Grid Storage: Liquid Air

[DIYrich]

Interesting idea for grid storage using liquid air. With a capacity of 2.5 GWh, I say it is similar to small pump storage without the need for a big lake. It is designed for short-term storage of up to a week (heat loss of storage tanks?). I think they said 70% round-trip efficiency in a different video.

 

[aenyc]

IDK if i believe any of this stuff.
Liquifying air is a very energy intensive process, not to mention various safety issues associated with any liquified gas (especially liquid air with its -213C temperature).
I am afraid Diesel fuel and Natural gas is the best we have with our current tech.

 

[fatjay]

If we're pushing for solar, we need to be exploring every possible battery technology. Liquefying air has big potential for miniaturization, where has a big lake doesn't. At a personal level, there's the potential for something not much larger than a 55g drum when you take the reduction in volume into account.

 

[aenyc]

If we're pushing for solar, we need to be exploring every possible battery technology. Liquefying air has big potential for miniaturization, where has a big lake doesn't. At a personal level, there's the potential for something not much larger than a 55g drum when you take the reduction in volume into account.

Ever touched an air compressor? These things get rather hot, rather quickly and it is not exactly easy to cool these things down.
The whole compressed air as battery idea is dead on arrival with our current level of tech knowledge

 

[fatjay]

Ever touched an air compressor? These things get rather hot, rather quickly and it is not exactly easy to cool these things down.
The whole compressed air as battery idea is dead on arrival with our current level of tech knowledge

The motor gets hot, the tank is cool, and when approaching liquid form, very cold. Compressing things makes them cooler. And yes, I have 3 compressors that I use regularly. But my jenny is by far the best.

 

[RussNM]

Hmmmm? Diesel is compressed in an engine and when it is compressed it gets somewhat hot... so....?

 

[fatjay]

Hmmmm? Diesel is compressed in an engine and when it is compressed it gets somewhat hot... so....?

That's a compound. Pure elements get colder. In the video they even said that they separated things out.

 

[RussNM]

Compressing things makes them cooler.

Just going off what you wrote......

 

[fatjay]

And I provided further clarrification.

 

[RussNM]

And I see your clarification and raise you.

 

[aenyc]

The motor gets hot, the tank is cool, and when approaching liquid form, very cold. Compressing things makes them cooler. And yes, I have 3 compressors that I use regularly. But my jenny is by far the best.

Ah what? Tank is cool? The tank is actually very hot! (And the pipe that feeds the air into the tank is hyper-hot) Compressed gases get hot and you have to lower the temperature to get it to liquify. That takes a ton of energy.

 

[Checkthisout]

Air (gasses) rise in temperature when compressed and lower in temperature when expanded.

This occurs adiabatically.

 

[Checkthisout]

That's a compound. Pure elements get colder. In the video they even said that they separated things out.

No.

The basic concept is that if you have a room that is 1000 cubic feet filled with air at say 100 degrees at 10 psi and you take the air and squish it down into a 1 cubic foot room, it's temperature will rise.

The BTU content remains the same so temperature must go up....


I sort if relate to this concept by thinking about a magnifying glass. You can take say 10 square inches of sun and focus it an area of a 1/4 inch squared and use it to burn things.

The magnifier hasn't added any energy to the system it's just passively focused a given amount of heat energy into a smaller area. That would be an example of the adiabatic temperature rise that gasses undergo when compressed.

 

[DIYrich]

The basic process is about 30% efficient round trip. They capture the heat generated during liquification, and the cooling released during expansion, and claim to get to 70% efficient.

I think the loss to the environment of the various storage tanks makes it viable for daily cycling, and storage of up to about 1 week.

Easy to argue that even 30% efficiency is better than negative electric prices, or limiting solar export, like they do in Hawaii. Pay 10 cents for 3kWh at 1pm to sell 1 kwh for 10 cents at 7pm.

 

[aenyc]

The basic process is about 30% efficient round trip. They capture the heat generated during liquification, and the cooling released during expansion, and claim to get to 70% efficient.

I think the loss to the environment of the various storage tanks makes it viable for daily cycling, and storage of up to about 1 week.

Easy to argue that even 30% efficiency is better than negative electric prices, or limiting solar export, like they do in Hawaii. Pay 10 cents for 3kWh at 1pm to sell 1 kwh for 10 cents at 7pm.

Yes flying cars and nuclear fusion are just around the corner.

 

[RussNM]

AND JETPACKS!!! WHERE are the jetpacks? They promised us JETPACKS!

 

[Hog On Ice]

" AND JETPACKS!!! WHERE are the jetpacks? They promised us JETPACKS! "

Fireworks stands are probably about as close as we can get , honestly , unless you have a reliable source for high test peroxide and catalyst screens , etc ..

 

[42OhmsPA]

AND JETPACKS!!! WHERE are the jetpacks? They promised us JETPACKS!

Found this in a quick search, now I want one.

 

[RussNM]

Found this in a quick search, now I want one.

That would be great till you got a cramp and then youd wake up hopefully in the hospital.

 

[Hog On Ice]

Jet packs and flying taxis ?
What could go wrong ?