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diy solar

Generator only charge controller / charger for cloudy days or night time???

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Stewfish

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Oct 20, 2020
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Its been really cloudy in our desert lately with this crazy snow storm. I need to charge up the batteries.

Updated list with good brands details below so gar none can be adjusted with an app. Adjusting would be good based on your needs higher for top balancing like 57 to 58v and lower for everyday use like 54.4v to stay within battle borns' suggested max for long life.

AIMS - lifepo specific option
IOTA - 54.4v max
NOCO
Signature solar EG4

It seems as though my LV6548 wont charge with a 120v generator. It looks like the LV6548 requires parallel split phase 240v setup (I want 120v) and a $1000+ 240v inverter gen with electric start, which is crazy! I chose the LV6548 bc it has 250v DC input and higher stats than other models which allowed me to string three used 250w solar farm panels together to get higher voltage for a longer distance on our property without too much voltage drop. Anyway...

So is there a charger that I can connect to my 48v lifepo battery? One that I can set the charge max limit (55.5v) if I have a couple cells that need top balancing? Adjusting the settings via a phone app would be nice. It would be great if it was like my MPP LV6548 but actually only needed a normal 120v regular generator which I already have.

Can the generator and charger be running all night and continue to charge as the LV starts getting solar in the morning before I wake up? Will it back feed to the LV and cause an issue? Or will it work like dual charge controllers?

I have a 2200w yamaha generator with pull start or my remote start 4750/3800 30amp Champion generator to run a 10a or 15amp charger

I think I need something like this in 48v
www.victronenergy.com

Blue Smart IP22 Charger - Victron Energy

The Blue Smart IP22 Charger is the new professional battery charger with built-in bluetooth. Find a Victron Energy dealer near you.
www.victronenergy.com www.victronenergy.com

Update 1/8:
Iota makes a legit 48v charger also, but neither this or aims have an app to adjust charging. Although this Iota only charges to 54.4 which is low and safe for lifepo if you have a few cells that are running high or low compared.
Iota DLS-54-13/IQ4 54 Volt 13 AMP 4 Stage Smart Battery Charger https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BBJT6KY/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_navT_g_YT44PJBBEYPHY4EV4CN6

NOCO brand
NOCO Genius GX4820 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FRQQKAK/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_navT_g_7Y9ZEE0K9EDSM1W4J4AJ

Signature solar
www.signaturesolar.com

48V 25A 120V Battery Charger by EG4

DESCRIPTION SPECS & MANUAL VIDEOS SHIPPING This is a listing for: (1) Waterproof 48V / 25A Lithium Battery Charger Signature Solar’s LiFePo4 Battery Chargers are plug and play ready. Standard Alligator clips make any battery terminal easy to hook up to! This 48V 25A charger will provide 1200W...
www.signaturesolar.com

AIMS

Update 1/7:
As per MPP it wont run off a cage generator. It needs clean power from an inverter generator. After a new inverter gen it did charge via the 120v input.

However, the MPP just isn't as perfect as I thought for off grid. It treats the utility as a limitless supply utility, not a generator - yet it has all the generator features. If you have a 6000w MPP then you better plan for a minimum 6000w inverter generator for $1000s above a $700 8500w champion cage generator. It needs clean power so even a pure sine wave 4500w cage generator didn't work. Then you have to plan for double the gas of a 3500w generator to get 15a to 20a of charging. 2 gallons of gas for 10 hrs vs 5 gallons.

To get around all of these issues I got an Aims 48v 18a charger. It will give you clean power from any generator and then loads will draw from the battery, not the generator so you will save gas with a smaller generator. I just wish I could set charger settings with the aims charger.

-------------------------------------
Update 12/31
Further details why charging through the MPP sucks. First I will explain how it should work then how MPP charges.

Aims charger (normal) example:
The Aims charger runs off the generator and charges the 48v battery at 18amps = 2160watts off the 3500w generator.

Then lets say you want to make breakfast = you turn on the coffee pot = 1500w, take a shower so then well pump turns on bc the well pressure tank was low = 850w, = Total 2350w running off the inverter.

In all the total watts = 5850w for a couple minutes and the generator doesn't overload and everything works fine.

MPP charger (with pass through to loads also) example:
Everything above but the generator connects to the MPP. That means that the 3500w generator overloads bc for some reason the inverter tries to charge and run the loads at the same time. So it will charge at 10a or 20a depending on your setting and the generator runs the 2350w load also for some reason.

Either 10a or 20a overloads the generator, which has happened 3 times then I figured out why.
10amps = 1200w charging + 2350 inverter loads = 3550w
20 amps = 2400w charging + 2350w loads = 4750w

If you have a normal utility this would be fine and then the inverter would kick on when a hurricane or fire hit and the power went out. All power would route through the MPP and be seamless if you are on grid. This scenario is not great from an real off grid situation/generator, and the MPP has generator controls. Go figure...

The MPP just isn't as perfect as I thought for off grid. It treats the utility as a limitless supply utility, not a generator - yet it has all the generator features. If you have a 6000w MPP then you better plan for minimum of 6000w inverter generator for $1000s above a $700 8500w champion cage generator. It needs clean power so even my pure sine wave 4500w cage generator didn't work. Next, plan for double the gas of a 3000w generator to get 15a to 20a of charging.

To get around all of these issues I got an Aims 48v 18a charger. It will give you clean power from any generator and loads will draw from the battery, not the generator so you will save gas with a smaller generator.

I just wish I could adjust the charge settings
 
Last edited:
The last time I checked, the biggest problem with 120 volt plug-in chargers is that they are all made in China.. mostly no-name stuff, and I'm not trusting my expensive battery to that.

I found a product called a Satiator (made in Canada), Its programmable, but its meant for electric bikes and the 48 volt model (Max voltage = 63 volts), only puts out 8 amps.
If you can live with 8 amps, then that's the way to go.. Its basically a 360 watt charger.
$340 on Amazon so not cheap.

If I was in your position, I think I'd just get on Ebay and find a 120 volt lab type benchtop power supply with adjustable output.. Preferably one that can adjust voltage and current, but most importantly voltage.

Meanwell also makes a nice little charger.. Range from something like 500 to 2000 watts in size or around there. Meanwell makes good products and their charger is reasonably priced.. actually kind of inexpensive for what it does and the fact that it's a Meanwell brand. Their NPB model even has CAN BUS communications! Wow!
 
MurphyGuy said:
The last time I checked, the biggest problem with 120 volt plug-in chargers is that they are all made in China.. mostly no-name stuff, and I'm not trusting my expensive battery to that.

I found a product called a Satiator (made in Canada), Its programmable, but its meant for electric bikes and the 48 volt model (Max voltage = 63 volts), only puts out 8 amps.
If you can live with 8 amps, then that's the way to go.. Its basically a 360 watt charger.
$340 on Amazon so not cheap.

If I was in your position, I think I'd just get on Ebay and find a 120 volt lab type benchtop power supply with adjustable output.. Preferably one that can adjust voltage and current, but most importantly voltage.

Meanwell also makes a nice little charger.. Range from something like 500 to 2000 watts in size or around there. Meanwell makes good products and their charger is reasonably priced.. actually kind of inexpensive for what it does and the fact that it's a Meanwell brand. Their NPB model even has CAN BUS communications! Wow!
Click to expand...

What about a golf cart charger

I wonder if MPP makes a cheap 48v PIP that would charge 120v.
 
Preliminary the
1648 MSX 1600w 6a MPPT w 10a charger is $400

Or

3000w LV-MK 80a MPPT with 60a utilty charger is $475

Now to figure out if a normal 120v generator will work with them

I remember seeing a youtube video where Will charged up lithium batteries for his 48v golf cart. I wonder if it was solar charging only. I need to find that video.
 
Stewfish said:
3000w LV-MK 80a MPPT with 60a utilty charger is $475

Now to figure out if a normal 120v generator will work with them
Click to expand...
From what I've seen as long as you have an inverter generator that can take the wattage those work just fine. You might have to adjust down the charging amperage from utility to not beat your generator up to death. You can head over to the All-In-One forum and grab the manual to double-check.
 
MurphyGuy said:
The last time I checked, the biggest problem with 120 volt plug-in chargers is that they are all made in China.. mostly no-name stuff, and I'm not trusting my expensive battery to that.

I found a product called a Satiator (made in Canada), Its programmable, but its meant for electric bikes and the 48 volt model (Max voltage = 63 volts), only puts out 8 amps.
If you can live with 8 amps, then that's the way to go.. Its basically a 360 watt charger.
$340 on Amazon so not cheap.

If I was in your position, I think I'd just get on Ebay and find a 120 volt lab type benchtop power supply with adjustable output.. Preferably one that can adjust voltage and current, but most importantly voltage.

Meanwell also makes a nice little charger.. Range from something like 500 to 2000 watts in size or around there. Meanwell makes good products and their charger is reasonably priced.. actually kind of inexpensive for what it does and the fact that it's a Meanwell brand. Their NPB model even has CAN BUS communications! Wow!
Click to expand...

Came across this. Aims is a legit high end company right
theinverterstore.com

AC Converter/Battery Charger 36/48V: The Inverter Store

Offering a large charging capacity, the AIMS AC Converter/Battery Charger 36V and 48V, 25/18 amps, handles multiple battery types across a range of applications.
theinverterstore.com theinverterstore.com
 
Rednecktek said:
From what I've seen as long as you have an inverter generator that can take the wattage those work just fine. You might have to adjust down the charging amperage from utility to not beat your generator up to death. You can head over to the All-In-One forum and grab the manual to double-check.
Click to expand...

All the 48v ones seem to be 180v minimum for upc mode so 240v generator required.
 
Stewfish said:
All the 48v ones seem to be 180v minimum for upc mode so 240v generator required.
Click to expand...
That's for the 230v EU versions. The 120v US versions use 120v input from "The Grid". Basically voltage out = voltage in.

Wiring up a 120v output inverter to require 230v input would be a real PITA.
 
Rednecktek said:
That's for the 230v EU versions. The 120v US versions use 120v input from "The Grid". Basically voltage out = voltage in.

Wiring up a 120v output inverter to require 230v input would be a real PITA.
Click to expand...

They all had the same note pictured above for them. I think they all have to be parallelled to get battery charging and 120v just runs appliances/loads directly

On the mpp website under the device it has manuals and then generator requirements are a seperate pdf for some reason

Come to find out it's the same pdf for all 3 models mentioned above
LV6548, PIP3048 LV-MK, & 1648MSX
 

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Last edited:
Last edited:
- Generator Vrms range: 100 ~ 270Vac
Click to expand...

See, now you've got me all nervous too so I started digging into the manuals and here's what I've found:

On the MPP setting 3 has Generator Mode and Appliance Mode (default) both only requiring 100v of input, setting 11 sets the maximum utility charging current (30a default), setting 14 in CUT will charge from utility first then solar, settings 12 & 13 set the voltages at which the Utility will start and stop charging the batteries, and page 25 says in line mode "The unit will provide output power from the mains. It will also charge the battery at line mode"

In the operating mode page it says "Standby mode Note: *Standby mode: The inverter is not turned on yet but at this time, the inverter can charge battery without AC output. No output is supplied by the unit but it still can charge batteries. " and has a display icon showing this, see attached picture.

So it looks like the MPP can totally do it.

The Growatt shows Setting 11 sets the Maximum Utility Charging Current, setting 12 is Setting voltage point back to utility source which appears to turn on the utility charging at a set voltage, setting 13 stops the charging at a set voltage, setting 16 says "Solar energy provides power to the load first and the utility is allowed to charge battery".

And again on page 25 (same page number, really?) in Operation Mode it says "Standby mode Note: *Standby mode: The inverter is not turned on yet but at this time, the inverter can charge battery without AC output. No output is supplied by the unit but it still can charge batteries. " See attached picture.

So, from what I'm reading in the manuals I pulled right from Watts247.com it looks like both the Growatt and MPP units can be a battery charger right out the gate.

Whew! I was getting nervous there. Honestly, I would be terrified to put 200+v to the AC-Input of a 120v unit, I'm really hoping that's a typo in their UPS mode page and comes from translating from the 230v EU models to the 120v US models.
 

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So I just did the Contact Us for MPP with this question, hopefully they'll respond fairly soon. Here's what I sent them:

So I've come across the Generator Requirement document for your PIP All-In-One solar inverters and I'm really confused about something. According to your document:
GENERATOR REQUIREMENT
UPS mode:
- Generator waveform THD: < 10%.
- Generator Vrms range: 180 ~ 270Vac
- Generator voltage crest factor(Vpeak/Vrms): < 1.6
- Generator peak voltage: <380V
- Frequency range: 45Hz ~ 63Hz
- Frequency slew rate: <0.3Hz/sec

In North America the grid AND all of our generators can only provide 120v on a single phase. How do you get 180-270Vac out of that? Is this a typo from the 230v EU models that wasn't corrected or is there no way to enable UPS mode on a 120v US version?

Thank You,
Click to expand...

I'll post any replies I get from them here if/when I hear back.
 
Rednecktek said:
See, now you've got me all nervous too so I started digging into the manuals and here's what I've found:

On the MPP setting 3 has Generator Mode and Appliance Mode (default) both only requiring 100v of input, setting 11 sets the maximum utility charging current (30a default), setting 14 in CUT will charge from utility first then solar, settings 12 & 13 set the voltages at which the Utility will start and stop charging the batteries, and page 25 says in line mode "The unit will provide output power from the mains. It will also charge the battery at line mode"

In the operating mode page it says "Standby mode Note: *Standby mode: The inverter is not turned on yet but at this time, the inverter can charge battery without AC output. No output is supplied by the unit but it still can charge batteries. " and has a display icon showing this, see attached picture.

So it looks like the MPP can totally do it.

The Growatt shows Setting 11 sets the Maximum Utility Charging Current, setting 12 is Setting voltage point back to utility source which appears to turn on the utility charging at a set voltage, setting 13 stops the charging at a set voltage, setting 16 says "Solar energy provides power to the load first and the utility is allowed to charge battery".

And again on page 25 (same page number, really?) in Operation Mode it says "Standby mode Note: *Standby mode: The inverter is not turned on yet but at this time, the inverter can charge battery without AC output. No output is supplied by the unit but it still can charge batteries. " See attached picture.

So, from what I'm reading in the manuals I pulled right from Watts247.com it looks like both the Growatt and MPP units can be a battery charger right out the gate.

Whew! I was getting nervous there. Honestly, I would be terrified to put 200+v to the AC-Input of a 120v unit, I'm really hoping that's a typo in their UPS mode page and comes from translating from the 230v EU models to the 120v US models.
Click to expand...
I asked peggy over at MPP if appliance mode still charges the battery. My interpretation was that appliance mode is it just feeds the appliances running directly
 
Rednecktek said:
See, now you've got me all nervous too so I started digging into the manuals and here's what I've found:

On the MPP setting 3 has Generator Mode and Appliance Mode (default) both only requiring 100v of input, setting 11 sets the maximum utility charging current (30a default), setting 14 in CUT will charge from utility first then solar, settings 12 & 13 set the voltages at which the Utility will start and stop charging the batteries, and page 25 says in line mode "The unit will provide output power from the mains. It will also charge the battery at line mode"

In the operating mode page it says "Standby mode Note: *Standby mode: The inverter is not turned on yet but at this time, the inverter can charge battery without AC output. No output is supplied by the unit but it still can charge batteries. " and has a display icon showing this, see attached picture.

So it looks like the MPP can totally do it.

The Growatt shows Setting 11 sets the Maximum Utility Charging Current, setting 12 is Setting voltage point back to utility source which appears to turn on the utility charging at a set voltage, setting 13 stops the charging at a set voltage, setting 16 says "Solar energy provides power to the load first and the utility is allowed to charge battery".

And again on page 25 (same page number, really?) in Operation Mode it says "Standby mode Note: *Standby mode: The inverter is not turned on yet but at this time, the inverter can charge battery without AC output. No output is supplied by the unit but it still can charge batteries. " See attached picture.

So, from what I'm reading in the manuals I pulled right from Watts247.com it looks like both the Growatt and MPP units can be a battery charger right out the gate.

Whew! I was getting nervous there. Honestly, I would be terrified to put 200+v to the AC-Input of a 120v unit, I'm really hoping that's a typo in their UPS mode page and comes from translating from the 230v EU models to the 120v US models.
Click to expand...

Also, its 240v ac input needed while they are paralleled. (Not 240v to the single 120v unit). I can tell.you.right now I have tried my yamaha 2200w inverter generator and a 3800w traditional generator and neither charged the battery. See the gen requirement manual on MPP's site
 
Unless Peggy says its doable, then I'm getting the aims 48v charger and plugging that into my gen
 
Rednecktek said:
So I just did the Contact Us for MPP with this question, hopefully they'll respond fairly soon. Here's what I sent them:



I'll post any replies I get from them here if/when I hear back.
Click to expand...

Haha we did the same thing. Her first reply was 110v only works in appliance mode. I'm waiting to here back what appliance mode is. Total bs if you can't use a common gen to charge up. I think the chargers are EU chargers put in the units. Maybe go to mexico an buy one.... Arg this sucks bc it will be cloudy again tomorrow. I have family over, and my battery is at 51.9v
 
Right, but I thought the question being asked was could a 48v 120vAC AIO be used as a battery charger for a 48v battery bank. More of a "Charging from multiple sources" scenario than anything else.

As for the generators, what happened when you tried? I'd guess that your little 2200w couldn't provide the amperage the AIO was trying to draw and the older 3800 wouldn't hold a stable frequency? Those seem to be the 2 most common issues I see. Did you try lowering the Max Utility current down for the little 2200?

I'm just curious. My camp has a 3500w Inverter generator I was planning on using for my 3Kw 24v system on miserable days.
 
So far what she said

standby vs generator is not addressed in the gen requirements pdf
Screenshot_20211229-030651.png
 
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