methanol which is an octane booster(114 octane). so careful control of the methanol to the final gasoline would control octane. Methanol can run in some vehicles but becomes very difficult to start a cold engine the colder the temps get (ie 50F/10C is going to be difficult--without some real gasoline to get it initially going).

methanol would require larger injectors/carb nozzles and would likely require replacing parts of the fuel system to be methanol compatible.

And is has lower energy per gallon than gasoline.

I wonder if they are making real gasoline (with at least one normal gasoline bigger chain hydrocarbon), or just making methanol and calling it "gasoline" since it can be used similar to gasoline with minor modifications.

On price:
assuming the power is "free", and the device can survive for 10 years(seems unlikely without some sort of service) and is run 1gallon/day capacity that means 365 gallons a year, so 3650 gallons in its life, and the total value of that gas at $4/gallon (high price without tax included) is around $14000, so best guess is the price has to be quite a bit under $14k and last 10 years to even come close to even break even.

 

[didapper]

It would probably be easier and more efficient to grow half a hectare of canola, and turn it into diesel. That should yield something like 500 liters or so, cold pressed - and should result in 400L or more in diesel.

you can take it a step further and use half a hectare of solar panels then.... leave it at that

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

you can take it a step further and use half a hectare of solar panels then.... leave it at that

Maybe in your climate.

 

[didapper]

Maybe in your climate.

what climate gets enough water to grow canola, but not enough sun for solar panels? If it has that little sun, won't plants struggle to grow? I feel that lesser solar output over a large area year-round must have more output than growing, then refining a crop, given a certain area.

 

[Johneb]

These are meant to be home use units, for your average Joe to use in their cars.

Yeah, but I’ll just bet it wouldn’t be that long before you see one of these strapped to the back of an RV.

 

[Supervstech]

It would probably be easier and more efficient to grow half a hectare of canola, and turn it into diesel. That should yield something like 500 liters or so, cold pressed - and should result in 400L or more in diesel.

I think that would take a LOT more water than the gasoline machine...

 

[Tulex]

Yeah, but I’ll just bet it wouldn’t be that long before you see one of these strapped to the back of an RV.

Where is an RV going to get 75kWh of solar a day?

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

what climate gets enough water to grow canola, but not enough sun for solar panels? If it has that little sun, won't plants struggle to grow? I feel that lesser solar output over a large area year-round must have more output than growing, then refining a crop, given a certain area.

Up here in the north for example - plenty of sun and water in summer to grow Canola, no sun at all in winter. You'd be able to store the energy this way in summer for winter use.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

I think that would take a LOT more water than the gasoline machine...

If there's one thing I have plenty of, it's water. It's everywhere and easily accessible.

 

[didapper]

If there's one thing I have plenty of, it's water. It's everywhere and easily accessible.

i'd guess more people have spare sun than water, so while that may work for you, it's not a great general solution (even if all of the refining were as easy as installing solar panels)

 

[HighDesertOffgrid]

OK and move the freight on one gallon of gasoline per day and see how that goes.
Increase the scale and Tesla Semi will haul the freight far more efficiently with direct use of the solar power.

You only need the complete electrical infrastructure for around 1B truck-miles per day for cross country freight. Best of luck with that infrastructure bill.

 

[ASword]

So the total efficiency is 10-15% (given 75kW to produce a gallon of gas which is about 33.7kW, and then 20-40% ICE efficiency). Keep in mind though that ICE cars only get the high end of that efficiency range with careful octane control and additives, so 30% is probably optimistic. Plus ICE vehicles require oil for lubricants which this device won't make, and they have a lot of parts which fail over time. And gasoline needs additives or else it goes bad after a few months. Now, EVs have their own issues but generally their maintenance is lower and their efficiency is higher. So if you want to have a bunch of solar panels to provide self-reliant mobility, an EV is probably the better choice.

For stationary energy storage there are probably better options too, especially taking climate and geo into account. If you have a hill, a lot of land, and water, pumped hydro could be interesting. Failing that ... maybe make propane instead? Easier to contain than hydrogen, lasts basically forever, lots of existing equipment (especially in non-mobile form).

 

[Enketchum]

Maybe for the post apocalyptic hobbiest who wants to keep their corvette running.

 

[time2roll]

You only need the complete electrical infrastructure for around 1B truck-miles per day for cross country freight. Best of luck with that infrastructure bill.

The phase in will be 30 years paid by the trucking companies for facilities and the utilities to increase service.
Trucking companies' participation will be paid with fuel savings. Utility upgrades paid from new revenue.
Has already started as testing projects. BTW driverless trucking is already in motion too.

The conversion of air to fuel is not really going anywhere right now.

 

[kc130up]

Yikes.
View attachment 305149

That is high energy requirement, but its a start. Solar cells didn't start out as good as they are now.

 

[cs1234]

Where is an RV going to get 75kWh of solar a day?

Spoiler: Just keep adding a few more on.

 

[DPC]

both gasses must be fed into a reactor between 200-300c and 50-100bar with the presence of a catalyst (Cu/ZnO/AI2O3) accordingly to MetaAI

Plant a potato get a potato..

What process?
How much does it cost....

 

[robbob2112]

Well, think about it and do the calculations.... energy is energy..... how many joules of energy are in a gallon of gas... that energy has to be stored in the chemical bonds between the carbon and hydrogen....... you put it together and take it apart... you can calculate the energy required to do is and see how efficient the process is.

Note, it has been to many years for me to do the math.

 

[Zwy]

It would probably be easier and more efficient to grow half a hectare of canola, and turn it into diesel. That should yield something like 500 liters or so, cold pressed - and should result in 400L or more in diesel.

That's only about 100 gallons of diesel here......

There is risk involved with any agriculture, bad weather, droughts, insects, disease.

One think about using such a device, it should produce if there is enough electricity. Maintenance could be costly.

 

[cs1234]

Note, it has been to many years for me to do the math.

It would take me too many years to do the math.

 

[cs1234]

Maintenance could be costly.

This is the certainly the crux of the problem. I can't imagine them possibly making the device reliable enough to justify purchasing one to make fuel if cost effectiveness is even remotely a concern. Who knows though, maybe some future economics of scale could bring it down to where it's cheap enough to work out over its lifetime. It probably just needs millions of buyers making gasoline in their homes to bring those costs down.

 

[eppich8479]

Energy generally goes from high to low. So the only way i could imagine this works is by compressing the gas and water to super critical states. Its not a system i would want running near my home, by unskilled people.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Energy generally goes from high to low. So the only way i could imagine this works is by compressing the gas and water to super critical states. Its not a system i would want running near my home, by unskilled people.

You can't compress water. Water is a liquid and liquids aren't compressible

 

[DPC]

You can't compress water. Water is a liquid and liquids aren't compressible

In higher dimensions all the rules change