Getting frustrated with [lack of] NC state and utility "green energy" encouragement

[beegee2]

I had a residential system installed about 13 years ago and at the time it was well worth it. Federal credit, state credit, utility credit and TOUD rate plan that rewarded limiting high consumption to off peak hours. Fast forward to now, and state credit is long gone. There is some break from the utility for new installations, but Duke Progress has changed the TOUD plan and I noticed I'm paying 50% more for electric bills since they changed the terms.

There used to be an on-peak demand rate that strongly encouraged you to limit your maximum Kwh usage (measured in 15 minute increments during on peak window). Outside of this window, the energy rate was less than half the standard rate. This worked well for us until they changed the plan last Fall. I didn't even notice it with payment of utility bills on auto, but recently noticed a big jump over the last year or so. They added a new demand-max charge that is not restricted to On-Peak times, but all time. I frankly find it unlikely anyone would benefit from this, and suspect I need to stringly consider dropping out of the TOU plan. This seems conuter to the whole idea of that plan. I'm curious if anyone else in the TOUD plan was bit by this change last Fall?

To add insult to injury, we have two EVs, for which the state legislature jacked up the EV tax to $180 / vehicle to presumably compensate for not buying gas and paying a state gas tax. One of these get's driven 1000 - 2000 miles per year, so our equivalent gas tax is something like 5x what a gas vehicle user pays.

Seems like we're going backwards, but I guess just in line with the times.

 

[Supervstech]

Wow...
I wonder if you can submit your mileage and dispute the ev tax?

 

[134434]

Electricity providers are in a bit of an odd spot these days. Someone still has to maintain the grid, and that isn't free. As more and more people take up solar, there's less and less electric sales profits to cover upkeep for the companies.

Technology Connections had an interesting video on it a while back:

 

[Supervstech]

Yup, after 50% of the public starts producing backfeed energy, it migjt dip into their profits...

 

[134434]

Yup, after 50% of the public starts producing backfeed energy, it migjt dip into their profits...

Nice in my area that my provider is a co-op. Any profits for the year get distributed back out to the customers.

That and if I do any rooftop solar it will be with Victron units, no backfeed, storage and personal use only.

I don't have to have everything free, but it sure would be nice to take a big chunk out of my cooling costs for the year.

 

[Madcodger]

Much road construction and repair is funded by a fax on fuel, and those rates were set when EVs didn't exist, and vehicles were less efficient. The same is true for electric utilities, with aging lines that must now handle net metering from all over the place (they weren't designed for that, btw). Infrastructure and budgets are going to be challenged for many years into the future. We decided to avoid much (not all) of this by going off grid with no net metering or export to the grid. If you instead decided to participate in that, be prepared for much change, with little of it in your favor.

 

[Tripplett]

I had a residential system installed about 13 years ago and at the time it was well worth it. Federal credit, state credit, utility credit and TOUD rate plan that rewarded limiting high consumption to off peak hours. Fast forward to now, and state credit is long gone. There is some break from the utility for new installations, but Duke Progress has changed the TOUD plan and I noticed I'm paying 50% more for electric bills since they changed the terms.

There used to be an on-peak demand rate that strongly encouraged you to limit your maximum Kwh usage (measured in 15 minute increments during on peak window). Outside of this window, the energy rate was less than half the standard rate. This worked well for us until they changed the plan last Fall. I didn't even notice it with payment of utility bills on auto, but recently noticed a big jump over the last year or so. They added a new demand-max charge that is not restricted to On-Peak times, but all time. I frankly find it unlikely anyone would benefit from this, and suspect I need to stringly consider dropping out of the TOU plan. This seems conuter to the whole idea of that plan. I'm curious if anyone else in the TOUD plan was bit by this change last Fall?

To add insult to injury, we have two EVs, for which the state legislature jacked up the EV tax to $180 / vehicle to presumably compensate for not buying gas and paying a state gas tax. One of these get's driven 1000 - 2000 miles per year, so our equivalent gas tax is something like 5x what a gas vehicle user pays.

Seems like we're going backwards, but I guess just in line with the times.

Yea there was a big uproar in the local Tesla group here in Raleigh last year. Many friends were on TOU for years and commented the changes pretty much removed all the benefits of using it. Sucks too as I just set up my solar in Feb 2024 and wanted to switch to TOU this past fall but even using Duke’s online compare tool I would only save a couple of dollars a month. Completely not worth it and that emergency charge is crazy high.

 

[Mav986]

Never ever do anything on Auto Payment bro!

 

[HarryN]

The power and EV subsidies are popular with some and not with others.

The majority of people in the US no longer have much chance at home ownership, so there isn't any reason for them to support tax subsidizes for solar installations.

Here in CA, the people who want to drive a conventional old vehicle are getting stuck with the road repair bills, so that is not happiness either.

 

[Offgrid Jungle]

Road repairs should be funded by registration fees, not gas tax. Problem solved.

 

[beegee2]

I'm waiting to hear back from Duke on why my demand max surcharge is so high. It accounts for 1/3 of my electric bill now even though we've been nice players and try to limit the big consumption during off-peak. I have a feeling it's going to be a matter of "grin and bear it" and I'll likely be switching back to the standard rate plan and no longer worry about when we run the dryer and such. I wish I was in a position to go off-grid, but not an option for us.
Regarding EV tax, there are a lot of ways I can think of to make it more fair. As suggested, registration fees. Also, when you get inspected every year they have your mileage information, they could easily factor this in.

 

[ernesto1]

I also live in NC, and have 2 EVs with the associated tax. What NC legislature didn't take into account is that electricity is already taxed at about 7%. We are now being double taxed for not using petroleum.

 

[MattMan119]

Road repairs should be funded by registration fees, not gas tax. Problem solved.

Not sure I would like this. Someone that drives 2,000 miles back and forth to work would pay the same as a salesmen that drives 200,000 miles a year. Additionally tourist pay nothing to use the roads. Local pay for everything?

 

[Quattrohead]

This talk of solar hurting electric companies is bogus, there are bazillions of people that will never be able to have solar due to their living situation and industry probably consumes far more than people.
Just like the daft idea that we will kill linesman by the dozens if we have inverters connected to the grid. They don't backfeed and any linesman that has even attended 5 minutes of training will know you deck the wire before you start touching it.

 

[Danke]

Road repairs should be funded by registration fees, not gas tax. Problem solved.

I would think they’d have to also read your odometer. Someone who barely drives shouldn’t be paying same tax than somebody who uses the roads a lot.

 

[bestconcreteblock]

I would think they’d have to also read your odometer. Someone who barely drives shouldn’t be paying same tax than somebody who uses the roads a lot

When I register they need the odometer value already. It must vary state to state?

 

[y0bailey]

Duke made like 2.7 billion dollars in 2023. We've paid our fair share and they (Duke) can cover my EV/solar "taxes" if the government is so fucking broke.

BRB, going to go wipe up corporate ball gargling tears with some coal ash.

 

[glandpuck]

In California, clean energy and solar production by homeowners and business was encouraged as a way to reduce air pollution and smog as well as reduce dependence on nuclear energy and oil/gas for electricity. The state created favorable consumer conditions while the utilities fought tooth and nail. Eventually, utilities began to come around to the idea of solar farms and wind farms as they were mandated by the state to do so. Prices for clean energy components dropped and more persons adopted solar. The utilities fought back by asking for large rate increases to build out their clean new grids and began to say that people without solar were were at an unfair burden of grid costs. they argued more and more against residential solar and having to pay for that power and became Good Samaritans saying they needed higher rates to offset the bills for the Native Americans, the poor and the immigrants. Well their arguments that those with their owned solar were wealthy played out and struck a cord with the state and in 2022 California no longer provides more than a few pennies for kW sold to the grid. But lithium batteries were encouraged to be adopted to replace engine ICE generators and ease the use of grid power in the evening. That has been working, but it means that the high time of use rates that the utilities lobbied for translated to smaller amounts of revenue. So they have taken a new approach which is to try an convince the State that only utilities should be operating battery storage facilities, windmill farms and solar power plants. That individuals with self generation are fire hazards and not needed.

WHAT THEY REALLY WILL NEVER ADMIT IS THAT THEY MISSCALCULATED MANY YEARS AGO. THEY COULD HAVE BEEN FIRST IN LINE TO SELL AND INSTALL AND LEASE SOLAR TO RESIDENTIAL AND BUSINESSES AND MADE THE PROFITS AND TAKE ON THE BATTERY INSTALLS TOO. INSTEAD THEY SETTLE FOR HAVING TO APPROVE AND SIGN OFF ON CONNECTIONS. SO NOW THEY FIGHT BY TRYING TO REMOVE THE RIGHT TO PRODUCE ELECTRICITY ON YOUR OWN PROPERTY.

AS LONG AS VOTERS ONLY FOCUS ON 2 POLITICAL ISSUES AND 3 SOCIAL ISSUES, THE PEOPLE WITH THE POWER WILL DO WHAT THEY WANT IN THEIR BEST OLIGARCHIAN INTERESTS.

 

[scoharri]

I think the best solution is to cut the cord from the utility companies. IDK

 

[SparkyJJO]

When I register they need the odometer value already. It must vary state to state?

Ohio only cares when I first register a vehicle in my name. Yearly renewal doesn't ask the odo reading. No one looks at it but me.

 

[Supervstech]

Ohio only cares when I first register a vehicle in my name. Yearly renewal doesn't ask the odo reading. No one looks at it but me.

In NC, vehicles under 30 years old need inspection for plate renewal, and they report the odometer reading.

 

[Drunkin Solar]

Just like the daft idea that we will kill linesman by the dozens if we have inverters connected to the grid. They don't backfeed and any linesman that has even attended 5 minutes of training will know you deck the wire before you start touching it.

This statement of ignorance is so wrong on so many levels and is putrid because it's so far from the truth.
Obvious you have no training in the electrical field. So for anyone reading knows the truth this a dangerous statement.

 

[glandpuck]

I think the best solution is to cut the cord from the utility companies. IDK

Against the law in California. You cannot remove a property that receives grid service from the grid. A new property does not need to be grid connected. But this can be circumvented by not consuming electricity or just not paying the bill and eventually they cut you off.

 

[Quattrohead]

This statement of ignorance is so wrong on so many levels and is putrid because it's so far from the truth.
Obvious you have no training in the electrical field. So for anyone reading knows the truth this a dangerous statement.

Please educate me then.

 

[Drunkin Solar]

No need to educate. You just don't know what you are talking about. And it's dangerous.
An understanding requires more than just a few statements and is beyond the scope of this forum.

Please delete your statement and I'll delete my statement