Generator only charge controller / charger for cloudy days or night time???

[Rednecktek]

I am the OP

Yeah, I fixed that. Crack habit was flaring up. Was I completely missing the original question here?

 

[Stewfish]

Right, but I thought the question being asked was could a 48v 120vAC AIO be used as a battery charger for a 48v battery bank. More of a "Charging from multiple sources" scenario than anything else.

As for the generators, what happened when you tried? I'd guess that your little 2200w couldn't provide the amperage the AIO was trying to draw and the older 3800 wouldn't hold a stable frequency? Those seem to be the 2 most common issues I see. Did you try lowering the Max Utility current down for the little 2200?

I'm just curious. My camp has a 3500w Inverter generator I was planning on using for my 3Kw 24v system on miserable days.

The 24v might have a different charger in it. Google your "model# manual"
Find the MPP site page
Click manuals
Download the gen requirments pdf

 

[Rednecktek]

The 24v might have a different charger in it. Google your "model# manual"
Find the MPP site page
Click manuals
Download the gen requirments pdf

Yup, same document you posted here. The manual I was reading from was the multi-unit manual for the 12, 24, and 48v versions from the PIP-3048LV 48v listing on watts247.com.

Another thought, @Will Prowse did a video Bigbattery.com review from July of 2020 where he had to deal with the 220v charging from a 110v source issue with a similar split-phase unit. The relevant part starts about 7:25 in and he threw a jumper in there. Maybe that's a fix that doesn't cost anything?

I thought your original question was basically "Can a smaller $750 48v/30a AIO be a more cost effective battery charger than a $1,000 48v/8a model?"

 

[Stewfish]

Hm maybe UPS vs appliance refers to the unit turns on like a UPS when power goes out and appliance means its a full time appliance.

 

[Stewfish]

Yup, same document you posted here. The manual I was reading from was the multi-unit manual for the 12, 24, and 48v versions from the PIP-3048LV 48v listing on watts247.com.

Another thought, @Will Prowse did a video Bigbattery.com review from July of 2020 where he had to deal with the 220v charging from a 110v source issue with a similar split-phase unit. The relevant part starts about 7:25 in and he threw a jumper in there. Maybe that's a fix that doesn't cost anything?

I thought your original question was basically "Can a smaller $750 48v/30a
be a more cost effective battery charger than a $1,000 48v/8a model?"

No I just need to charge my 16s2p before it dies. I set to 10a and the 2200w gen wouldn't charge. It only showed 300w-ish going to the loads. If it wont charge 120v then I'll just get a charger. So I was asking what to get.

 

[Rednecktek]

Aaahh.. OK. I feel dumb. That Aims looks good!

Surprising it wouldn't charge at all from your generator. That worries me a bit...

 

[Stewfish]

Yup, same document you posted here. The manual I was reading from was the multi-unit manual for the 12, 24, and 48v versions from the PIP-3048LV 48v listing on watts247.com.

Another thought, @Will Prowse did a video Bigbattery.com review from July of 2020 where he had to deal with the 220v charging from a 110v source issue with a similar split-phase unit. The relevant part starts about 7:25 in and he threw a jumper in there. Maybe that's a fix that doesn't cost anything?

I thought your original question was basically "Can a smaller $750 48v/30a AIO be a more cost effective battery charger than a $1,000 48v/8a model?"

Aaahh.. OK. I feel dumb. That Aims looks good!

Surprising it wouldn't charge at all from your generator. That worries me a bit...

Yeah I have à post on here about it and I have mpp support emailing me

 

[pollenface]

I use a 1kva generator and 20amp dumb charger when everything needs a big whack of power

 

[Stewfish]

Well the inverter shut off due to low battery while I was sleeping today. My wife picked up a new generator today after her work since I have to work tonight and couldn't. I'll see if it charges the battery tomorrow. My dad hooked up the generator for my wife to run directly to power everything. I didn't want to put him through figuring out the inverter.

It sounds like it should charge in appliance or ups mode as per Peggy at MPP and the customer support emailed back and said.

Peggy - "Appliance versus UPS is used to set the AC input voltage range of this unit. Thus, it is not related to the charging and output power."


Wish me luck.

 

[Rednecktek]

Wish me luck.

Good luck!

I'm hoping you figure out any problems before I have them.

 

[Stewfish]

Worst case I have the aims charger coming.

I went with the 3500/3000w harbor freight inverter bc the extra warranty is no questions return vs sportmans warehouse for a crapy firman generator. I have a new costco Yamaha 2200w coming also to run the aims charger all night for a gallon of gas.

Costco didn't have an inverter gen in stock

I didn't check home depot. Their return policy sucks as of this summer

 

[Stewfish]

I ran into a couple issues after I got it running.
I ended up getting the Harbor freight 3500 inverter generator bc there was only 2000w inverter generators around town.


The issues are charging via the MPP first I'll give an example of best case scenario and how it should work using the MPP charger.

Aims charger (normal) example:
The Aims charger runs off the generator and charges the 48v battery at 18amps = 2160watts off the 3500w generator.

Then lets say you want to make breakfast = you turn on the coffee pot 1500w, take a shower so then well pump turns on bc the well pressure tank was low 850w, = 2350w running off the inverter.

Total watts = 5850w for a couple minutes and the generator doesn't overload and everything works fine.

MPP charger (with pass through to loads also) example:
Everything above but the generator connects to the MPP. That means that the 3500w generator overloads bc for some reason the inverter tries to charge and run the loads. So it will charge at 10a or 20a depending on your setting and the generator runs the 2350w load also for some reason.

Both 10a or 20a overloads the generator, which has happened 3 times.
10amps = 1200w charging + 2350 inverter loads = 3550w
20 amps = 2400w charging + 2350w loads = 4750w

The MPP just isn't as perfect as I thought for off grid. It treats the utility as a limitless supply utility, not a generator - yet it has all the generator features. If you have a 6000w MPP then you better plan for a 6000w inverter generator for $1000s above a $700 champion cage generator. It needs clean power so even a pure sine wave 4500w cage generator wont work. Then plan for double the gas of a 3000w generator to get 15a to 20a of charging.

To get around all of these issues I got an Aims 48v 18a charger. It will give you clean power from any generator and loads will draw from the battery, not the generator so you will save gas with a smaller generator.

 

[Prefersdirt]

Unless Peggy says its doable, then I'm getting the aims 48v charger and plugging that into my gen

Really curious what you find out and do. I am planning a much larger, whole house system and one issue I have not solved is how to charge the batteries before they are critical. My GroWatt does not do this automatically unless the batteries are at critical. So be sure to post what you do. Thanks

 

[Rednecktek]

For what it's worth, I heard back from MPP:

hi Alex,

Yes you're correct that document refers to European models (220-240v). The recommendation for US low voltage type is mostly the same except for the voltage. please refer to below

UPS mode:
- Generator waveform THD: < 10%.
- Generator Vrms range: 95 ~ 140Vac
- Generator voltage crest factor(Vpeak/Vrms): < 1.6
- Generator peak voltage: <208V
- Frequency range: 45Hz ~ 63Hz
- Frequency slew rate: <0.3Hz/sec

Appliance mode:
- Generator waveform THD: < 30%.
- If square wave output generator, output duty should greater than 60%
- Generator Vrms range: 65 ~ 140Vac
- Generator voltage crest factor(Vpeak/Vrms): < 1.6
- Generator peak voltage: <380V
- Generator frequency range: 45Hz ~ 63Hz
- Generator frequency slew rate: < 0.3Hz/sec



Kind regards
Eric Hsiao | Product Manager, MPP Solar Inc.
T: 886.2.8797.8896 | TAIWAN
eric@mppsolar.com ¦ www.mppsolar.com

 

[Stewfish]

See, now you've got me all nervous .

FYI,

I updated the OP with the 3 legit brand chargers I could find.

I also added my experience of the MPP once I got everything working. You need a big enougg generator and inverter style. The pass through current to the loads really sucks for smaller generators and keeps tripping my 3500w gen.

 

[Stewfish]

Really curious what you find out and do. I am planning a much larger, whole house system and one issue I have not solved is how to charge the batteries before they are critical. My GroWatt does not do this automatically unless the batteries are at critical. So be sure to post what you do. Thanks

I updated the OP with issues and solutions. You can have a Batrium k9 trigger a dry contact relay that starts the generator to charge at a certain voltage and stops at a certain voltage. Then the generator directly powers the Aims charger to avoid the pass through loads issue.

 

[Smokin]

The Champion 3.5 Kw Genset should be strapable to 250 Vac. There 2 windings that are configurable in most genheads. If you wire it for 250 out and run a small induction motor 250v blower the output should be clean enough for the Boost PFC circuit in the Charger. You could run the induction motor freeheeling.

The Chinese have these range extenders for EV's. Great concept to implement on solar batteries. There lots to chose from. Manual to fully automatic charging profiles. Only problem is shipping is way high.

188.0US $ 6% OFF|Intelligent Four-wheel Car 72v Range Extender Generator 48v Electric Three-wheeler 60v Dc Frequency Conversion Gasoline - Dc Motor - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

 

[magnet creek]

Its been really cloudy in our desert lately with this crazy snow storm. I need to charge up the batteries.

Updated list with good brands details below so gar none can be adjusted with an app. Adjusting would be good based on your needs higher for top balancing like 57 to 58v and lower for everyday use like 54.4v to stay within battle borns' suggested max for long life.

AIMS - lifepo specific option
IOTA - 54.4v max
NOCO
Signature solar EG4

It seems as though my LV6548 wont charge with a 120v generator. It looks like the LV6548 requires parallel split phase 240v setup (I want 120v) and a $1000+ 240v inverter gen with electric start, which is crazy! I chose the LV6548 bc it has 250v DC input and higher stats than other models which allowed me to string three used 250w solar farm panels together to get higher voltage for a longer distance on our property without too much voltage drop. Anyway...

So is there a charger that I can connect to my 48v lifepo battery? One that I can set the charge max limit (55.5v) if I have a couple cells that need top balancing? Adjusting the settings via a phone app would be nice. It would be great if it was like my MPP LV6548 but actually only needed a normal 120v regular generator which I already have.

Can the generator and charger be running all night and continue to charge as the LV starts getting solar in the morning before I wake up? Will it back feed to the LV and cause an issue? Or will it work like dual charge controllers?

I have a 2200w yamaha generator with pull start or my remote start 4750/3800 30amp Champion generator to run a 10a or 15amp charger

I think I need something like this in 48v

Blue Smart IP22 Charger - Victron Energy

The Blue Smart IP22 Charger is the new professional battery charger with built-in bluetooth. Find a Victron Energy dealer near you.

www.victronenergy.com

Update 1/8:
Iota makes a legit 48v charger also, but neither this or aims have an app to adjust charging. Although this Iota only charges to 54.4 which is low and safe for lifepo if you have a few cells that are running high or low compared.
Iota DLS-54-13/IQ4 54 Volt 13 AMP 4 Stage Smart Battery Charger https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BBJT6KY/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_navT_g_YT44PJBBEYPHY4EV4CN6

NOCO brand
NOCO Genius GX4820 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FRQQKAK/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_navT_g_7Y9ZEE0K9EDSM1W4J4AJ

Signature solar

48V 25A 120V Battery Charger by EG4

DESCRIPTION SPECS & MANUAL VIDEOS SHIPPING This is a listing for: (1) Waterproof 48V / 25A Lithium Battery Charger Signature Solar’s LiFePo4 Battery Chargers are plug and play ready. Standard Alligator clips make any battery terminal easy to hook up to! This 48V 25A charger will provide 1200W...

www.signaturesolar.com

AIMS

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KKNK4L9/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_navT_g_P47WM0S40CQ3B0GKAPHD

Update 1/7:
As per MPP it wont run off a cage generator. It needs clean power from an inverter generator. After a new inverter gen it did charge via the 120v input.

However, the MPP just isn't as perfect as I thought for off grid. It treats the utility as a limitless supply utility, not a generator - yet it has all the generator features. If you have a 6000w MPP then you better plan for a minimum 6000w inverter generator for $1000s above a $700 8500w champion cage generator. It needs clean power so even a pure sine wave 4500w cage generator didn't work. Then you have to plan for double the gas of a 3500w generator to get 15a to 20a of charging. 2 gallons of gas for 10 hrs vs 5 gallons.

To get around all of these issues I got an Aims 48v 18a charger. It will give you clean power from any generator and then loads will draw from the battery, not the generator so you will save gas with a smaller generator. I just wish I could set charger settings with the aims charger.

-------------------------------------
Update 12/31
Further details why charging through the MPP sucks. First I will explain how it should work then how MPP charges.

Aims charger (normal) example:
The Aims charger runs off the generator and charges the 48v battery at 18amps = 2160watts off the 3500w generator.

Then lets say you want to make breakfast = you turn on the coffee pot = 1500w, take a shower so then well pump turns on bc the well pressure tank was low = 850w, = Total 2350w running off the inverter.

In all the total watts = 5850w for a couple minutes and the generator doesn't overload and everything works fine.

MPP charger (with pass through to loads also) example:
Everything above but the generator connects to the MPP. That means that the 3500w generator overloads bc for some reason the inverter tries to charge and run the loads at the same time. So it will charge at 10a or 20a depending on your setting and the generator runs the 2350w load also for some reason.

Either 10a or 20a overloads the generator, which has happened 3 times then I figured out why.
10amps = 1200w charging + 2350 inverter loads = 3550w
20 amps = 2400w charging + 2350w loads = 4750w

If you have a normal utility this would be fine and then the inverter would kick on when a hurricane or fire hit and the power went out. All power would route through the MPP and be seamless if you are on grid. This scenario is not great from an real off grid situation/generator, and the MPP has generator controls. Go figure...

The MPP just isn't as perfect as I thought for off grid. It treats the utility as a limitless supply utility, not a generator - yet it has all the generator features. If you have a 6000w MPP then you better plan for minimum of 6000w inverter generator for $1000s above a $700 8500w champion cage generator. It needs clean power so even my pure sine wave 4500w cage generator didn't work. Next, plan for double the gas of a 3000w generator to get 15a to 20a of charging.

To get around all of these issues I got an Aims 48v 18a charger. It will give you clean power from any generator and loads will draw from the battery, not the generator so you will save gas with a smaller generator.

I just wish I could adjust the charge settings

Thanks for posting this. I'm designing a system for an off grid cabin with a 10kW Gruwatt Inverter Charger and 20 kwh of Lipo batteries. I think I am going to need to use a generator in winter to charge the batteries (live in WA so sun is a maybe in winter . I understand the idea of using a separate simple 48 charge controller between the generator and the batteries, but I am unclear as to how that would be wired. Would you wire the 48V output of the separate charge controller to the batteries directly, to the Gruwatt solar input or is a switch required to make things work.

 

[Prefersdirt]

Thanks for posting this. I'm designing a system for an off grid cabin with a 10kW Gruwatt Inverter Charger and 20 kwh of Lipo batteries. I think I am going to need to use a generator in winter to charge the batteries (live in WA so sun is a maybe in winter . I understand the idea of using a separate simple 48 charge controller between the generator and the batteries, but I am unclear as to how that would be wired. Would you wire the 48V output of the separate charge controller to the batteries directly, to the Gruwatt solar input or is a switch required to make things work.

Just attach directly to the bus that the batteries connect to. if you are careful, you can have the solar charge AND the genny charge batteries. Doing it this way also allows the inverters to function without even knowing the supplemental charger is running.

 

[magnet creek]

Just attach directly to the bus that the batteries connect to. if you are careful, you can have the solar charge AND the genny charge batteries. Doing it this way also allows the inverters to function without even knowing the supplemental charger is running.

Thanks, That is what I figured, but I wasn't sure if this would put a potential on the PV wiring (which it will) and if this would affect the panels in any way. Guess not. In that case I could even use a transformer with a higher Voltage rating than 48V. Like the meanwell NPP1700 https://www.meanwell.com/webapp/product/search.aspx?prod=NPP-1700. or a heavier DBR 3200 https://www.meanwell.com/webapp/product/search.aspx?prod=DBR-3200 ?