Generator gods, purchase advice sought.

[AHTrimble]

Honda is a good pick.. probably one of the best generators made. The different models in the same wattage are usually the result of one being a normal generator and the other being an inverter type.

Normal generators are more reliable, inverters put out a much cleaner power and use less energy doing it.

If you plan to use a generator to charge the battery, and it's only for emergency use, then you want to store your battery at only a 50% charge, and store it in a cold, but not freezing, space.

Of more concern is what inverter you plant to use to convert the battery power to household current. Morningstar makes very good products.. I can't speak for the chargeverter because it hasn't been out long enough to get a reputation yet.

You have a good plan..

Honda is ok...but extremely expensive compared to other options such as Champion.
I can buy two Champions for the price of one Honda with money left over.
I have run an inverter style Champion and and non-inverter style. The non-inverter has over 1,000 hours, and the inverter has almost 2,000 hours. The inverter has been used in show, rain, wind storms and generally abused. And it is still working as needed. My bad for abusing it...I was building a house at the time and didn't expect it to survive the 18 months...but it did and I am smiling for it.
I was very, very careful breaking them in and I used Lucas Oil Products 10063 Engine Break-In Oil Additive - Plus Zinc.

 

[time2roll]

Even aviation gas? Seems extremely dangerous to me.

I believe aviation gasoline still has tetra-ethyl-lead. Yes that seems dangerous.

 

[Nan_wpg]

Even aviation gas? Seems extremely dangerous to me.

We can’t buy aviation gas. It’s just easier to buy trufuel. Or aspen. Or vp fuel.

 

[MurphyGuy]

In my province all gasoline has to contain ethanol. (Other than the canned stuff). Anything at the pump has ethanol.

I use the canned stuff in my snowblower, and for storage in everything else

Seriously? What area are you in? You should be able to find something called "Rec Fuel" or "Recreational fuel". Things like snow blowers, snowmobiles, dirt bikes, and a bunch of other things, will not run properly on the ethanol fuel. Rec Fuel is not at every gas station, but many of them do have it.

I know our local Walmart has it... unfortunately it's a long drive for me.. and I know that the propane dealer who sells off-road diesel fuel also has rec fuel for gasoline engines.

Have you checked around? Try calling up your local sports/atv/snowmobile dealer and ask them if anyone sells rec fuel around..

 

[Nan_wpg]

Seriously? What area are you in? You should be able to find something called "Rec Fuel" or "Recreational fuel". Things like snow blowers, snowmobiles, dirt bikes, and a bunch of other things, will not run properly on the ethanol fuel. Rec Fuel is not at every gas station, but many of them do have it.

I know our local Walmart has it... unfortunately it's a long drive for me.. and I know that the propane dealer who sells off-road diesel fuel also has rec fuel for gasoline engines.

Have you checked around? Try calling up your local sports/atv/snowmobile dealer and ask them if anyone sells rec fuel around..

I’m in Manitoba Canada. As of Jan 2022 all retail pump fuel has to have ethanol in it.

I never looked into “av gas”.

as I said I use some type of canned fuel. I use it exclusively in my snowblower, weed trimmer, and chainsaw. It’s not that expensive given the low, and sometimes no usage.

for my mower I use pump fuel with stabil, and seafoam in it. Rotated every 30 days. At the end of the season I drain the pump gas, and fill up with canned fuel, and run it for a few minutes.

ethanol is horrible on small engines (carbs).

trufuel is good for 2 years once opened (supposedly) I had some in my chainsaw prior to Covid. We had some strict lockdowns and we couldn’t use our cabins (There was also some family cabin drama).

my chainsaw sat unused for 2-1/2 years with already opened trufuel in it. (Likely 3 years opened)

chainsaw started right up. I’ll go through maybe 16 bucks worth of chainsaw fuel. Well worth the price of no carb issues.

 

[AHTrimble]

I believe aviation gasoline still has tetra-ethyl-lead. Yes that seems dangerous.

UL94

 

[time2roll]

Due to the small total market for avgas and limited fueling infrastructure at most of the country’s more than 13,000 airports, leaded avgas is usually the only fuel that is available to operators of all gasoline-powered aircraft, including operators of the many small aircraft that do not require high-octane fuel.

https://www.cityofwatsonville.org/D...Synopsis-Lead-in-AVGS-Study-Consensus-Jan2021

 

[dcg9381]

I believe aviation gasoline still has tetra-ethyl-lead. Yes that seems dangerous.

Well, it's been around for a long time and many of us pilots pump it just like pump gas. No, you probably don't want long time skin exposure, but that's true of any fuel. No ethanol. Yes lead. It's also 100 octane, it generally works in most small engine motors just fine (per my experience) - but you don't want it in anything EFI.

We can’t buy aviation gas. It’s just easier to buy trufuel. Or aspen. Or vp fuel.

Where do you live that you don't have a local general aviation airport? I'm not saying that you don't have more available fuels, but most small airports have self-service, it's just that most people don't know.

 

[Nan_wpg]

Well, it's been around for a long time and many of us pilots pump it just like pump gas. No, you probably don't want long time skin exposure, but that's true of any fuel. No ethanol. Yes lead. It's also 100 octane, it generally works in most small engine motors just fine (per my experience) - but you don't want it in anything EFI.



Where do you live that you don't have a local general aviation airport? I'm not saying that you don't have more available fuels, but most small airports have self-service, it's just that most people don't know.

assuming it,we’re,available to me, our airport is a fair distance from my house. Home Depot (trufuel) is 10 minutes from my house (5 if I don’t get stuck at a red light.

last winter (one of the heaviest snowfalls on record) I went through 3 cans. (90 bucks). Typically I’ll go through 1, and sometimes none.

chainsaw I think I spent 9 bucks over 2 years on the stuff.

once I factor in my travel time to get the av fuel (assuming I can get it) it’s just not worth the,drive. My time has a value to it, not to mention burning,fuel to get the fuel, wear and tear on vehicle, etc.

plus while I’m at Home Depot I can have a look around.

 

[mvonw]

I ran a Honda 6500is for 15 years almost every day with only plugs, oil, and filter changes. Its still runs great, but my solar system has made it lonely...

 

[Vigo]

LOL at family issues. Absolutely 100% believable. There is no limit to what some parents will do to allow their kids to continue to suck. Which is a very circular chiken and egg sort of thing, when you think about it.

Anywho, i don't personally see a need to go any bigger on a new generator since a ~2000w genny will take <3hrs to charge a 5kwh battery from full to empty, and the battery itself recommends you take at least 2 hours anyway. So you are already well within a 1hr margin of the 'ideal' amount of power for battery charging and if you aren't starting from 0% soc that <1hr shrinks to a difference of 'some minutes'. I don't see a need to go bigger, or even to replace yours unless you are concerned about its reliability. It's already basically a bullseye for this application.

The chargeverter is also slight overkill for the battery and generator combo, but it is a nice unit and could possibly get used to its full potential somewhere else down the line, so im not against it, it's just more than necessary.

I have used i think a total of 5 generators so far during my 1yr of being off-grid. I already owned 3 (tiny 700w inverter gen, old 5kw noisy bastard, 4kw onan in my RV) and bought 2 since then ($220 chinese 1700w inverter gen because the 700w died, and 3500w Champion because i hated the noise of the 5k and it was becoming too cantankerous).

I've also done almost exclusively 'double conversion' charging such as what a Chargeverter does (ac/gen to dc/batt to ac/inverter) with my generators because AC bypass is highly irritating when you're powering a whole house. I have done it with an accumulation of <600w power supplies set to different voltage levels. This lets me do something similar to what offgridinthecity is trying to do with his 8 chargers. For me I get a max of about 2700w from the PSUs running off the 3500w generator.

I used to do a smaller amount of charging off the 1700w inverter gen but i have not used it much lately since in general the only reason i need to use the Gen/PSUs is to run AC or do laundry when its late or solar conditions are poor, and the 1700w cannot support much of an AC or Drier duty cycle so it sits unused most of the time. I intend to use it with the RV while i figure out how to modify the Onan to run lower rpm with an external regulator to serve as a ~2kw source for the PSUs in the RV, and never do 'ac bypass' in there again, either!

 

[Nan_wpg]

LOL at family issues. Absolutely 100% believable. There is no limit to what some parents will do to allow their kids to continue to suck. Which is a very circular chiken and egg sort of thing, when you think about it.

Anywho, i don't personally see a need to go any bigger on a new generator since a ~2000w genny will take <3hrs to charge a 5kwh battery from full to empty, and the battery itself recommends you take at least 2 hours anyway. So you are already well within a 1hr margin of the 'ideal' amount of power for battery charging and if you aren't starting from 0% soc that <1hr shrinks to a difference of 'some minutes'. I don't see a need to go bigger, or even to replace yours unless you are concerned about its reliability. It's already basically a bullseye for this application.

The chargeverter is also slight overkill for the battery and generator combo, but it is a nice unit and could possibly get used to its full potential somewhere else down the line, so im not against it, it's just more than necessary.

I have used i think a total of 5 generators so far during my 1yr of being off-grid. I already owned 3 (tiny 700w inverter gen, old 5kw noisy bastard, 4kw onan in my RV) and bought 2 since then ($220 chinese 1700w inverter gen because the 700w died, and 3500w Champion because i hated the noise of the 5k and it was becoming too cantankerous).

I've also done almost exclusively 'double conversion' charging such as what a Chargeverter does (ac/gen to dc/batt to ac/inverter) with my generators because AC bypass is highly irritating when you're powering a whole house. I have done it with an accumulation of <600w power supplies set to different voltage levels. This lets me do something similar to what offgridinthecity is trying to do with his 8 chargers. For me I get a max of about 2700w from the PSUs running off the 3500w generator.

I used to do a smaller amount of charging off the 1700w inverter gen but i have not used it much lately since in general the only reason i need to use the Gen/PSUs is to run AC or do laundry when its late or solar conditions are poor, and the 1700w cannot support much of an AC or Drier duty cycle so it sits unused most of the time. I intend to use it with the RV while i figure out how to modify the Onan to run lower rpm with an external regulator to serve as a ~2kw source for the PSUs in the RV, and never do 'ac bypass' in there again, either!

I think I’m going to,buy the champion 4650/3650 genny. Local store is clearing them out.
the Honda is 15 years old. And I want a little more power. Plus it’s MY genny so if the other one calf’s out BIL can’t use mine. He will have to pony up to replace.

he runs the gen sometimes 10,hours a day in the winter. of course he won’t have money to replace it so mommy will buy him a new genny.
as for pass through charging we’re not talking huge house loads. Some lights, Tv and a cpap. Plus we can always put the inverter to charge only during the day and just charge the battery

 

[Koldsimer]

FWIW, i own the predator 8750 inverter generator and it has performed flawlessly. It produces very clean power, which my Schneider is very picky about qualifying AC. It's low cost and solid reviews for several years now steered me in that direction. Has some nice features like esc throttle which adjusts engine rpm for varying loads.

My brother in law bought the 9K predator super quiet and it is a fully enclosed design (as opposed to open frame) and it is significantly quieter than my 8750. It has performed well for him and we used it to build a 2500sq ft house before power was available at the site. No issues at all.

I also have a champion 4k generator that worked well until the weld at the header broke near the 50hr mark. Tough to fix but it's welded up and works fine.

As others have mentioned, run ethanol free fuel to avoid issues later. I'm lucky to live near a large lake that is a major fishing destination, so ethanol free fuels are available at many gas stations. I used to repair small engines for a living and believe me, the ethanol free fuel is worth every additional penny!

Whatever you get, and this is especially important for the honda clone engines that predator and champion uses, change the oil after 5 hours and then another at the 10hr mark. Regular recommended intervals after that is fine. The amount of fine metal shavings in those first couple oil changes can be scary! Some will say this is overkill, and it may be, but i like the piece of mind knowing it was broken in properly and has high quality, fresh oil while the rings are seating etc. Oil is always cheaper than an engine rebuild or replacement! Aftermarket magnetic drain plug is also a good option for engine longevity.

If money isn't a concern, buy the Honda. I still think they make excellent gennys that give you the best shot of many years of trouble free ownership. Just so damn expensive!

 

[Nan_wpg]

FWIW, i own the predator 8750 inverter generator and it has performed flawlessly. It produces very clean power, which my Schneider is very picky about qualifying AC. It's low cost and solid reviews for several years now steered me in that direction. Has some nice features like esc throttle which adjusts engine rpm for varying loads.

My brother in law bought the 9K predator super quiet and it is a fully enclosed design (as opposed to open frame) and it is significantly quieter than my 8750. It has performed well for him and we used it to build a 2500sq ft house before power was available at the site. No issues at all.

I also have a champion 4k generator that worked well until the weld at the header broke near the 50hr mark. Tough to fix but it's welded up and works fine.

As others have mentioned, run ethanol free fuel to avoid issues later. I'm lucky to live near a large lake that is a major fishing destination, so ethanol free fuels are available at many gas stations. I used to repair small engines for a living and believe me, the ethanol free fuel is worth every additional penny!

Whatever you get, and this is especially important for the honda clone engines that predator and champion uses, change the oil after 5 hours and then another at the 10hr mark. Regular recommended intervals after that is fine. The amount of fine metal shavings in those first couple oil changes can be scary! Some will say this is overkill, and it may be, but i like the piece of mind knowing it was broken in properly and has high quality, fresh oil while the rings are seating etc. Oil is always cheaper than an engine rebuild or replacement! Aftermarket magnetic drain plug is also a good option for engine longevity.

If money isn't a concern, buy the Honda. I still think they make excellent gennys that give you the best shot of many years of trouble free ownership. Just so damn expensive!

I’m in Canada so buying a predator requires a road trip. Champion I can get local.

oil is cheaper than engines. I’m anal about oil changes so not a problem.

The plan is to use the genny as a back up to the charge controller.

 

[Koldsimer]

oil is cheaper than engines. I’m anal about oil changes so not a problem.

Aint that the truth. I have fixed countless small engines that are running poorly or not running at all. One of the first questions i ask is when was the last time you changed the oil? Most people get this bewildered look and say they are not sure. For some reason, lots of people think the oil in their lawnmower lasts forever. And to be fair, i've seen lots of Tecumseh and B+S engines with seasons old oil that's far under registering on the dipstick and they still run.... go figure- air cooled, simple, single cylinder engines can take a lot of abuse!

That being said, i never let a small engine get over 100 hours before i change the oil.

 

[Symbioquine]

My brother in law bought the 9K predator super quiet and it is a fully enclosed design

I have a DuroMAX XP9000iH (actually two of them now) which is almost an exact clone of that Predator 9K super quiet and I'm overall fairly pleased with it - some caveats noted in this thread: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/living-with-the-duromax-xp9000ih.55122/

I'd second the recommendation for Champion, except that they don't make a Dual fuel split phase inverter generator as large as I need. (last I checked)

 

[Nan_wpg]

Aint that the truth. I have fixed countless small engines that are running poorly or not running at all. One of the first questions i ask is when was the last time you changed the oil? Most people get this bewildered look and say they are not sure. For some reason, lots of people think the oil in their lawnmower lasts forever. And to be fair, i've seen lots of Tecumseh and B+S engines with seasons old oil that's far under registering on the dipstick and they still run.... go figure- air cooled, simple, single cylinder engines can take a lot of abuse!

That being said, i never let a small engine get over 100 hours before i change the oil.

I,dunno. I’m anal about oil changes, what type of fuel I use.

a co worker has a 20,year old mower he claims never changed oil or plugs. Stores it outside. Always starts and still runs. don’t know if I believe him

 

[Nan_wpg]

I have a DuroMAX XP9000iH (actually two of them now) which is almost an exact clone of that Predator 9K super quiet and I'm overall fairly pleased with it - some caveats noted in this thread: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/living-with-the-duromax-xp9000ih.55122/

I'd second the recommendation for Champion, except that they don't make a Dual fuel split phase inverter generator as large as I need. (last I checked)

I wanted dual fuel but the single fuel is on for a great price. Not too worried as I use canned fuel. Plus champion,has a carb drain so no gumming

 

[Henderson]

Greetings generator gods.

a new generator purchase is on the books. I’m partial (but open to anything) to Honda simply for the fact our current genny (2000eu) has served us well for 15 years, running daily 7 days a week during cabin season , 3 hrs in the summer, and up to 7 hours late fall.

I’m entertaining a predator, but I live in Canada, so it’s a minimum 4 hour round trip for warranty, etc.

the current use of the generator is for our off grid cabin. I’m talking actual off grid. There is no grid, no plumbing. We’re talking 2 hours out of the city, off the highway, up a road, and onto a boat.

genny is mainly at night for lights, Tv , cell booster, and soon to be starlink. We also charge a smaller battery pack to power my c pap, and 12v shower. It’s actually quite wasteful.

for now the goal is to build a “solar generator” consisting of a trophy 48v, 100A battery, Morningstar inverter, and the new chargeverter from eq4. It has the ability to dial in the amperage, so I can match it properly to the generator.

the idea is instead of running the genny each and every night, we start off with a full battery. Then every 3-7 days charge it back up. Eventually I’ll add a charge controller. But,for now no array.

trophy recommends charging “up to” 50A. Less is better.

as I said I like Honda. Not sure if I should stick in the 2200 range, or bump up to the 3000, or 3200. I looked at the 7000i. Seems like a bit overkill for my needs. It has 240, but I’m not sure if it’s an advantage for my needs or not.

I’m a bit confused with Hondas 3000 range. They offer 3 models. Very similar, but the new 3200 has a lower running wattage than the older 3000.

so, gods of generation what say you?

honda? Yes? No? how big? 240?

noise isn’t a deal breaker but as a courtesy to neighbors I’d like quiet (although they won’t have to put up with nightly generator usage).

I know there’s not so apparent differences with the Hondas, I.e some are carb’d, some have a fuel pump. Not sure if any have EFI. The new 3200 manual talks,about timing belts. Yikes. Our old 2000 has had oil changes, spark plug changes, and I think a couple pull strings. That’s it.

in a nutshell I need up to 50A of charging. I want reliable, somewhat quiet, and something that makes sense in Terms of peak efficiency, fuel economy, etc.

looking for that “sweet spot”. As for money, I’ll gladly spend what I need to, but dont Like spending more than I have to.

Hondas are indeed great generators but have you also considered the Genmax dual fuel inverter generators? They don't have the high-end build quality of a Honda but they seem to be good generators once you take care of them. Plus, they're a fraction of the cost of a Honda and they seem reasonably good on fuel consumption as well. If I'm not mistaken, I think Genmax makes the Duromax XP9000iH dual fuel genny as well.

 

[Nan_wpg]

Hondas are indeed great generators but have you also considered the Genmax dual fuel inverter generators? They don't have the high-end build quality of a Honda but they seem to be good generators once you take care of them. Plus, they're a fraction of the cost of a Honda and they seem reasonably good on fuel consumption as well. If I'm not mistaken, I think Genmax makes the Duromax XP9000iH dual fuel genny as well.

It’s either Honda or champion for me. I’m in Canada so parts and service is a thing for me and genmax isn’t a big name here.