Generator gods, purchase advice sought.

[Vigo]

LOL at family issues. Absolutely 100% believable. There is no limit to what some parents will do to allow their kids to continue to suck. Which is a very circular chiken and egg sort of thing, when you think about it.

Anywho, i don't personally see a need to go any bigger on a new generator since a ~2000w genny will take <3hrs to charge a 5kwh battery from full to empty, and the battery itself recommends you take at least 2 hours anyway. So you are already well within a 1hr margin of the 'ideal' amount of power for battery charging and if you aren't starting from 0% soc that <1hr shrinks to a difference of 'some minutes'. I don't see a need to go bigger, or even to replace yours unless you are concerned about its reliability. It's already basically a bullseye for this application.

The chargeverter is also slight overkill for the battery and generator combo, but it is a nice unit and could possibly get used to its full potential somewhere else down the line, so im not against it, it's just more than necessary.

I have used i think a total of 5 generators so far during my 1yr of being off-grid. I already owned 3 (tiny 700w inverter gen, old 5kw noisy bastard, 4kw onan in my RV) and bought 2 since then ($220 chinese 1700w inverter gen because the 700w died, and 3500w Champion because i hated the noise of the 5k and it was becoming too cantankerous).

I've also done almost exclusively 'double conversion' charging such as what a Chargeverter does (ac/gen to dc/batt to ac/inverter) with my generators because AC bypass is highly irritating when you're powering a whole house. I have done it with an accumulation of <600w power supplies set to different voltage levels. This lets me do something similar to what offgridinthecity is trying to do with his 8 chargers. For me I get a max of about 2700w from the PSUs running off the 3500w generator.

I used to do a smaller amount of charging off the 1700w inverter gen but i have not used it much lately since in general the only reason i need to use the Gen/PSUs is to run AC or do laundry when its late or solar conditions are poor, and the 1700w cannot support much of an AC or Drier duty cycle so it sits unused most of the time. I intend to use it with the RV while i figure out how to modify the Onan to run lower rpm with an external regulator to serve as a ~2kw source for the PSUs in the RV, and never do 'ac bypass' in there again, either!

 

[Nan_wpg]

LOL at family issues. Absolutely 100% believable. There is no limit to what some parents will do to allow their kids to continue to suck. Which is a very circular chiken and egg sort of thing, when you think about it.

Anywho, i don't personally see a need to go any bigger on a new generator since a ~2000w genny will take <3hrs to charge a 5kwh battery from full to empty, and the battery itself recommends you take at least 2 hours anyway. So you are already well within a 1hr margin of the 'ideal' amount of power for battery charging and if you aren't starting from 0% soc that <1hr shrinks to a difference of 'some minutes'. I don't see a need to go bigger, or even to replace yours unless you are concerned about its reliability. It's already basically a bullseye for this application.

The chargeverter is also slight overkill for the battery and generator combo, but it is a nice unit and could possibly get used to its full potential somewhere else down the line, so im not against it, it's just more than necessary.

I have used i think a total of 5 generators so far during my 1yr of being off-grid. I already owned 3 (tiny 700w inverter gen, old 5kw noisy bastard, 4kw onan in my RV) and bought 2 since then ($220 chinese 1700w inverter gen because the 700w died, and 3500w Champion because i hated the noise of the 5k and it was becoming too cantankerous).

I've also done almost exclusively 'double conversion' charging such as what a Chargeverter does (ac/gen to dc/batt to ac/inverter) with my generators because AC bypass is highly irritating when you're powering a whole house. I have done it with an accumulation of <600w power supplies set to different voltage levels. This lets me do something similar to what offgridinthecity is trying to do with his 8 chargers. For me I get a max of about 2700w from the PSUs running off the 3500w generator.

I used to do a smaller amount of charging off the 1700w inverter gen but i have not used it much lately since in general the only reason i need to use the Gen/PSUs is to run AC or do laundry when its late or solar conditions are poor, and the 1700w cannot support much of an AC or Drier duty cycle so it sits unused most of the time. I intend to use it with the RV while i figure out how to modify the Onan to run lower rpm with an external regulator to serve as a ~2kw source for the PSUs in the RV, and never do 'ac bypass' in there again, either!

I think I’m going to,buy the champion 4650/3650 genny. Local store is clearing them out.
the Honda is 15 years old. And I want a little more power. Plus it’s MY genny so if the other one calf’s out BIL can’t use mine. He will have to pony up to replace.

he runs the gen sometimes 10,hours a day in the winter. of course he won’t have money to replace it so mommy will buy him a new genny.
as for pass through charging we’re not talking huge house loads. Some lights, Tv and a cpap. Plus we can always put the inverter to charge only during the day and just charge the battery

 

[Koldsimer]

FWIW, i own the predator 8750 inverter generator and it has performed flawlessly. It produces very clean power, which my Schneider is very picky about qualifying AC. It's low cost and solid reviews for several years now steered me in that direction. Has some nice features like esc throttle which adjusts engine rpm for varying loads.

My brother in law bought the 9K predator super quiet and it is a fully enclosed design (as opposed to open frame) and it is significantly quieter than my 8750. It has performed well for him and we used it to build a 2500sq ft house before power was available at the site. No issues at all.

I also have a champion 4k generator that worked well until the weld at the header broke near the 50hr mark. Tough to fix but it's welded up and works fine.

As others have mentioned, run ethanol free fuel to avoid issues later. I'm lucky to live near a large lake that is a major fishing destination, so ethanol free fuels are available at many gas stations. I used to repair small engines for a living and believe me, the ethanol free fuel is worth every additional penny!

Whatever you get, and this is especially important for the honda clone engines that predator and champion uses, change the oil after 5 hours and then another at the 10hr mark. Regular recommended intervals after that is fine. The amount of fine metal shavings in those first couple oil changes can be scary! Some will say this is overkill, and it may be, but i like the piece of mind knowing it was broken in properly and has high quality, fresh oil while the rings are seating etc. Oil is always cheaper than an engine rebuild or replacement! Aftermarket magnetic drain plug is also a good option for engine longevity.

If money isn't a concern, buy the Honda. I still think they make excellent gennys that give you the best shot of many years of trouble free ownership. Just so damn expensive!

 

[Nan_wpg]

FWIW, i own the predator 8750 inverter generator and it has performed flawlessly. It produces very clean power, which my Schneider is very picky about qualifying AC. It's low cost and solid reviews for several years now steered me in that direction. Has some nice features like esc throttle which adjusts engine rpm for varying loads.

My brother in law bought the 9K predator super quiet and it is a fully enclosed design (as opposed to open frame) and it is significantly quieter than my 8750. It has performed well for him and we used it to build a 2500sq ft house before power was available at the site. No issues at all.

I also have a champion 4k generator that worked well until the weld at the header broke near the 50hr mark. Tough to fix but it's welded up and works fine.

As others have mentioned, run ethanol free fuel to avoid issues later. I'm lucky to live near a large lake that is a major fishing destination, so ethanol free fuels are available at many gas stations. I used to repair small engines for a living and believe me, the ethanol free fuel is worth every additional penny!

Whatever you get, and this is especially important for the honda clone engines that predator and champion uses, change the oil after 5 hours and then another at the 10hr mark. Regular recommended intervals after that is fine. The amount of fine metal shavings in those first couple oil changes can be scary! Some will say this is overkill, and it may be, but i like the piece of mind knowing it was broken in properly and has high quality, fresh oil while the rings are seating etc. Oil is always cheaper than an engine rebuild or replacement! Aftermarket magnetic drain plug is also a good option for engine longevity.

If money isn't a concern, buy the Honda. I still think they make excellent gennys that give you the best shot of many years of trouble free ownership. Just so damn expensive!

I’m in Canada so buying a predator requires a road trip. Champion I can get local.

oil is cheaper than engines. I’m anal about oil changes so not a problem.

The plan is to use the genny as a back up to the charge controller.

 

[Koldsimer]

oil is cheaper than engines. I’m anal about oil changes so not a problem.

Aint that the truth. I have fixed countless small engines that are running poorly or not running at all. One of the first questions i ask is when was the last time you changed the oil? Most people get this bewildered look and say they are not sure. For some reason, lots of people think the oil in their lawnmower lasts forever. And to be fair, i've seen lots of Tecumseh and B+S engines with seasons old oil that's far under registering on the dipstick and they still run.... go figure- air cooled, simple, single cylinder engines can take a lot of abuse!

That being said, i never let a small engine get over 100 hours before i change the oil.

 

[Symbioquine]

My brother in law bought the 9K predator super quiet and it is a fully enclosed design

I have a DuroMAX XP9000iH (actually two of them now) which is almost an exact clone of that Predator 9K super quiet and I'm overall fairly pleased with it - some caveats noted in this thread: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/living-with-the-duromax-xp9000ih.55122/

I'd second the recommendation for Champion, except that they don't make a Dual fuel split phase inverter generator as large as I need. (last I checked)

 

[Nan_wpg]

Aint that the truth. I have fixed countless small engines that are running poorly or not running at all. One of the first questions i ask is when was the last time you changed the oil? Most people get this bewildered look and say they are not sure. For some reason, lots of people think the oil in their lawnmower lasts forever. And to be fair, i've seen lots of Tecumseh and B+S engines with seasons old oil that's far under registering on the dipstick and they still run.... go figure- air cooled, simple, single cylinder engines can take a lot of abuse!

That being said, i never let a small engine get over 100 hours before i change the oil.

I,dunno. I’m anal about oil changes, what type of fuel I use.

a co worker has a 20,year old mower he claims never changed oil or plugs. Stores it outside. Always starts and still runs. don’t know if I believe him

 

[Nan_wpg]

I have a DuroMAX XP9000iH (actually two of them now) which is almost an exact clone of that Predator 9K super quiet and I'm overall fairly pleased with it - some caveats noted in this thread: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/living-with-the-duromax-xp9000ih.55122/

I'd second the recommendation for Champion, except that they don't make a Dual fuel split phase inverter generator as large as I need. (last I checked)

I wanted dual fuel but the single fuel is on for a great price. Not too worried as I use canned fuel. Plus champion,has a carb drain so no gumming

 

[Henderson]

Greetings generator gods.

a new generator purchase is on the books. I’m partial (but open to anything) to Honda simply for the fact our current genny (2000eu) has served us well for 15 years, running daily 7 days a week during cabin season , 3 hrs in the summer, and up to 7 hours late fall.

I’m entertaining a predator, but I live in Canada, so it’s a minimum 4 hour round trip for warranty, etc.

the current use of the generator is for our off grid cabin. I’m talking actual off grid. There is no grid, no plumbing. We’re talking 2 hours out of the city, off the highway, up a road, and onto a boat.

genny is mainly at night for lights, Tv , cell booster, and soon to be starlink. We also charge a smaller battery pack to power my c pap, and 12v shower. It’s actually quite wasteful.

for now the goal is to build a “solar generator” consisting of a trophy 48v, 100A battery, Morningstar inverter, and the new chargeverter from eq4. It has the ability to dial in the amperage, so I can match it properly to the generator.

the idea is instead of running the genny each and every night, we start off with a full battery. Then every 3-7 days charge it back up. Eventually I’ll add a charge controller. But,for now no array.

trophy recommends charging “up to” 50A. Less is better.

as I said I like Honda. Not sure if I should stick in the 2200 range, or bump up to the 3000, or 3200. I looked at the 7000i. Seems like a bit overkill for my needs. It has 240, but I’m not sure if it’s an advantage for my needs or not.

I’m a bit confused with Hondas 3000 range. They offer 3 models. Very similar, but the new 3200 has a lower running wattage than the older 3000.

so, gods of generation what say you?

honda? Yes? No? how big? 240?

noise isn’t a deal breaker but as a courtesy to neighbors I’d like quiet (although they won’t have to put up with nightly generator usage).

I know there’s not so apparent differences with the Hondas, I.e some are carb’d, some have a fuel pump. Not sure if any have EFI. The new 3200 manual talks,about timing belts. Yikes. Our old 2000 has had oil changes, spark plug changes, and I think a couple pull strings. That’s it.

in a nutshell I need up to 50A of charging. I want reliable, somewhat quiet, and something that makes sense in Terms of peak efficiency, fuel economy, etc.

looking for that “sweet spot”. As for money, I’ll gladly spend what I need to, but dont Like spending more than I have to.

Hondas are indeed great generators but have you also considered the Genmax dual fuel inverter generators? They don't have the high-end build quality of a Honda but they seem to be good generators once you take care of them. Plus, they're a fraction of the cost of a Honda and they seem reasonably good on fuel consumption as well. If I'm not mistaken, I think Genmax makes the Duromax XP9000iH dual fuel genny as well.

 

[Nan_wpg]

Hondas are indeed great generators but have you also considered the Genmax dual fuel inverter generators? They don't have the high-end build quality of a Honda but they seem to be good generators once you take care of them. Plus, they're a fraction of the cost of a Honda and they seem reasonably good on fuel consumption as well. If I'm not mistaken, I think Genmax makes the Duromax XP9000iH dual fuel genny as well.

It’s either Honda or champion for me. I’m in Canada so parts and service is a thing for me and genmax isn’t a big name here.

 

[Henderson]

It’s either Honda or champion for me. I’m in Canada so parts and service is a thing for me and genmax isn’t a big name here.

Champions are great also. I have one and it works great. i have the dual fuel 4500W model. My only complaint with them is that they dont make any dual fuel inverter models over 4500w. If you want something larger that's dual fuel from Champion, you're looking at the non-inverter types and those usually generate power that has a high THD so the power is quite dirty.

 

[Steve_S]

It’s either Honda or champion for me. I’m in Canada so parts and service is a thing for me and genmax isn’t a big name here.

Just as a point of interest, as I am a fellow Canuck in Ontario. I have always used Pump Gas which includes 10% Ethanol in my Generators over the past 15 Years, same with other gear like Lawn Tractors etc and NEVER EVER Had a Fuel Related problem. When Ethanol first appeared I did have some issues with "some" equipment and those issues were mostly related to incompatible gaskets (once changed no more leaks) but that's pretty much it. FYI, I also was a Hot Rodder running 400HP Small Blocks and even my 900HP 402 Roller on Premium Pump Gas (with ethanol) and never an issue.

I do regular oil changes with my Champion Gensets @ 50 hours run time approximately and after the first Regular Oil Break-in I switch to Pure Synthetic 0W30 and never look back. Note the Regular Oil will be pretty dark at 50 Hours whereas the Synthetic is still see-through but browning by 50hrs.

 

[Vigo]

change the oil after 5 hours and then another at the 10hr mark. Regular recommended intervals after that is fine. The amount of fine metal shavings in those first couple oil changes can be scary! Some will say this is overkill

I go even further.. I keep changing the oil with 5-10 minutes run time in between, until it comes back clean. So this makes my first 'commissioning' (makes it sound more complicated than it is) of a new small engine take about an hour. It's crazy the amount of junk that comes out in the first few oil changes.

I'm an auto tech and one of the things i learned along the way of building engines is the 'white rag test', basically if you put some oil on a white paper towel/rag and wipe inside the engine and it comes back 'not white' (usually gray from iron/steel machining swarf), then it ain't clean! I think a white rag would change colors just looking at the inside of a brand new 'zero-hour' small engine. After all, zero hours just means 'not proven to stay running for any length of time'.

 

[mvonw]

I go even further.. I keep changing the oil with 5-10 minutes run time in between, until it comes back clean. So this makes my first 'commissioning' (makes it sound more complicated than it is) of a new small engine take about an hour. It's crazy the amount of junk that comes out in the first few oil changes.

I'm an auto tech and one of the things i learned along the way of building engines is the 'white rag test', basically if you put some oil on a white paper towel/rag and wipe inside the engine and it comes back 'not white' (usually gray from iron/steel machining swarf), then it ain't clean! I think a white rag would change colors just looking at the inside of a brand new 'zero-hour' small engine. After all, zero hours just means 'not proven to stay running for any length of time'.

That’s just weird….

 

[AndyRonLI]

I have a infrequently used/abused honda 3000is I bought 15? 20? years ago. The initial purchase was driven by noise. The National Parks were imposing generator noise restrictions and the Hondas were one of the few brands that could meet the requirements. I am finally looking to replace it because the gas tank has finally started to rust, to the point where the debris cup clogs pretty quickly. Replacing the tank seems like a lot of work. I suspect a lot of the newer inverter style generators are almost as quite.

 

[Grimmster]

Champion does not use 3rd party parts, they design & manufacture everything themselves.

Even the engine?

 

[Steve_S]

Even the engine?

Champion is a Huge Manufacturer of a lot of power equipment and they make all their own stuff.

 

[Browse]

Champion is a Huge Manufacturer of a lot of power equipment and they make all their own stuff.

Not so fast.

Who Makes Champion Generators & Where Are They Made? [AUTUMN 2022]

Are you thinking about buying a new Champion generator? I have great news for you! Our team here at Generatorist has helped over 600,000 visitors find information about generators and we will help you … Who Makes Champion Generators & Where Are They Made? Read More »

generatorist.com

Where are Champion Generators Made? - Generatorbeast

So, where are Champion portable generators made? The company operates from America.. Its equipment is phone engineered.. but made in China...

generatorbeast.com

 

[Nan_wpg]

Meh. The lines are so blurred now. Does anybody actually “make” 100% of their product entirely in the US? Or Canada?

I don’t think it actually matters where anything is made. Do the parts have to be made locally? Is it about jobs?

at the end of the day for me it’s reliability (quality) and value for my dollar. If I can shop locally even better.

I think most equate China with garbage. It’s up to the manufacturer to determine quality. Company specs out a price point, and manufacture accordingly.

wal mart wants the lowest price period. That’s where the low quality mindset comes from.

and There’s a difference between a Chinese knock off vs China made product that’s designed, and supported in the us.

 

[MadMac]

I need a generator that can be automatically started and stopped from my lv6548. Anyone know of one? Preferably dual fuel. I'm also a canuck...

 

[Crowz]

I'm running a Pulsar I got off amazon for backup power to my newer house.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HCYW5GF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Its $999 right now with free shipping if you have prime.

Its listed as a 12kw but its really a 9500 that can surge to 12kw.

It has electric start which was a must for me and it comes dual fuel but I bought a kit off ebay that made it tri fuel. I run it on gas or natural gas now.

If you add a kit to it then you can do auto start for outages but I haven't done that yet. Good unit and very reliable and for its size very good on fuel.

All that said its LOUD. So if your going to use it often I'd recommend a sound deadening enclosure.

 

[Steve_S]

I need a generator that can be automatically started and stopped from my lv6548. Anyone know of one? Preferably dual fuel. I'm also a canuck...

This is a Rabbit Warren ! I've been chasing that monster for a few years and I can tell you that small generators are a PITA for using an AGS ! None have the capability and believe me when I say I looked long & hard. Now an Electric Start model with an AUTOMATIC Choke can be modded to start & stop using an Atkinson GSCM.

I had considered a Generac Stand-BY but the vendor/installer said NO GO with Off-grid as it requires grid power & no warranty without it. So then I looked at the Champion Stand-By Generators and same story. (this was 2 yrs ago) This may have changed since then but who knows. The dealer/installer also warned me that the Generac Generators have gone down hill in quality and the required service calls have become intolerable so he is redirecting people to other brands, in fact he said he has zero issues with the Champions he sells.

 

[MadMac]

This is a Rabbit Warren ! I've been chasing that monster for a few years and I can tell you that small generators are a PITA for using an AGS ! None have the capability and believe me when I say I looked long & hard. Now an Electric Start model with an AUTOMATIC Choke can be modded to start & stop using an Atkinson GSCM.

I had considered a Generac Stand-BY but the vendor/installer said NO GO with Off-grid as it requires grid power & no warranty without it. So then I looked at the Champion Stand-By Generators and same story. (this was 2 yrs ago) This may have changed since then but who knows. The dealer/installer also warned me that the Generac Generators have gone down hill in quality and the required service calls have become intolerable so he is redirecting people to other brands, in fact he said he has zero issues with the Champions he sells.

Thanks. Yeah, I went down this rabbit hole last night for 6 or 7 hours. I can't believe this isn't really a thing out of the box. I see the new Honda eu30is has it over seas, but nothing here yet. There has to be someone out there that's made one of these wireless remote start, small, quiet inverters work.

 

[Steve_S]

Thanks. Yeah, I went down this rabbit hole last night for 6 or 7 hours. I can't believe this isn't really a thing out of the box. I see the new Honda eu30is has it over seas, but nothing here yet. There has to be someone out there that's made one of these wireless remote start, small, quiet inverters work.

I'm now in the process of making another major update to my systems which will have to include a revisit on the generator aspect. It will need to be capable of providing 240V/60A+ for charging & passthrough power. That will certainly bring a few new challenges hehehe...

With the smaller gennies, even like the 4650W Champion Inverter I am presently using, it's really best not to pull too much. I use my Inverter/Charger set to 80A Charge for my 24V Bank, this is pulling 120V/23A +/-1,2A (2700-2850W) from the L5:30 Plug which leaves enough to handle the Fridge or Well pump start surges. I have tried to use more power but I felt the genny was struggling too much and not worth it. I do have an Advantage with the Samlex Inverter, it does compensate for the surges from the battery bank when needed and that does reduce generator load stress quite a bit, not all Inverter/Chargers or AIO's can do this, especially the budget ones. You really have to UPSIZE the Inverter Generators to make sure that you are pulling from the "Running Watts" range when charging your battery systems while leaving a bit of room for other things that are running on the system.

Steve

 

[MadMac]

I'm now in the process of making another major update to my systems which will have to include a revisit on the generator aspect. It will need to be capable of providing 240V/60A+ for charging & passthrough power. That will certainly bring a few new challenges hehehe...

With the smaller gennies, even like the 4650W Champion Inverter I am presently using, it's really best not to pull too much. I use my Inverter/Charger set to 80A Charge for my 24V Bank, this is pulling 120V/23A +/-1,2A (2700-2850W) from the L5:30 Plug which leaves enough to handle the Fridge or Well pump start surges. I have tried to use more power but I felt the genny was struggling too much and not worth it. I do have an Advantage with the Samlex Inverter, it does compensate for the surges from the battery bank when needed and that does reduce generator load stress quite a bit, not all Inverter/Chargers or AIO's can do this, especially the budget ones. You really have to UPSIZE the Inverter Generators to make sure that you are pulling from the "Running Watts" range when charging your battery systems while leaving a bit of room for other things that are running on the system.

Steve

So I currently have a 7.5 kw Kubota generator with a 2 wire start remote on it already installed at my place. Problem is that it's a long way away from my aio and I'd have to bury 150-200 feet of cable. I'm also concerned that the lv6548 won't like the power coming from it. That's why I'm trying to find an inverter. I guess I'll dig into the Atkinson and see if I can make it work.