Growatt Microinverter in the US

[cditty]

Hello everyone, I have been a short-term lurker. I am in the process of trying to get solar on my roof, looking at roughly 43KW system. I have been mostly reading and learning.

My plan is to supply the equipment for the installers to install. I am interested in microinverters due to periodic shading, wanting per panel metrics, and satisfying the RSD requirements, but I am finding that the main established brands are too expensive and not able to handle newer, higher yield panels. I have seen reports of the off brands getting hot and shutting down well before their labeled constant power rating. Growatt seems like a decent company in general, though I have no experience with any solar company much less, them, so I can only go by what I have read and my gut (for what that is worth). I have been trying to get some feel for the Growatt microinverters, but I have been failing to find much.

I spoke with Growatt US sales today about their Neo 2000M-X microinverters, and I was told that they are not selling them in the US. I asked why, and they said that they were missing a certificate, but they could not (not that they would not) tell me which. So, I looked up what is required and what they have. They list the following on their certification paperwork under the standards section:

• Inverters, Converters, Controllers and Interconnection System Equipment for use with Distributed Energy Resources [UL 1741:2021 Ed.3] Interconnecting Distributed Resources With Electric Power Systems (R2008) [IEEE 1547:2003]
• Amendment 1 to IEEE 1547 - Interconnecting Distributed Resources With Electric Power Systems [IEEE 1547a:2014]
• IEEE Standard Conformance Test Procedures For Equipment Interconnecting Distributed Resources With Electric Power Systems [IEEE 1547.1:2005]

And they are ETL Listed.

I had called their service department, but I hung up and called their sales department instead. Shortly after speaking with sales, I received a call from their support department. I guess that it showed that I had tried to call and they called back, I was impressed and the guy that I spoke to was nice and tried to look up the microinverter. He said that they don't deal with them because they are not used in the US. I asked why and he looked it up and said that it was split phase 220. I told him that I saw a label and it show split phase 240, he just told me that it was not what he was seeing. So, I asked him if I would be able to call the support line if I purchased overseas. He said that the warranties were transferable and at worst that I would have to wait for them to email their European counter parts for answer, but that for micro inverters there is little to troubleshoot. He just warned me that they may not work in the US.

I found this on an ebay listing:


This clearly shows 240 Vac Split Phase, and the UL and IEEE standards, but this is on the box, on the actual unit I see this:



Still 240 Vac Split Phase, but not UL/IEEE/ETL listing, not sure if that matters.


I would say long story short, but I think it is too late for that, my question is, has anyone tried this device on grid? Any advice or insight on if it would work or not? Am I missing something on why it would be denied for an interconnection (I have Duke Energy if that helps or hurts). I am considering buying them from Alibaba, depending on lead time and shipping costs, to get it over here (the US), but I need 25 of these and that is a bit of money to risk on this not working.

Thanks in advance,

/cd

 

[zanydroid]

Why are you making this so complicated?

Go on CEC list. If not on CEC list it’s probably too sus, or they didn’t ever care to try to sell into one of the largest solar markets in the U.S.

Then check with POCO which inverters they allow. You can’t use grid tie inverters without an interconnection agreement

NEP, APSystems, and Hoymiles all are on CEC list, cheaper than Enphase, and available at distributors. HMS-2000 can do 2kW AC across 4 panels. With 20% overpaneling that’s 600W per panel.

 

[cditty]

This was very helpful. Duke Energy basically only states that it must be UL 1741, outside of that, they specify nothing. I was not familiar with CEC, I did find NEP 2000 on the list. Interestingly, I cannot find the specific model, NEP BDM-2000-240A anywhere for sale.

I did reach out to a few companies on Alibaba that were selling the Growatt MI, but when they responded they immediately tried to move me to a different brand, telling me that the Growatts are never in stock. That combined with the CEC, I will move beyond Growatt and I am now looking at the NEP. I just need to make sure that it is indeed the correct version. One company claims to be factory direct and has NEP in the name, "Qingdao Northern Electric And Power Co., Ltd." At first glance it looks like the units will be around 4K before shipping, I will update here on how things progress.

 

[zanydroid]

Cool. Usually I recommend getting interconnect approved before buying anything.

For microinverters you need a couple of proprietary connectors like trunk cables, and for monitoring you need the custom monitoring box OR be aware of which brands have decoded protocols and open source controller implementations (and be willing to use them). Hoymiles has OpenDTU on github and clone DTUs on AliExpress, and if you can’t get those to work you can buy a real DTU domestically

So I think buying them from China directly is going to be annoying and end in tears if you’ve never used a specific microinverter nor installed solar before. Bonus points for risk if you aren’t able to find a thread to check your BOM.

 

[cditty]

Unless someone tells me otherwise, I will update my progress here with the hope that it helps someone else.

Thus far, for NEP-2000-240A I am looking at roughly $5,000 delivered for 25 units.

I already have the panels, a mix of LG 440W and LG 435W. I am trying to decide on the racking. I would like to get a price on Pegasus instaflash2 and the Skiprail product, I also like the SunModo NanoRack product, but I would use the instaflash2 foot instead of the NanoPlus, again, depending on cost.

I am working out the requirements (both regulatory and aesthetic) for conduit and the labor for the install. I am in Ohio and one for the bids for labor was 300 per panel. That seems steep, $30K in labor for 1-2 days of work. Even for a 4 man crew, that would work out to 3,750 per man per day, assuming 2 days. I am speaking with my roofer to see if he wants the job. Of course, I would need an electrician to connect things at the end if I went with the roofer, I would assume that the installers charging 300 per panel would deal with subbing out that part.

Sadly, this is all work that I could do (and have done), not solar specifically, but all the skills involved, and in Ohio you can do your own electric as long as you have it inspected. But I literally work 4 jobs as it is, lol, I don't have time for a 5th. Does anyone in southern Ohio have a reference for a contractor that would be willing to take this on at reasonable rates? Then again, maybe these are reasonable rates these days, and I am the unreasonable one.

On the permitting side, I am working on contracting that out. I have seen a couple of you list Fiverr. I have experience with Fiverr and that is not a bad place to start. I am checking out Greenlancer and Ignergy as well. I spoke with the building department, and I do not think that I need a stamp, so that is good, but until it is approved, I will budget for the cost, so whomever I work with will need to be able to provide if needed.

As with my original post, I am certain that I am making things more difficult than they need to be, that is what I live and breathe to do, but as I fumble through the process, I will update my progress.

 

[zanydroid]

How do those new fangled racking compare in cost to old school flash feet and rails? Say UNirac SMlite

Having gamed out how I would DIY railless and flashing less vs the old school railed with flashing I’ve used before, I think the latter is easier to do with less expertise, albeit slower and aesthetically a bit boomer and stodgy compared to railless. Also I think rails are better for servicing than railless.

Microinverters can be done incrementally as DIY. I did mine over 4 weeks.

 

[No-one-&-Not-Important]

Unless someone tells me otherwise, I will update my progress here with the hope that it helps someone else.

Thus far, for NEP-2000-240A I am looking at roughly $5,000 delivered for 25 units.

I already have the panels, a mix of LG 440W and LG 435W. I am trying to decide on the racking. I would like to get a price on Pegasus instaflash2 and the Skiprail product, I also like the SunModo NanoRack product, but I would use the instaflash2 foot instead of the NanoPlus, again, depending on cost.

I am working out the requirements (both regulatory and aesthetic) for conduit and the labor for the install. I am in Ohio and one for the bids for labor was 300 per panel. That seems steep, $30K in labor for 1-2 days of work. Even for a 4 man crew, that would work out to 3,750 per man per day, assuming 2 days. I am speaking with my roofer to see if he wants the job. Of course, I would need an electrician to connect things at the end if I went with the roofer, I would assume that the installers charging 300 per panel would deal with subbing out that part.

Sadly, this is all work that I could do (and have done), not solar specifically, but all the skills involved, and in Ohio you can do your own electric as long as you have it inspected. But I literally work 4 jobs as it is, lol, I don't have time for a 5th. Does anyone in southern Ohio have a reference for a contractor that would be willing to take this on at reasonable rates? Then again, maybe these are reasonable rates these days, and I am the unreasonable one.

On the permitting side, I am working on contracting that out. I have seen a couple of you list Fiverr. I have experience with Fiverr and that is not a bad place to start. I am checking out Greenlancer and Ignergy as well. I spoke with the building department, and I do not think that I need a stamp, so that is good, but until it is approved, I will budget for the cost, so whomever I work with will need to be able to provide if needed.

As with my original post, I am certain that I am making things more difficult than they need to be, that is what I live and breathe to do, but as I fumble through the process, I will update my progress.

Re: iGnergy: Have you seen any verified projects by iGnergy? I haven't received any confirmation of any completed work and found no references from DIYSolarForum users who have worked with them. Miguel, whom I've been in contact with from iGnergy, has been vague about providing references (only indicating he's done the work but without submitting proof of such work), which has raised some concerns for me. The cost is reasonable but for me experience in my AHJ is critical since San Jose CA is notorious for slow responses and turnaorund time and every time they ask for a change it can be 6-12 weeks before they respond to the revised submission. If you have better luck with iGnergy, would you please let me know?

Better luck on Fiverr
3 of the 6 I reached out to on Fiverr were vague so I dropped the discussion after a few exchanges. The remaining 3 seem quite forthcoming about their experience, plan details (shared details), supporting revisions, etc... I asked specifically about their experience with my specific system in my specific AHJ. Two offered plan details showing they've done the EG4 hybrid I chose but not in my AHJ and then showed other projects they'd done in my AHJ (San Jose CA). I'm vetting this detail & will likely pick one.

Re: "revisions"
I use a milestone based approach (provide 80% of payment upon solar permit plan delivery and 20% until AHJ approves all changes they request. Note: if I ask for changes to the system, it does not qualify as a "revision-able" change, it would be a new project)); this enables balanced incentives for both sides to close the contract with appropriate feedback.

I'll update re: whom I selected and explain my rationale.

 

[cditty]

I have been having a hard time getting prices for the Instaflash2. I am not usually the type to be overly swayed by a single review but watching the product testing here

piqued my interest. But as cool as the product looks, if it is too expensive, I will take a pass. But if I can find it for around $10 per like I am able to find the original Instaflash, I would be quite happy. I am strongly considering SnapNrack's system if the Instaflash2 is out of my desired price range. I am finding that I can (or hope to) source out a railles/flashless system for about $5k or just under. But that is for 100 panels. I think I might be around the same cost if I bargain hunt rails on a rail system, but I would be at the whim of the bargain and not necessarily going after the product.

I heard back from iGnergy, I do not think that I need a stamp, and their price was quite reasonable for the size of system and complexity of the roof. They stated that they would need pictures of different aspects of my house, i.e. the panel and where that is with respect to the map view of the house, and where I the new system would be installed as far as the load center/etc... So, it does seem that they are least seem like they will be thorough and custom, but I have not pulled the trigger with them until I figure out the racking that I want to use. Once I have that, I will probably give them a go and I will let you know how the process unfolds.

Fiverr was a bust for me, I did not get much in way of responses from the few that I reached out to. Well, except one that had the best rating, but he does not do permit plans, just the general planning.