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Generator Types

Joe BoyKey

Watts, Watts, more Watts
Joined
Sep 11, 2020
Messages
534
Location
Austin Texas
Anybody know if You can use a Power generator? Or do You have to use an Inverter Generator?
Want to power my SPF-6000T-DVM Growatt inverter, thanks in advance, Joe.
 
Inverter Generators for the most part are Pure Sine HIGH Frequency, they provide cleaner & more regulated power but also suffer the issues of normal High Frequency Inversion tech. Some of the higher end ones have Low Frequency inversion which is more capable and better for anything with a motor.

Standard generators are Modified Sine Wave, which is not that good for motors and many fine electronics can be negatively affected.

Sine Wave Types and the Differences between Hi / Lo Frequency inversion is a rather extended discussion and can often generate a lot of "noise" because there are a LOT of misunderstandings and confusion.

Any Inverter/Charger system including AIO's which can take an external AC Power Source (either Grid or Genset) will accept the power, provided it meets the required Parameters for operation.
Using 120VAC as an example, it can vary between 58-62hz frequency and typically the max boundaries are 55-65hz beyond that it's "too dirty" and equipment cannot operate properly. The Voltage also has to remain fairly tight between 109V-128V, beyond those limits, again equipment will not operate properly. If either goes out of "bounds" damage can result, most Charging Systems will disconnect when outside of permitted limits.

An Inverter/Charger may be capable of doing "Pass-Through" power from the external source to the Home" while charging batteries as well. These cannot correct incoming power variations nor take Mod Sine and convert it to Pure Sine, so more or less, what comes in is what goes out while charging is proceeding. I have never encountered any information related to the impact on the battery cells as the charging system is converting to DC.

One must be aware that whatever the Genset is putting out WILL pass through the whole system while charging the battery bank. This CAN have a deleterious effect on electronics, motors & devices and could even cause damage.

Example:
I use a Samlex EVO-4024 Inverter/Charger (Tier-1 product and NOT cheap).
I use a Genset backup that is connected to the generator L5:30 (120V/30A) outlet.
When I charge the battery bank, I am pushing 24V-28V/80A at the batteries.
That is pulling 120V/24-27A and approximately 2700W +/-200W. This floats a bit relative to loads etc THIS IS CONTINUOUS !
I am using a Champion 41552 7200/9000W "Construction Generator" for charging up and it works fine BUT this unit can tickle the edges of the allowable specs and that causes the Inverter/Charger to reset & disconnect inbound "bad power". The MOD SINE passthrough is very noticeable (fridge motor, microwave, show it blatantly) but I am extremely cautious what I use while Gen Power is on.

Large Inverter Generators are had to come by and a decent one is quite expensive. The smaller units like the Honda 2000i (really good but $$) are capable of 2000W Surge but only 1500-1650W continuous (pending on models it varies a bit). You can link Two to double output.

Brands like Hyundai, Energizer and MANY more (westinghouse) have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BRANDING ! Energizer Battery Co has NOTHING to do with generators, same thing for Hyundai Industrial. These are Chinese Made (legally) but are "junk". BEWARE OF BRANDING !
They are Imported by Midland Power Inc. http://www.midlandpowerinc.com/ Other "Brandings" are imported by others.

I CAN tell you that Champion Power Equipment has always been reliable, I've used their equipment since the early 90's and no issues. I am "religious" about oil changes & use only 0W30 Synthetic Oil and do proper maintenance. My "Beast" gave me the power I needed to build my home, run my compressor (3HP/2-Stage/25Gal) and my Mig Welder as well. LOTS OF HOURS and it is now 6 years old. My other gear no issues either. They do make Inverter Generators which are quite good as well, including models which can use Propane (bonus it lasts and won't sour).


Hope it helps, Good Luck
 
That would likely do it, of course you will want a 240VAC Plug on the building side which is routed directly to the Inverter/Charger. You will also want a very heavy duty cable to go from Generator to Wall Plug Input. Do not skimp on that part !

NOTE: Many Generators CANNOT be used by a GCSM (Generator Control Start Module) that is initiated by a GSM (Generator Signal Module) on an Inverter/Charger system.

This is a Very Good Quality typical GCSM:

Here is the big Merged List (PDF) of Generators which are compatible with GCSM units. If the Make & Model is NOT on this listing, then the generator won't be capable (regardless of who's GCSM module you look at)


Link to Champion Equipment for reference: Dual Fuel with Electric Start models.
 
Great thanks, ended up going with this one, just has everything I need, may post results later in the month.
1613246793099.png
 
Ok, nothing can be simple - 4 prong 240v 30a plug out is simple enough, BUT the manual says "Neutral bonded to frame" augh, it mentions removing this bond, not understanding which way to go??? Gen will be outside with 3 conductor #10 running 15' to Growatt which only wants 2 - 120v and a ground, any suggestions on the "Neutral bonded to frame" would be appreciated, thanks Joe.
 
The GW should like this BELOW.
L1(red)= 120V Leg, L2(black)=120V Leg,
W(white) = Neutral, G(green/Bare) = Ground.

1613309616769.png


da89a29e6fa0dc9b2b499370dcf7238c.jpg
 
@Steve_S - like this - red to red, black to black, green to green, leave white off. Gen output will feed breaker with lock-out so only Grid or Gen at a time, thanks
1613316631678.png
 

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There are a few people who use Growatt's & Mpp's with 240VAC Gen Input who've gone through this, with a couple who've cooked their units. Check by searching the forum. I will NOT tell you that your assumptions are correct or not as I do not have your equipment & docs and I accept no responsibility for anyone's interpretations.

IF IN DOUBT, reach out to Growatt Technical Support and ask the manufacturer directly.
There are variations between models intended for North America Split-Phase vs European Single-Phase vs others. In rare instances, some people got the wrong Model Version and it did not go well and only discovered after the Magic Smoke was released.
 
In the broadest terms, utilizing a generator includes running a little edge-mounted petroleum motor that creates power; the electrical yield would then be able to be utilized to run apparatuses, digging tools and other hardware through reasonable expansion leads. Utilizing convenient generator yield isn't equivalent to utilizing homegrown mains supply. What's more, obviously, safe activity should consistently be your main concern; if in any uncertainty about how to work securely, consistently ask your retailer or counsel the maker.
 
Anybody know if You can use a Power generator? Or do You have to use an Inverter Generator?
Want to power my SPF-6000T-DVM Growatt inverter, thanks in advance, Joe.
I have a power generator. I use it when I need to. My toddler tries to ride it because it sounds like a motorbike. It's good :)
 
In the broadest terms, utilizing a generator includes running a little edge-mounted petroleum motor that creates power; the electrical yield would then be able to be utilized to run apparatuses, digging tools and other hardware through reasonable expansion leads. Utilizing convenient generator yield isn't equivalent to utilizing homegrown mains supply. What's more, obviously, safe activity should consistently be your main concern; if in any uncertainty about how to work securely, consistently ask your retailer or counsel the maker.
 
Hi all!
I know this thread is a bit old now, but I find start of it quite interesting where @Joe BoyKey asked if Inverter (Growatt) should use a Power (standard) Generator or should use an Inverter Generator.

I see where @Steve_S talks of the Inverters being typically "True Sine" inverters. As he says, larger ones are tough to find - which is actually what I'd like, to reduce any unknown risks.

I was disappointed to discover recently that the Champion 100520 Inverter (my #2 choice) is actually Modified Sine ;--(
And, I also discovered that the two Northern Tool generators (I have coming next week) are also Modified Sine ;--(

I've checked a number of DC inverters (i.e. Growatt etc) to see if they accepted Modified Sine and can't seem to find any requirements.

Can anyone comment about powering their DC Inverters with a Generator Inverter - Modified Wave type?

I agree with @Steve_S, it's not typical to find the larger Inverters with True sine, unless you have Honda in your wallet.
I'm getting 6400/9000W with my dual setup for ~ $1300, if it works that is. And, it's reported to be ~ 64dB, and I have option to be single or dual.
OH, and I need 240V like others here to Interlock into both legs of my panel, so the small Honda's etc are off my list.

THANKS !
 
Standard generators are Modified Sine Wave, which is not that good for motors and many fine electronics can be negatively affected.
I have always read that a rotating magnetic field would produce a natural sine wave. Just a smaller version of a utility power plant. OK maybe they suffer from wave distortion depending on the load and the voltage regulation may cause issues but still.
 
I've discussed the Mod vs Pure Sine issues with the folks at Samlex Engineering (I'm a Samlex guy) and which is used, the inverter/charger systems will operate. The GOTCHA of course it has to lurk in the open, the AC Voltage coming from the genset will be passed through. This means whichever Sine Wave form is used, that is what is being passed through the system. This will affect the operation of your AC devices, the same as if you plugged them into the generator directly. Some devices, appliances & electronics don't generally do well with Mod Sine.

My generator is a non-inverter regular 7200/9000 Champion. I see the effect when I have to occasionally charge the batteries in Mid Winter.

Have a look at this, I'm sure it is available in the States too. $cary
 
Thank you - I get it that it's a role of the dice as to what will happen on the within the house.... I'm so disappointed to learn they're MS.
I do like the Honda, just don't like the price tag. I do believe you get what you pay for - just wonder for limited use if I can get by with cheaper.

For example, I looked hard at this, but not fond of the 80 dB ;--|
These are TS inverter (Italian alternators), with a Honda engine, and already converted to NG which is my plan - at 1/2 a Honda, still!
 
Hi all!
I know this thread is a bit old now, but I find start of it quite interesting where @Joe BoyKey asked if Inverter (Growatt) should use a Power (standard) Generator or should use an Inverter Generator.

I see where @Steve_S talks of the Inverters being typically "True Sine" inverters. As he says, larger ones are tough to find - which is actually what I'd like, to reduce any unknown risks.

I was disappointed to discover recently that the Champion 100520 Inverter (my #2 choice) is actually Modified Sine ;--(
And, I also discovered that the two Northern Tool generators (I have coming next week) are also Modified Sine ;--(

I've checked a number of DC inverters (i.e. Growatt etc) to see if they accepted Modified Sine and can't seem to find any requirements.

Can anyone comment about powering their DC Inverters with a Generator Inverter - Modified Wave type?

I agree with @Steve_S, it's not typical to find the larger Inverters with True sine, unless you have Honda in your wallet.
I'm getting 6400/9000W with my dual setup for ~ $1300, if it works that is. And, it's reported to be ~ 64dB, and I have option to be single or dual.
OH, and I need 240V like others here to Interlock into both legs of my panel, so the small Honda's etc are off my list.

THANKS !
I was shopping for a generator yesterday to connect to my Growatt SPF 6000T. I had the same question about needing a generator with pure sine output. I called support at Watts24/7.com (where I bought my Growatt) and they said there is no need for a pure sine generator input to the Growatt. He did mention it is important that the output frequency is relatively stable. I bought a Predator 6500W from Harbor Freight, and will be installing it this week.
 
75 lbs transformer will handle the shotty input and output is descent 240v split phase ac, mine works and it just so happens I bought the worst THD harmonic distortion Generator out there 23 - Westinghouse 7500 duel fuel 9500w peak - 23 - yuk - but it works as per diagram above with single point neutral to ground ONLY at the house panel, Joe.1624751896359.png
 
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