Getting ready to order panels-- U.P. of MI

[beckkl]

I have some recreational land up north, and built a pole shed. I have no grid power, and am looking to put about 4K of solar in with the goal of powering a small camper, starlink, and a fullsize fridge. The bi-facials are in my budget, and seem to be a great solution for ground mount in snowy areas. Is this still a good rationale from a cost perspective? The other question I had was related to mounting angle. I've seen where some folks adjust the angle during snowy months to nearly 90 deg, so avoid any snow collecting on the panels. This is attractive to me, because we could go weeks without being up there, and I would like to continue powering the starlink while we are not there to remotely monitor the property.

 

[ghostwriter66]

when you say 4K so you mean W or $?

For the BiFacials whats the price difference between those and the same non-bifacial wattages ...

Personally not a real fan -- in alaska maybe - finland - denmark ... but where there is not nearly round the year snow - its hard for me to lean that way .. out here in South Texas -- totally worthless ...

 

[beckkl]

Yeah, I might just run the numbers in SAM and see where it lands.

 

[gray webber]

I have some recreational land up north, and built a pole shed. I have no grid power, and am looking to put about 4K of solar in with the goal of powering a small camper, starlink, and a fullsize fridge. The bi-facials are in my budget, and seem to be a great solution for ground mount in snowy areas. Is this still a good rationale from a cost perspective? The other question I had was related to mounting angle. I've seen where some folks adjust the angle during snowy months to nearly 90 deg, so avoid any snow collecting on the panels. This is attractive to me, because we could go weeks without being up there, and I would like to continue powering the starlink while we are not there to remotely monitor the property.

Hello up north!
Just noticed your post and am building a small off grid camp I’m UP of Michigan. I thought maybe your experience would be high value if you would share?
I got bi-facials already but nothing installed yet. Looking at about 1,800 watts on an adjustable ground mount. Yes-lots of snow and thinking only 5-10 degrees mid winter tilt.
I have done some rough testing and gotten over 40% more watts then they are rated!
I may get two more and overpanel for the bad days. Not sure that output will be true once mounted? Bottom of panel about 3’ over ground to clear high snow line and tilt from vertical to 60 degrees if needed.
If you have info you could share I would very much like that.

 

[beckkl]

Hello up north!
Just noticed your post and am building a small off grid camp I’m UP of Michigan. I thought maybe your experience would be high value if you would share?
I got bi-facials already but nothing installed yet. Looking at about 1,800 watts on an adjustable ground mount. Yes-lots of snow and thinking only 5-10 degrees mid winter tilt.
I have done some rough testing and gotten over 40% more watts then they are rated!
I may get two more and overpanel for the bad days. Not sure that output will be true once mounted? Bottom of panel about 3’ over ground to clear high snow line and tilt from vertical to 60 degrees if needed.
If you have info you could share I would very much like that.

Just saw this. I haven't moved forward. We originally were going to throw a few bedrooms in a pole shed we built until we realized we'd rather wait a bit and build a small cabin by the river. Not sure what the heck we were originally thinking. My plan now gets a bit trickier because I am much more limited as to where I can put the panels because most of the area by the river is denser forest. However, there is a small section I think I can get some panels in. Because of how we use the property in the winter, I think I can get away with just charging the batteries with the generator and using the solar in the summer. Most of the power usage is in the summer anyway. I plan on having the amish build a shed for me where I will store the batter/charger/inverter and plug our camper into that until we build a cabin. Because we are only up about a weekend a month, and would rarely burn through the battery (48v 304AH), I can let a small array slowly charge it over the three weeks.

Also a yooper

 

[gray webber]

Hello fellow Yooper.
I built a solar box for my batteries, inverter, SCC and combiner box. All fits good. The battery box is insulated and heated. 24volts/300ah , much smaller then yours.
After doing this for a friend and I , I thought I might risk it and started building an in house battery and found that I could fit two of them in the same box to have 560ah if wished.
For now it’s just one 8s. Doing the home battery build saves more then 600$ over the low cost manufsctured cells and I added low temp charge disconnect. Good to have just in case. Most batteries even the low cost ones do not have low temp charge disconnect. Those that do have low charge/discharge amps and cost 200-400$ more. Over priced!!!!
My solar box is only 3’x3’x4.5’- holds it all easy and cost me about $250 in materials. Thought of a shed but big and pricy and takes up too much clearing space for me.
I am building my solar panel rack now. I have two designs for 4 to 6 panels. I’m mounting 4 now and will see if more may be needed???? One design is out of metal and the other option is of 4x4 treated posts both single axis tilt. 0. To 65degrees.
I will post a number of pictures to allow you to get an idea of how I’m approaching my build. BTW-a nieghbor and friend is upgrading his off grid Solar about .5 mi away. The creek flows by his place too he is Doing near same set up. We both require about 1800 watts per day 1.8 kWh use. We both decided to get small wall mount ac units for hot summer days. No power issue as when it’s hot and sunny there is far more power then needed so ac is good.
He is taking down a Windura 750 wind turbine that he has had for about 8 years.
It did ok but at 60’ just not high enough for best power and the ground space he wants for other things. Also only about 10 % of his power from it. He has an 800 watt panel set up now but is upgrading to 4-445 watt bifacials also. Moving from useless 24 volt. 400 ah FLA batteries ( real world 140 ah in winter if healthy) to 300ah lithium. The batteries sucked! Degraded so fast! After three years measured ah capacity is about 40!!!!! Cold crapped on them! Out they go!!!!!
With the lithium in a heated box all is good.

In any case, I’ll explain the pics I post here:
Canadian Solar 445 bifacial - one of 4. (Oops that is the 390 watt I found on eBay).
Vertical heated battery box with heat pads for my needs. Can hold 2-280ah 8s batteries.
Horizontal type box with heat pads. For friend. Holds 2-300 ah 12 volt in series for 24volts.
Solar box with battery box slipped in bottom, this will be next to my solar array for camp build until done then all components go into camp. Victron Multiplus inverter.
Creek I’m building my camp on with a 70x80 clearing. Perfect south facing location for panels.

 

[gray webber]

I’m adding a few pictures for better understanding.
The start of my 8s 280amp home built battery
The insulated very mount double battery box with redundant heating system
Two 300ah batteries in flat insulated box for friend
Component panel resting on top of the flat battery box-all this fits inside the solar box
Creek I’m building camp on. Great spot.

 

[Notes]

A Yooper here also. Completely off grid.My system info.
4-Canadian Solar CS330 in series/TraceSW4024/Midnite Classic 250 with Whiz Bang jr/8 L16 370ah 4S2P@ 740ah / Propane Honda EU2000/Propane Champion3800/Propane refrig/Wood heat/Propane tankless water heater. Grundfos deep well SQE pump.
Adding 6 REC panels and another Midnite Classic.
UP forever.

 

[gray webber]

A Yooper here also. Completely off grid.My system info.
4-Canadian Solar CS330 in series/TraceSW4024/Midnite Classic 250 with Whiz Bang jr/8 L16 370ah 4S2P@ 740ah / Propane Honda EU2000/Propane Champion3800/Propane refrig/Wood heat/Propane tankless water heater. Grundfos deep well SQE pump.
Adding 6 REC panels and another Midnite Classic.
UP forever.

Hello Yooper!
Lots of battery! I’m guessing that’s why your adding some panels? Are the CS330 the biracial?
My panels could load up double the battery bank I have but I’m going to try it and see? I will have a small 7.4 cf electric frig and am using creek water only for showering and such so running a small 120volt in demand diaphragm pump and RV style on demand LP water heater.
Small gas wall heater but wood stove for major heat.
Not sure I’ll need a generator but set up for one if needed. Seasonal use most often,
Nice to discover what others are doing. Gets one thinking. Still able to do that!
Are the REC panels bifacial? How are your panels mounted?
Snowing now)))

 

[Diysolar123]

I went to MTU in hougton, mi about 40yrs ago and as I recall there was not much sun at all hehe

 

[WYtreasure]

There might be some good deals on panels in your neighborhood. Some info is in this thread, posts 31-37

trouble finding a 60 amp, non fusible Disconnect Safety Switch that'll accept 2 GA Wire

ok, found this, a 100 amp GE TGN3323 It's non-fusible and should right, correct? https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-100-Amp-240-Volt-Non-Fuse-Indoor-Safety-Switch-TGN3323/100674076 That's for indoor use only.

diysolarforum.com

 

[gray webber]

I went to MTU in hougton, mi about 40yrs ago and as I recall there was not much sun at all hehe

Yes- very limited. I’m in Ontonagon. Not much better. Less snow-only 180” a year here vs 260 there and 320 up in Calumet.
Enough panels here can work. Camp is near Bergland. Touch more sun. Get away from the big lake and the cloud cover reduces.
MTU—engineer?

 

[Notes]

Thanks for info WY.
Gary , no they are not bifacial panels. Found a guy near Escanaba. Has new REC and Trina panels.
What type of heater are you using to heat your lithium batteries.

 

[gray webber]

Thanks for info WY.
Gary , no they are not bifacial panels. Found a guy near Escanaba. Has new REC and Trina panels.
What type of heater are you using to heat your lithium batteries.

Hi Notes,
I have made three heated boxes now.
Best , simplest and lowest cost::::
2-12volt 12watt beehive pads in series for 24volts controlled by snap action thermostat, on at 35f. Off at45f. Perfect!
Also can double it for fail safe and one always is the lead but if it fails the second will kick in.
I have also used a nice little electronic stat I found so I can read box temp at a glance-uses about 2 watts. Snap action uses none.
All this in an insulated box. 1.5” XPS with air spacers for heat speculation and no hot spots. About 180watts a day at 14f if no battery activity. The more the battery and BMS work the lest extra box heat needed.
This system can work with 12volt, 24volt in 2s and 48volts in 4s. I tested the pads and they max out at about 130f , tape 2 or 2sets of 2 to a piece of tin and one screw into the 1/4” ply inner panel. 1.5” spacer blocks hold battery above and off the pads direct heat.
Used sensors in many spots and found only 2 f differences.
Oops, my name is really Gray.

 

[Notes]

Thanks Gray.

 

[gray webber]

Thanks Gray.

Yup.
I’ll take better pics of the two boxes I have now so one can see the structure and heat pad stat install.

 

[gray webber]

Hi Notes,
I have made three heated boxes now.
Best , simplest and lowest cost::::
2-12volt 12watt beehive pads in series for 24volts controlled by snap action thermostat, on at 35f. Off at45f. Perfect!
Also can double it for fail safe and one always is the lead but if it fails the second will kick in.
I have also used a nice little electronic stat I found so I can read box temp at a glance-uses about 2 watts. Snap action uses none.
All this in an insulated box. 1.5” XPS with air spacers for heat speculation and no hot spots. About 180watts a day at 14f if no battery activity. The more the battery and BMS work the lest extra box heat needed.
This system can work with 12volt, 24volt in 2s and 48volts in 4s. I tested the pads and they max out at about 130f , tape 2 or 2sets of 2 to a piece of tin and one screw into the 1/4” ply inner panel. 1.5” spacer blocks hold battery above and off the pads direct heat.
Used sensors in many spots and found only 2 f differences.
Oops, my name is really Gray.

So as to not have the miss understanding of another post. The watts used per day is .180 kWh. I listed it at 180 watts per day. Some thought it was per hour????
Very little energy if a good insulated box.
I watched the temp in the box go from 44f to 55f when battery was being used . This means the heat of use can or may provide all the heat needed and only rely on the heater if battery is idle.

 

[gray webber]

Yup.
I’ll take better pics of the two boxes I have now so one can see the structure and heat pad stat install.

First picture is of a single battery box with heater system in bottom. It holds the batter in the third picture. 8s. 280ah unit.
The second picture is of a vertical type box for behind a door. It can hold 2-12volt 300ah manufactured batteries or as I discovered it can hold 2-8s 280ah batteries like the one in the third picture. This box has a dual heating system. One is a snap action 2-pad in series 24 volt system like the single box and a second set of pads controlled by an electronic digital thermostat that is a redundant heating system in case the snap disc fails. This also allows a visual monitoring of box temp if needed. The stat only uses about 2watts.
Either way a good box well insulated is key. Simple low power heating system is also low cost ($40).

 

[beckkl]

Dang Gray, nice job on that box. I had not considered leveraging the heat from the other components when setting this up. This is basically what I was thinking as well. If I could some how generate enough electricity to keep the heaters/components/starlink up and running in the winter months it would allow me to throw up a a camera or two on the property which would be really neat.

What is the black lining? Is that velcro? I am with you using SLA or AGM for this climate. I over discharged it a few times and it now can barely keep the camper heater running overnight.

Because we don't really plan on being up there more than a few days the batteries do not need to charge to full each day. If it took two weeks that would be fine. I will likely get a plug in charger and just fill the generator tank on my way out of camp and let that thing charge it with whatever it can when I don't have to listen to it. Then I can grab maybe 4-6 panels, mount them at 90deg and leave them.

 

[beckkl]

Thanks for info WY.
Gary , no they are not bifacial panels. Found a guy near Escanaba. Has new REC and Trina panels.
What type of heater are you using to heat your lithium batteries.

Like, he is a reseller or something or he just had some he wanted to get rid of? My camp is near Cornell so it would be cool to buy local.