Getting frustrated with [lack of] NC state and utility "green energy" encouragement

[Tsolar]

This statement of ignorance is so wrong on so many levels and is putrid because it's so far from the truth.
Obvious you have no training in the electrical field. So for anyone reading knows the truth this a dangerous statement.

As a professional Electrician(not Lineman) and Solar Installer/enthusiast, I also dont understand what is wrong with his statement, and would like to hear your education. What is dangerous?

Any inverter that connects to the grid must meet UL listings, as specified by the NEC. This means that the inverter will not backfeed the grid when it is not supposed to be doing so, i.e. be safe for Linemen. Also as Quattro said, any Lineman should know how to work safely, like me as an Electrician, if solar inverters are a danger to Lineman, then it is a basic safety training issue, not an added danger from solar equipment issue.

If a solar inverter were to malfunction and accidentally backfeed the grid while the grid is down, the most likely scenario is that the the grid down area would be large enough that it would basically be a dead short to the inverter, and either trip the inverter out, or fry it, in a very short amount of time, like seconds.

Again, I just dont understand your beef with his statement.

 

[Drunkin Solar]

First off safety all safety measures are not 100 percent foolproof. Why do you think you are not allowed by power company rules to backfeed a grid?

If your an electrician you should know that some distance in a grid doesn't really matter. It will still kill or maim. Therefore why the statement is dangerous and should be removed or at minimum a strict rebuttal.

 

[Quattrohead]

Look I am not against lineman, quite the opposite. They do an amazing job with little appreciation just like our farmers.
I appreciate that just like the airline industry, there should be safety layers over safety layers.
I also fully appreciate that suicide chords to generators will cause problems, those people are idiots and deserve to be hunted down and fined.
However, day one of training and the linesman should know the main points to protect his life.

 

[Tsolar]

First off safety all safety measures are not 100 percent foolproof. Why do you think you are not allowed by power company rules to backfeed a grid?

If your an electrician you should know that some distance in a grid doesn't really matter. It will still kill or maim. Therefore why the statement is dangerous and should be removed or at minimum a strict rebuttal.

Yes, nothing in this world is 100% foolproof. But like I said, if a grid tied system were to malfunction, and backfeed the grid, in a grid down situation, the likelihood off it actually backfeeding beyond your local transformer is pretty slim, if the outage is beyond your local (to your house) transformer, then the grid will just look like a short circuit to your inverter anyway, either tripping it out, or destroying it.

And what do you mean: "Why do you think you are not allowed by power company rules to backfeed a grid?" ?????????
There are literally MILLIONS of residential solar systems around the WORLD that BACK FEED THE GRID.

Im not sure you fully understand how theses systems connect with, and interact with the grid. There are already multiple safety layers built in to a solar system/inverter that is connected to the grid. Every inverter connected to the grid must meet multiple certifications, and then there are additional safety disconnects that must be installed by the Electrician, before a system ever gets permitted and allowed to backfeed onto the grid.

A solar system connected to the grid poses no meaningful additional risk to any Lineman, that has had at least the first 5 minutes of training. And if you disagree, please explain how any grid connected solar system produces more risk to a Lineman.

 

[J.H.]

Wow...
I wonder if you can submit your mileage and dispute the ev tax?

At least up here in NC they give us a certain timeline to dispute a contested tax valuation… and you CAN win… I did it..
I had a 1990 work Jeep , in the early 90s….used it for hauling fresh fish and shrimp 3 days a week from the coast to the mountains …

eventually it got rusted out beyond belief and stunk like a dirty chum box…

At 400,000 miles ( no major repairs) in the late 90s they sent me a tax bill based on $3000.00 valuation….WHAT..!!! ? I decided to contest it , called the tax office and said they were wrong…I will sell it to you for 500.00….how bout that..?

The lady said they don’t buy cars but bring it over here and we will look at it…

I did…

I walked her out to show it to her and then asked her to have a seat in it…

She lasted about 3 seconds and clawed her way back out ..

She said in a gasping voice ,OK ..OK …valuation is now the lowest we give on a taxable car..
$ 300.00 …

They adjusted the tax due down to 1/8th of the original tax bill …

I kept and used the car on the farm Untill 2005…(I did Clorox the whole interior to kill the smell)

It still ran great with that famous 4.0 liter straight 6 when I traded it in…500,000 + miles ..

The moral of the story is

RESIST ….don’t let ‘em jam you up. They’re just people who live life in an office cubical
What do they know about an out in the field working life…

J.

 

[SparkyJJO]

At least up here in NC they give us a certain timeline to dispute a contested tax valuation… and you CAN win… I did it..
I had a 1990 work Jeep , in the early 90s….used it for hauling fresh fish and shrimp 3 days a week from the coast to my seafood market in the mountains …

eventually it got rusted out beyond belief and stunk like a dirty chum box…

At 400,000 miles ( no major repairs) in the late 90s they sent me a tax bill based on $3000.00 valuation….WHAT..!!! ? I decided to contest it , called the tax office in boone and said they were wrong…I will sell it to you for 500.00….how bout that..?

The lady said they don’t buy cars but bring it over here and we will look at it…

I did…

I walked her out to show it to her and then asked her to have a seat in it…

She lasted about 3 seconds and clawed her way back out ..

She said in a gasping voice ,OK ..OK …valuation is now the lowest we give on a taxable car..
$ 300.00 …

They adjusted the tax due down to 1/8th of the original tax bill …

I kept and used the car on the farm Untill 2005…(I did Clorox the whole interior to kill the smell)

It still ran great with that famous 4.0 liter straight 6 when I traded it in…500,000 + miles ..

The moral of the story is

RESIST ….don’t let ‘em jam you up. They’re just people who live life in an office cubical
What do they know about an out in the field working life…

J.

Ouch. Here in Ohio registration is just a flat fee depending on the vehicle class. My 99 costs the same as the 2015, about $55 each per year.

 

[ksmithaz1]

I lived in NC for many years. Bought a camper for like $10K. Put plates on it, they sent me a property tax bill for a $50K valuation. I wandered down to the office, and asked where in the world the number came from. I put the sales price on the title application, I think it's fraud frankly. They knocked it down to 10. Silly.

 

[niccolosartor]

Road repairs should be funded by registration fees, not gas tax. Problem solved.

Registration fees aren't fair either. The guy who drives 1,000 miles a year pays the same as the guy who drives 50,000. Gas tax worked and punished poor mileage (usually heavier and causing more wear and tear on the road) vehicles but with EVs what to do? The obvious answer is a tax per mile but who wants big brother watching how much you drive. There's no easy answer right now. I'm in NC and have FOUR EVs with two drivers and hardly drive anywhere alone so I should only have to pay for one! I don't have an answer but I don't think "fund by registration fees problem solved" is going to make everyone happy. Certainly not me.

 

[niccolosartor]

Ouch. Here in Ohio registration is just a flat fee depending on the vehicle class. My 99 costs the same as the 2015, about $55 each per year.

I'm in NC. I just bought a new Ford F-150 Lightning. They valued it at 10k more than I paid! I can't figure out how to fight it. I guess I need to go to the county seat and talk to someone?

 

[niccolosartor]

I had a residential system installed about 13 years ago and at the time it was well worth it. Federal credit, state credit, utility credit and TOUD rate plan that rewarded limiting high consumption to off peak hours. Fast forward to now, and state credit is long gone. There is some break from the utility for new installations, but Duke Progress has changed the TOUD plan and I noticed I'm paying 50% more for electric bills since they changed the terms.

There used to be an on-peak demand rate that strongly encouraged you to limit your maximum Kwh usage (measured in 15 minute increments during on peak window). Outside of this window, the energy rate was less than half the standard rate. This worked well for us until they changed the plan last Fall. I didn't even notice it with payment of utility bills on auto, but recently noticed a big jump over the last year or so. They added a new demand-max charge that is not restricted to On-Peak times, but all time. I frankly find it unlikely anyone would benefit from this, and suspect I need to stringly consider dropping out of the TOU plan. This seems conuter to the whole idea of that plan. I'm curious if anyone else in the TOUD plan was bit by this change last Fall?

To add insult to injury, we have two EVs, for which the state legislature jacked up the EV tax to $180 / vehicle to presumably compensate for not buying gas and paying a state gas tax. One of these get's driven 1000 - 2000 miles per year, so our equivalent gas tax is something like 5x what a gas vehicle user pays.

Seems like we're going backwards, but I guess just in line with the times.

I also installed a 10k Solar system in 2010. It was GREAT! 30% federal, 35% state and a subsidy from NC Green Power to buy back at at 15 cents a kWh PLUS Duke Power paid another $0.06 for a total of $0.21 per kWh. That lasted 5 years and paid for the whole system (shout out to YES Solar of Cary, NC). Those days are gone. NC was pretty progressive in the late 90's early aughts but things have (obviously) changed. The DEMAND charge you're talking about will kill any EV user who has a juicy 48 amp 240 V charging apparatus. Thow in a water heater, dishwasher and you're in the 12-15kW range. One option is to get a good EVSE and limit the hours and the amperage depending on your TOU rates but that is a big pain. Best bet: Invest in solar AND batteries and control your demand by using batteries to buffer high use periods. You'll spend a lot of time and some money but it's good to have back up in NC anyway (anybody remember Hurricane FRAN? Or Helene if you're out west?)

 

[Lavarock7]

This statement of ignorance is so wrong on so many levels and is putrid because it's so far from the truth.
Obvious you have no training in the electrical field. So for anyone reading knows the truth this a dangerous statement.

When I read that original statement, I shuddered. Just because an electrical line from the consumer side does not have electricity on it at the moment, does not mean it can't seconds later.

 

[TK1979]

I had a residential system installed about 13 years ago and at the time it was well worth it. Federal credit, state credit, utility credit and TOUD rate plan that rewarded limiting high consumption to off peak hours. Fast forward to now, and state credit is long gone. There is some break from the utility for new installations, but Duke Progress has changed the TOUD plan and I noticed I'm paying 50% more for electric bills since they changed the terms.

There used to be an on-peak demand rate that strongly encouraged you to limit your maximum Kwh usage (measured in 15 minute increments during on peak window). Outside of this window, the energy rate was less than half the standard rate. This worked well for us until they changed the plan last Fall. I didn't even notice it with payment of utility bills on auto, but recently noticed a big jump over the last year or so. They added a new demand-max charge that is not restricted to On-Peak times, but all time. I frankly find it unlikely anyone would benefit from this, and suspect I need to stringly consider dropping out of the TOU plan. This seems conuter to the whole idea of that plan. I'm curious if anyone else in the TOUD plan was bit by this change last Fall?

To add insult to injury, we have two EVs, for which the state legislature jacked up the EV tax to $180 / vehicle to presumably compensate for not buying gas and paying a state gas tax. One of these get's driven 1000 - 2000 miles per year, so our equivalent gas tax is something like 5x what a gas vehicle user pays.

Seems like we're going backwards, but I guess just in line with the times.

Duke in NC is so expensive now - with all the added fees I'm seeing .15 costs per kw....

 

[ksmithaz1]

Duke in NC is so expensive now - with all the added fees I'm seeing .15 costs per kw....

That's not even close to expensive. I would call that fairly inexpensive. Try MA near Boston, it's like 0.35-040.

 

[TK1979]

That's not even close to expensive. I would call that fairly inexpensive. Try MA near Boston, it's like 0.35-040.

The payback on Solar is really fast at those rates - WOW

 

[Danke]

Registration fees aren't fair either. The guy who drives 1,000 miles a year pays the same as the guy who drives 50,000. Gas tax worked and punished poor mileage (usually heavier and causing more wear and tear on the road) vehicles but with EVs what to do? The obvious answer is a tax per mile but who wants big brother watching how much you drive. There's no easy answer right now. I'm in NC and have FOUR EVs with two drivers and hardly drive anywhere alone so I should only have to pay for one! I don't have an answer but I don't think "fund by registration fees problem solved" is going to make everyone happy. Certainly not me.

No perfect solution for sure, or as "fair" as the gas tax was. With a registration tax, If one drives a lot out of state, how would other states "share" in revenue? GPS tracking? Too much big brother for me too.

Another less intrusive compromise would be a mileage fee at registration renewal. Maybe set at a default level that is for higher milage driving, and if you drive less than that and want a reduction in registration fee, must show actual mileage for renewal.

 

[ksmithaz1]

The payback on Solar is really fast at those rates - WOW

My kid put in a Tesla wall, an expensive "no-brainer". TOU here I believe is around 0.31 July/Aug 1500-2000MST 0.08 other times. My son in MS pays like 0.11 all the time. Rates vary wildly. CA has some totally insane numbers, I think they are well over 0.50 in some scenario's. If your under 20 your rates are not "high". I think the national average is actually around 0.15.

 

[Brett V]

No perfect solution for sure, or as "fair" as the gas tax was. With a registration tax, If one drives a lot out of state, how would other states "share" in revenue? GPS tracking? Too much big brother for me too.

If your car is newer than 20-25 years old, it’s already being tracked and monitored. OnStar was the first but now every car has a gps and wireless data unit. Does your phone connect to your car to make hands free calls? Cameras are reading your license plate as you drive and all that data is being collected and stored. Big brother is already watching and keeping a digital record of every single thing you do.

 

[CMDRZOD]

Here in Alberta we pay .1 to .15 $ /kwh. Once fees are added on it equates to around .45 - .5 $ /kwh. Service fees are higher if you have a larger disconnect at the pole. Most farms here have 30A - 50A disconnects. Many farmers bring in generators to run larger loads that are intermittent such as grain dryers, fans and augers.

I chose to completely disconnect from the grid. I do not need it from March - Oct. For the remaining months I prefer to use a generator.

I would pay $100/ month for no usage. If the meter is removed by the power company, it is $100 per month charge to have it reinstalled. I won't play their game.

 

[CMDRZOD]

If your car is newer than 20-25 years old, it’s already being tracked and monitored. OnStar was the first but now every car has a gps and wireless data unit. Does your phone connect to your car to make hands free calls? Cameras are reading your license plate as you drive and all that data is being collected and stored. Big brother is already watching and keeping a digital record of every single thing you do.

One thing many people are not aware of is the tire pressure sensors. They are wireless and have unique ID's. These signals can easily be snooped on and are just as privacy destroying as plate readers.

 

[Danke]

If your car is newer than 20-25 years old, it’s already being tracked and monitored. OnStar was the first but now every car has a gps and wireless data unit. Does your phone connect to your car to make hands free calls? Cameras are reading your license plate as you drive and all that data is being collected and stored. Big brother is already watching and keeping a digital record of every single thing you do.

True

 

[Supervstech]

True

Another reason i love my old mb diesels... no need for electricity, and will run on pretty much any oil.

 

[Danke]

Another reason i love my old mb diesels... no need for electricity, and will run on pretty much any oil.

Casey Putsch made a car he claims over 100mpg on diesel. But no one is interested in backing it.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Our 2015 van has bluetooth but no wireless anything else. Well ok, it has an AM/FM receiver lol.

Yes TPMS sensors are wireless but the ramge is very low and your car is really the only thing that knows those sensor IDs. Tracking via TPMS is just being paranoid.

If you're worried about being tracked be more worried about that phone in your pocket not your car's tire sensors lol.

(That all said, if I get another newer car with Onstar on it or similar, that system will be disabled somehow.)

 

[scoharri]

Against the law in California. You cannot remove a property that receives grid service from the grid. A new property does not need to be grid connected. But this can be circumvented by not consuming electricity or just not paying the bill and eventually they cut you off.

Sure you can. As long as you're smart about it. But then again we are talking about California

 

[TK1979]

Due to the minimum charges for Solar in NC and Duke Energy - it is cheaper to not have an agreement (no selling back) and just keep the grid as back up... This is the route I will be going with my installation