Given the choice, 1 limited system or 2 systems?

[Short_Shot]

Well, it DID start out as a RV, or at least a 1972 travel trailer which is where my 12v infrastructure comes from. The previous property owners drug it up there in 1988 (according to the tabs) and put it on posts & blocks. After that they tore off the tip-out and expanded the main room, added a second bedroom, and built a small utility room in the back. Grand total, less than 380sq ft.

Since I bought the place 4 years ago, I've un-clusterf%#ked the 120v wiring, added in 2 diesel parking heaters, replaced the propane heater that died, replaced the broken fridge with a 120v version, rebuilt the well and water system, new pump house and wiring/plumbing for the 315ft between the cabin and the pump house, rebuilt the outdoor shower, insulated the living room floor, replaced all the lighting with LED, replaced the toilet, cleaned and repaired the stove, replaced both beds, etc.

Considering I only get to be out there for 1 week in early spring and 1 week in late fall, it's been coming along nicely. I have to do everything in stages planning on only having a week to work and about $3000 total budget for everything I want to do, gas, food, etc. each time. 8 months a year (6 on, 2 off) on a ship and a month between the time I get home and the time I have my last paycheck to get parts shipped really slows things down.

This time around I've got a few projects I want to get done (pass my utility power inspection, get a new water heater on the outdoor shower, the entire solar rebuild, etc) during my late fall week which leaves me with my $1,000-ish budget to work with. Since I have limited time, limited budget, and limited space I am looking to utilize them all most efficiently.

I posted this thread hoping to get input on the best bang for the buck system working within my limitations, I can't print and spend money I don't have, I can't make metal frame shelves just magically wider unless I want to give up the hot water heater, I can't put in more panels than I physically have available, I can't give up the 12v system already running critical systems like heat.

Yeah bud I'm with you on that.

You can price components all day but the wiring, terminals, tools, etc all add up very fast.

If you're still set on 2000w you'll be fine at 12v.

I'd argue you can and should consider sizing all your wiring and stuff for 3000w so you can later upgrade the inverter and later still go to a mini split AC for best efficiency.

I would peg 3000w as the absolute practical limit for 12v though.

 

[Rednecktek]

Yup, that's why I jumped the plan up to the 2.4Kw 24v system, so I had a bit more fudge factor available. Doing a 3000w on 12v would be a nightmare!

The wiring, tools, lumber, terminals etc is another budget column and not counted towards the $1,000-ish budget for the system since I'll be using those on multiple other projects.

Sadly the physics of where I can stick my batteries and keep them protected limits me to a 2ft x 4ft metal frame shelf, so no way to make that large enough to get 8 batteries in place and jump to a 48v system.

2.4Kw is the largest thing MPP sells for a 24v / 120v system or I would step it up to the 3kw. Sadly all their 3kw are either 220v European or 48v. Growwatts makes a 3kw 24v system if I can shave enough elsewhere to spend the extra.

With only space for 6 batteries, assuming for round numbers a 50% DoD, and using 120Ah batteries, I can either do 4x @ 48v for 2880Wh or I can do 6x @ 24v for 4320Wh.

The AirCon would be a "With Generator Only" thing and realistic load otherwise would be about 1800Wh between dusk and dawn that the battery would have to carry assuming every light was on and you were binge watching a series.

 

[Short_Shot]

24v would hold you over to 5kw pretty easily. A good idea if you can swing it.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Well, it DID start out as a RV, or at least a 1972 travel trailer which is where my 12v infrastructure comes from. The previous property owners drug it up there in 1988 (according to the tabs) and put it on posts & blocks. After that they tore off the tip-out and expanded the main room, added a second bedroom, and built a small utility room in the back

Interesting

I never implemented (yet?) but I had the idea once to pour a 28x28 insulated slab with tubing, frost walls, and some conduit feeds, then park a camper in one corner and build a cape over it cash out of pocket. When dried in and insulated just tear the long wall and a short wall off the camper and you’d have a “very space efficient” kitchen and bathroom, providing a wide-open family space with a fieldstone fireplace.

It’s always been a dream for me to have “the family gathering place” and that seemed a no financing way to do it. Wood stove with a coil in it and a tiny constant circulator might take a week or more to ‘heat up’ the floor but other folks I know that have done similar have had it work way better than the math on the BTUs indicates it does (actually the math says it doesn’t, but a 60*F floor is way warmer than a 40* floor when it’s 15*F outside.)

I have an agreement to buy some property currently but I’m thinking of a remote lot as well…
You post hit my imagination. I have an excellent condition camper that just happens to be a 1977ish…

 

[Rednecktek]

I got lucky with the property as it is 20 acres, had the trailer/cabin/camp/little-bit-of-indoors, and had a functional well for $40k. Did a cash-out re-fi and just paid cash for the place so I didn't have to deal with financing.

One thing I do regret is that there's nowhere to stick a wood stove without SERIOUSLY cutting into the living space. That 380ft is including the bathroom, kitchen, and closets.

If you can do it it'd be a fun project! I'm just trying to get this place online while I'm still physically able so the nephews can have a place to go on vacation, and their kids, and their kids, and on and on. I just have to do most of the work myself due to scheduling with the boys and make it simple enough for sportsballers to get everything going. ?

Good thing I have an instruction manual with pictures!

 

[Short_Shot]

I got lucky with the property as it is 20 acres, had the trailer/cabin/camp/little-bit-of-indoors, and had a functional well for $40k. Did a cash-out re-fi and just paid cash for the place so I didn't have to deal with financing.

One thing I do regret is that there's nowhere to stick a wood stove without SERIOUSLY cutting into the living space. That 380ft is including the bathroom, kitchen, and closets.

If you can do it it'd be a fun project! I'm just trying to get this place online while I'm still physically able so the nephews can have a place to go on vacation, and their kids, and their kids, and on and on. I just have to do most of the work myself due to scheduling with the boys and make it simple enough for sportsballers to get everything going. ?

Good thing I have an instruction manual with pictures!

A guy I know put his wood furnace in a shed out back and buried insulated burial rated ducts I'd never seen before leading into his house.

He just has to go out partway through the night to toss a log in.

Alternatively you can use pellet furnace but the price to run those is more or less the same as propane anyways. And they are expensive.

You could do a whole insulated shed and just exchange air from the shed itself too. Bonus that it can avoid burning your house down if it's far enough away and goes up. Another friend's uncle had that happen to two houses lol

 

[12VoltInstalls]

nowhere to stick a wood stove without SERIOUSLY cutting into the living space

Sailing woodstoves (big bucks) or one of the designs for diy online are tiny, shielded, and put out a surprising amount of heat

 

[Wellbuilt]

Old rail road car wood coal stove would work allso

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Old rail road car wood coal stove would work allso

But then he’d need way more solar to run the air conditioning!

 

[Rednecktek]

True that! If I had a wood stove, even something like an ammo can stove, I'd need a 6kw 240v split phase just for the air con to not cook myself out. The 5kw diesel heater I have in the back will get the place toasty warm in a couple hours and then just idle for most of the week. I've put in a LOT of insulation in 2020... so much itching!! ?

Everyone who hears about my camp says I should put in a wood stove, and then when they actually go up there and see the place they realize that there's just nowhere I can put one without giving up something equally or more important.

Also, most pellet stoves require power for their augers and fans, which IMO defeats the point of a wood stove.

In other news, I realized last night that I can't leave the PV panels connected to the AIO and drop the battery, so now I have to find room in the budget now for a combiner box I can shut off when I shut the system down. I was hoping to save that until later when I added more panels. Sigh...

Step 1 - Hold pre-charge button for 5 seconds
Step 2 - Turn on battery breaker
Step 3 - Turn on solar panels
Step 4 - Party!

 

[12VoltInstalls]

You need an addition. And a bunch of old window weights, bearings, machine chain, chain-cog pulleys, a torsion coil garage door spring (not extension) for preload. Convert the pellet stove fan to shaft drive and the auger to 12V. Runs like a grandfather clock: “wind up” the weights and get like four hours of runtime. You’ll need a n/o relay for the brake that stops the fan driveshaft when the thermostat is satisfied and another for the auger motor.

 

[Rednecktek]

Don't temp ME with a good time! Tease!

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Don't temp ME with a good time! Tease!

Did you succumb to temptation?

 

[Rednecktek]

Parts are still "On Order"...

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Everyone who hears about my camp says I should put in a wood stove, and then when they actually go up there and see the place they realize that there's just nowhere I can put one without giving up something equally or more important.

Parts are still "On Order"...

Have you looked into the sailboat wood stoves? They burn free firewood wood you can put in a backpak on hikes. Little dead stuff, nice and dry, not rotten, 2-3” or a bit more. A cordless sawzall with a long-ish 7tpi is a handy forager tool.

But the footprint is relatively tiny.