Got ducks, looking for solar advice.

[farnk]

Recently hatched some ducklings (6) and thought a large kiddy pool would be sufficient for them later on, 4 months later now and I felt bad for them (they have a nice open yard to live in!) and made them a pond next to my shed. I've been working on a way to keep the pond clean however, settled on a bog in a barrel setup to filter their water and now just need a consistent way to power the pumps.

What I have:

An old shed​

300 Gallon pond​

Large pump (12v 12A, 144W)​

Small pump (12v 5.2W)​

12v 100AH battery (Deep cycle, AGM)​

400W HQST Solar Kit​

30A PWM Controller​

What I want to accomplish:

Running the large pump during the day​

Running the small pump 24/7​

I would like to setup some sort of panel that lets me switch the large pump on/off manually (I get up in the morning to let the ducks out of their coop, and put them away at night so that's when I would do it.) that also lets me switch on/off the connections of the other things as well in a similar manner (for the sake of maintenance so I don't have to unscrew the connectors on the control charger as much) but I'm at a loss of what something like that would be called. I've heard people call them fuse boxes, breaker boxes, fuse panels, system panels etc but searches for that haven't yielded many results.

Is something like this even possible, what sort of components would I need to pick up? I would prefer the large pump be powered as little as possible by the battery, and primarily be powered by the panels themselves but I understand inconsistent power is bad so the battery serves as a buffer to cover limited power generation to keep that pump going in the event of unexpected cloudy days and dusk/dawn coverage. While the small pump runs continuously off battery charge at night.

I appreciate any advice that anyone can share!

Edit: duck tax

 

[Rednecktek]

Well, I see a couple of options:

1: A DC Breaker is what you're looking for to turn the pump on and off, just flip the switch.
2: You could rig in a 12v photocell to a relay (since they can't handle much amperage) to turn the big pump on during the day and off at night.
3: Punt gun. (I kid!)

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Most small SCCs have a ‘load’ circuit thst is time/charge setable- that can be used to power a relay. Which then would shut down the pump.

 

[Rednecktek]

Also that, it'll usually cut off before it kills the battery but doesn't turn back on until your batteries are charged back up to a certain point.

Either way if you want to go hands off you'll be involving a relay since the "Load" ports are usually somewhere around 60w max.

 

[Supervstech]

Which drake is in charge?

 

[farnk]

@Rednecktek I really like that idea of hands off with the photocell and relay, once I have a functioning system I think it's something I would like to look more into.

@12VoltInstalls Yep, that's what I had read about PCCs, I just want to prevent the big pump from running down the battery as much as possible since it draw so much power, but still protect the system from inconsistent power loads due to clouds or inconsistent light while it's turned on.

Is there a way to split up the LOAD usage? To individually control each thing drawing power from it, or be able to add more than one thing to the LOAD connectors?

For example:
I want to take advantage of the PCCs LOAD settings to protect the battery, and as I understand it will power things while simultaneously charging the battery, and then allow those things to draw power from the battery when there is no sunlight, which is exactly what I want for the big pump when I turn it on. But the small pump, I also want to take advantage of the PCC's clever design to protect the battery from being depleted, in the off chance that for some reason I have a full week of darkness and the small pump itself eventually drains the battery.

@Supervstech from what I've been able to tell so far, they've opted for being a democracy. BUT there is one male that seems a little unruly that I was thinking of naming Caesar, but after his over the house trip via a rogue gust of wind he's been slightly humbled. So we'll see, they're very chatty with each other when one of them figures something out.

 

[farnk]

Could I use a bus bar to hook both pumps up via the PCC's Load connection?

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Could I use a bus bar to hook both pumps up via the PCC's Load connection?

Depends on the amps rating if the SCC ’load’ output which is why one uses a relay… if the relay is of sufficient rating and energizes the bussbar, sure

 

[farnk]

Depends on the amps rating if the SCC ’load’ output which is why one uses a relay… if the relay is of sufficient rating and energizes the bussbar, sure

I'm not certain that I am clear on how to setup a relay. Would it be through the SCC's load output, or connected to the battery?

Sorry for the silly questions, all this is super new to me.

 

[farnk]

Another question regarding my SCC.
It's an HP2430, Rated at 30A, and 450W at 12V. What does "No Load loss < 13mA/12V" mean?

 

[RCinFLA]

Another question regarding my SCC.
It's an HP2430, Rated at 30A, and 450W at 12V. What does "No Load loss < 13mA/12V" mean?

It means when it not charging its idle consumption from battery is 13 mA. Likely be the drain from battery you will see during the night.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Would it be through the SCC's load output, or connected to the battery?

Both. The battery supplies the load, the SCC ‘load’ supplies the trigger signsl and cuts it off.

You need to look up / google 12V relay wiring schematic
Use a relay rated for continuous duty and rated at least 25% over your max load.

 

[farnk]

Both. The battery supplies the load, the SCC ‘load’ supplies the trigger signsl and cuts it off.

You need to look up / google 12V relay wiring schematic
Use a relay rated for continuous duty and rated at least 25% over your max load.

I'll look that up tonight, thanks!

Something I see a lot are things being attached directly to the battery instead of through the SCC Load, and some people even saying not to use the load terminal on the SCC. But a lot of that seems to have to do with adding inverters, which I don't want to do (at least for now). So I've been trying to figure out how they replicate the SCC's protection over the battery, if they do at all, when not using the SCC's load terminals and instead connected to the battery directly.

It's all very confusing, but fun to learn about nonetheless!

 

[12VoltInstalls]

trying to figure out how they replicate the SCC's protection over the battery, if they do at all, when not using the SCC's load terminals and instead connected to the battery

The “load” terminals usually only supply 20A or as little as 10A or occasionally 30A. Essentially a ‘battery out’ connection. So to actually circuit your facilities for 12V you need feed wires and a fuse box to protect the non-30A wires you’ll power lights and stuff with. At that point, just go to the battery direct, use a 10 or 8ga fuse holder at the battery, and avoid one more thing that could make heat in the SCC.
On my epever the load out is programmable for a couple of scenarios. That makes it handy to use for creating circumstances that are useful. You can even use them with TWO relays, or one NO and one NC. Convenient tool but it has no protection other than its programmable low voltage cutoff.
Imho a properly designed system will never reach a low voltage that your inverter won’t inform you of anyway.
- I have thought of using the load circuit to feed my fuse box that I wired with a 30A fuse and 8ga welding cable. Never did it and honestly at this point I may use it to power a porch light from dusk to whatever because I think it would be cool to turn on a $9 led light with a $1500.00 photocell system.

Basically going direct to the battery doesn’t add anything but a fuse holder and longer wires. The fuse holder and a blue sea fuse box won’t make your system run better they’re just fire protection devices.

So it’s not confusing, you just didn’t have all the information. Now you do.

 

[farnk]

How about grounding? If I put together a fuse box should I drop a grounding rod out by the shed and hook the system up to it? I had thought DC systems with a battery have a floating ground.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

How about grounding? If I put together a fuse box should I drop a grounding rod out by the shed and hook the system up to it? I had thought DC systems with a battery have a floating ground.

You’re describing an earth ground, not the same as a negative(-).
Not needed for your DC system.

floating ground is a funny term cuz it is one of the big things make good automotive wiring techs worth $175/hour. (A bad ground can lead to a floating ground which is where the voltage seeks any circuit with less electrical potential when it can’t find that in the “ground” or more correctly, negative(-) wire.)

But yes, a low voltage DC system doesn’t typically require an earth ground.

However, high voltage DC or 120VAC should have a sure path to negative - sometimes called a “safety ground.” That is the bare copper in home wiring, for example. Lots of considerations but I’m not an electrician or EE so I’m not writing that book. You do need to do that right, however.

One ‘ground’ you probably should do is the system mounting frame(s) for the solar panels. This can stop electrolytic damage to the frames, create a dump for electrons in a weird but bad event, and potentially even dissipate lightning instead of having it travel the solar cables into your house by a bit of van de graaff effect.

The DC fuse box (-)negative should be connected to the battery post or neg(-) bussbar. The frame/chassis of a vehicle or trailer should also be connected to the negative battery post.

 

[farnk]

You’re describing an earth ground, not the same as a negative(-).
Not needed for your DC system.

floating ground is a funny term cuz it is one of the big things make good automotive wiring techs worth $175/hour. (A bad ground can lead to a floating ground which is where the voltage seeks any circuit with less electrical potential when it can’t find that in the “ground” or more correctly, negative(-) wire.)

But yes, a low voltage DC system doesn’t typically require an earth ground.

However, high voltage DC or 120VAC should have a sure path to negative - sometimes called a “safety ground.” That is the bare copper in home wiring, for example. Lots of considerations but I’m not an electrician or EE so I’m not writing that book. You do need to do that right, however.

One ‘ground’ you probably should do is the system mounting frame(s) for the solar panels. This can stop electrolytic damage to the frames, create a dump for electrons in a weird but bad event, and potentially even dissipate lightning instead of having it travel the solar cables into your house by a bit of van de graaff effect.

The DC fuse box (-)negative should be connected to the battery post or neg(-) bussbar. The frame/chassis of a vehicle or trailer should also be connected to the negative battery post.

Awesome thank you!
I'm having a look now for the right breakers, from what I can tell with NEC regulation (690.13, iirc) is that I need to get a double pull for the connection between the panels and the SCC and the rest of them can be single pull. From what I understand (and I think that I might be misunderstanding it), breakers can be used in place of the fuses?

 

[farnk]

Another question, this is the diagram for how the manufacturer says to wire their kit, and I added into it their suggested fuse sizes.

Each panel is 100W 12V 5A with a 5.5A Isc

Using their formula (in orange box) would be 4*5.5*1.2=26.4. Which means I should be looking for 30A Breakers (Or 35A if multiplied by 1.3?) correct? If I'm misunderstanding the math please let me know! And can this same fuse math be applied to the SCC Load terminals?

Also I x'ed out the inverter in the diagram as I don't intend to use one.

 

[farnk]

Update and more questions:

My small pump died and my large pump is cumbersome so I am looking into going the inverter route because there are a wider range of pumps that run off AC.

Some things I need to understand, what are the differences between a cheaper 12v 500W PSW inverter for a car, and a more expensive 12v 500W PSW inverter for solar? Most of the pumps I am looking at are between 32-50W which I think I should be able to run 24/7 with a 100ah battery at night and my solar array during the day. What is the oversurge rule and how can I calculate for it? Can I run 120v appliances off a 110v inverter?

Thank you again to everyone who has taken the time to help out so far!

 

[12VoltInstalls]

110 is 120 in practice btw

So the inverter: you’ll have idle loss of efficiency but you can get it done. And if you have enough battery and solar other things can be run off it.