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Grid Tie Victron ESS with DIY LiFePO4 Battery in Australia - Regulatory Issues?

The intent was to have all the AC wiring done by an electrician and get a COES for that part because the AC is the most dangerous.

So from this:
View attachment 162631

To this:
View attachment 162634

The main panel was completely rebuilt & a new sub-panel was installed (see pictures below).

View attachment 162632View attachment 162633

So, until batteries arrive and are installed (by me), the Victron Multi's are operating in pass-thru mode.

Given the delays & problems with getting an electrician to actually do the work, it made more sense (to me at least) to order batteries after successful AC install and COES issued.

Electrician has even offered to come back after battery install to ensure correct labeling and wiring. But because any battery install is Prescribed Electrical Work, a COES can probably not be issued for the battery components.

Including the COES, the work cost AU$3300 which was for 2 electricians for 1.5 days including parts (CB's, Distribution Board, Contactor, Wiring) but excluding Victron equipment & the Grid Protection Relay.

If you are planning a Victron install make sure the electrician verifies cable sizes & wiring with you before and as they install as this one undersized the AC Out 2 cable & CB's because he assumed the label on side of Multi was the current limit - but that value does not take account of any Grid Assist Passthru.
Great setup…. With that setup in the diagram. What occurs when there is a grid fail ? Does the fronius continue to invert etc ? Do your loads continue to be powered ? How will the battery’s change this in a grid fail (i.e. will fronius still charge them and share loads) and did you need to use any ESS setup ? If so what codes were best ? …. Sorry for multiple Barrell qns, but my new setup is almost identical here in Central Victoria Australia and I’m trying to get my head around it all ??????
 
What occurs when there is a grid fail ? Does the fronius continue to invert etc ? Do your loads continue to be powered ? How will the battery’s change this in a grid fail (i.e. will fronius still charge them and share loads) and did you need to use any ESS setup ? If so what codes were best ?
When grid fails, batteries will supply loads because loads are on AC Out of Multis.

Because it is on AC In side of Multis, Fronius will get its grid forming signal from the grid and will not generate any power during grid fail.

I had originally planned, and may do later, to have the Fronius on AC Out 1 of the Multis allowing it to generate power during grid failure but that would mean allowing the Multis to feed back surplus power to the grid. Given Multis do not seem to have CEC approval to feed back to grid, it feels prudent to design accordingly.

ESS will be used.
 
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there is a post on the vic community forum that says the CEC approval is about 4weeks off. So Mid Sept23 we should be good to go....well in a couple months anyway.
Hey Ghosty, any word on how this went? I'm keen to setup the below ESS but with the ability to feed back into the grid... also understand I need the Tele Grid Protection device...
 

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Installed & even have a Certificate of Electrical Safety so it is all legal.

Batteries are on their way from China - EVE LF280K.
Awesome setup and I was keen to replicate until l I found out the problems listed in the forum.

Could you share with us which Grid Protection Relay you went with please and the cost?

Thank you

edit: zoomed into your install photo and I can see TELE NA003
 
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When grid fails, batteries will supply loads because loads are on AC Out of Multis.

Because it is on AC In side of Multis, Fronius will get its grid forming signal from the grid and will not generate any power during grid fail.

I had originally planned, and may do later, to have the Fronius on AC Out 1 of the Multis allowing it to generate power during grid failure but that would mean allowing the Multis to feed back surplus power to the grid. Given Multis do not seem to have CEC approval to feed back to grid, it feels prudent to design accordingly.

ESS will be used.
Hi @BipedalPrimate. Going back a bit. Hope you still come back to answer this.

It's so cool that you got this working.

One thing that I don't quite get from your diagram and description is the point of the grid protection relay.

My understanding (likely wrong):
  1. Configuration (simplify - assume no solar), where Multi can feedback to grid (dependent on Software Settings):
    • Grid -> main Switch -> AC in of Multi -> Ac out of Multi -> Loads

  2. Configuration (simplify - assume no solar) where Multi cannot feedback to grid due to the grid protection relay (regardless of Software settings)
    • Grid -> main Switch -> Grid Protection Relay -> AC in of Multi -> Ac out of Multi -> Loads
  3. Configuration where Solar can feedback to grid (solar or grid can charge Multi), but Multi cannot due to grid protection relay (regardless of Software settings):
    • Grid -> main Switch -> Fronius -> Grid Protection Relay -> AC in of Multi -> Ac out of Multi -> Loads
  4. What you've drawn is:
    • Grid -> main Switch -> Grid Protection Relay -> Fronius -> AC in of Multi -> Ac out of Multi -> Loads
With what you've drawn, I can't see how Fronius can feedback to grid if the grid protection relay is setup to prevent feedback, or if the grid protection relay is setup to allow the Fronius to feedback to the grid and let you collect some FiT with excess Solar, what is stopping the Multi from feeding back? (This setup could however guarantee that there is no feedback from either the Fronius or the Multi in the case of a grid outage)

Isn't it software settings that determine if the multi can feedback to the grid? If simply connecting the grid to the AC in of the multi is enough to prevent feedback to the grid, why is a grid protection relay necessary? Or is it only in the case of a grid outage that there is an issue with feedback?
 
I can't see how Fronius can feedback to grid if the grid protection relay is setup to prevent feedback

The Grid Protection Relay does not prevent feedback to grid - it only ensures that the Voltage & frequency in either direction meets the requirements of the configured grid code standard.

If any of voltage or frequency falls outside of the parameters, the grid is disconnected until they come within the parameters.
1707084526660.png

So the Grid Protection Relay provides a layer of protection in addition to that the Victron & Fronius inverters provide.

This is required because the Victron inverters have not been certified to AS/NZS 4777.2:2020.

With this design, the Victron inverters COULD feedback to grid because the Grid Protection Relay ensures grid quality voltage/frequency but I have chosen not to at this stage.
 
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The Grid Protection Relay does not prevent feedback to grid - it only ensures that the Voltage & frequency in either direction meets the requirements of the configured grid code standard.

If any of voltage or frequency falls outside of the parameters, the grid is disconnected until they come within the parameters.

So the Grid Protection Relay provides a layer of protection in addition to that the Victron & Fronius inverters provide.

This is required because the Victron inverters have not been certified to AS/NZS 4777.2:2020.

With this design, the Victron inverters COULD feedback to grid because the Grid Protection Relay ensures grid quality voltage/frequency but I have chosen not to at this stage.
Thanks for clarifying, that's what I understood. I was wondering if there was an issue in that you technically can still feedback using the inverters even though they aren't CEC certified.

It would be nice to be able to choose to feedback to the grid with this setup (and more batteries); with Amber/Home Assistant, could probably start getting a better ROI on the batteries.

Really appreciate the design. Next time getting switchboard work when extending the house, I'll try to get something similar at the same time.
 
Am I correct in assuming that Victron now had CEC approval in Australia for the MP II grid code A/477.2:2020 with new Appendix M approval ???
I assume this due to the details within the changelog of the MP Firmware 510 that states >>>
**Enabled the appendix M. gridcodes of AS/NZS4777 for standard Multis/Quattros.
(installation requires external IP)**
 
Am I correct in assuming that Victron now had CEC approval in Australia for the MP II grid code A/477.2:2020 with new Appendix M approval ???
I assume this due to the details within the changelog of the MP Firmware 510 that states >>>
**Enabled the appendix M. gridcodes of AS/NZS4777 for standard Multis/Quattros.
(installation requires external IP)**
Nothing on CEC website yet, but this would be good, I am looking to go with a Multiplus, but legal connection is a problem in Australia.
 
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