diy solar

diy solar

Growatt SPF 3000 TL LVM ES without batteries

Thanks for your suggestion Will! My plan was to get a large battery bank next. I am currently searching for a good deal.

There wasn't any load on the inverter output when I tried 140V solar. Actually, the inverter part would not turn on if initially powered on with 140V solar. But then if I powered it on with utility first, then connected solar, then disconnected utility, the inverter would be operational but its AC output would drop from 120V to ~110V. All of this was at noon in full sunlight and no clouds with 2 strings of 3 410W panels (ET-M672BH410GL).

This whole experience was very strange. I doubt the solar array wasn't outputting enough power. If I do 1 string of 5 panels, everything works perfectly without utility power. I even powered 800W AC appliance (continuous) just from the solar array (no utility/no battery). It feels like the inverter part of the system doesn't work right if the solar array is below ~160V.
 
Solar supported by grid without back feed is probably the least popular type of system. I guess not too many people are going to test this with this inverter due to the legalities which I understand. I think the ticket is one of these or a split phase unit powering a mini split with solar and grid is the quickest cost recovery.
 
By the way, I've got a response from Ian from watts247.com. He said that Growatt said 150V is the minimum for batteryless operation. Unfortunately, they neglected to put this into the manual.
 
Actually, I found the "150Vdc±10Vdc" mentioned on page 46 of the User's Manual labeled "Start-up Voltage".
 
I bought one of these based on your video and have waited two months for it and my 10kw batteries to make their way from Miami to Nicaragua.
One request- when testing inverters can you please include inverters' self consumption when trying them out on various loads? I only can find idle or standby figures which will be more or less academic when I'm looking for real numbers of real use when shopping. Which I'm not now but this might help others.
 
One problem that I noticed is that the standby power draw from utility is atrocious. According to my clamp meter, the system draws 1.56 amps (AC) from utility with no load even with solar connected at full sunlight. It draws 1.7 amps without solar. That seems excessive. Any thoughts?
 
One problem that I noticed is that the standby power draw from utility is atrocious. According to my clamp meter, the system draws 1.56 amps (AC) from utility with no load even with solar connected at full sunlight. It draws 1.7 amps without solar. That seems excessive. Any thoughts?
Oh no. I wondered if they use transformers or just moses, cpus so inefficient.
 
I've emailed Ian about this today. He confirmed that the power draw will disappear with a battery connected. I'm waiting on a battery right now. I'll post the draw measurement once I install it.
 
I've finally been able to get a battery. I did a lot of testing. I am pretty disappointed with this device.

1. The utility draw disappeared when I connected the battery, however, the battery is getting drained at 0.7 amps AFTER it is discharged below the 'back to utility' voltage. I have it set up to discharge battery first, then use utility. The battery normally discharges at ~10A to 20% state of charge (44.8V) by 5 AM in the morning and switches to utility. However, after the switch, the inverter is still draining the battery at 0.7A, even with it being in the utility mode. Ian from watts247.com got back to me regarding this issue. Growatt engineers told him that when the inverter is connected to the battery, 'the battery will power the LCD, beeper, etc.' So, there isn't any way to solve this flaw.

2. Once the b2ac voltage setting is reached and inverter switches to utility mode, utility continues to be used (even after the sun comes up) to power the load until ac2b battery voltage setting is reached. This can be manually worked around by switching utility input off and back on when there is enough solar to power the load.

3. When the battery is discharged to 'switch to utility' voltage and the inverter switches to the utility, after some time the AC charger kicks in and starts charging the battery, even with battery charge priority set to 'PV Only'. This is another design flaw. I specifically set it to NOT charge from utility. Also, once I kill the utility breaker and reset it, it starts behaving properly again (by not charging the battery). If I turn everything off, disconnect and reconnect the utility and the battery, it starts charging from utility immediately, even though I specifically selected to charge the battery only from solar.

4. The back to battery voltage setting range is not usable. It starts at 48V. I wish I could go lower. My battery range is 40V - 51V. I would like to go lower than 48V for back to battery voltage setting.

5. The whole b2ac/ac2b mode switching combined with too high back to battery voltage setting and phantom utility charging is causing utility to be used when it wouldn't strictly be necessary. This creates a lot of inefficiency. The only solution I can see is to have big enough battery bank to never need utility, which makes the whole utility feature pretty useless. Ian from watts247.com suggested setting utility charging current to 1A, which mitigates the problem somewhat but it is not an acceptable solution.

6. PVkeeper software sucks:
- crashes all the time
- version 2.0 doesn't show battery discharge current
- there is no temperature display, it only shows up in logs
- password feature is useless and annoying
- there is no manual b2ac/ac2b switching in the software, I wish I had that option
- 'PV Charge Current' value in the software is incorrect, shows 3x true value

7. Battery state of charge indicator is incorrect.

8. b2ac/ac2b switching is not seamless. My UPS that I have connected as load cuts out, sometimes in and out multiple times in a few seconds, when the inverter is doing the switching.

9. The inverter voltage and current readings are off. I am going to attempt calibration sometime to see if I can solve this issue.

10. Some lights connected to the output of the inverter flicker intermittently when the battery is charging with solar. It doesn't happen with all light bulbs. My fridge's compressor makes a slightly different noise when the flickering happens. It does not occur in utility mode or when the battery is discharging. Ian from watts247.com had said that this is related to reactive loads feedback. He recommended using some inline appliance filtering or by adding some resistive loads. I am not sure if I buy that explanation due to the fact that the flickering is only happening during battery charging.

I would appreciate any ideas and recommendations. Thanks.
 
I have been experimenting more and going without a battery is not great. I can make it work if the load required is resistive and small, but going without a battery puts unneeded stress on the circuits. If it is not able to support the load, you will have a good deal of current flowing before it trips. Then you will have to disconnect solar, which can also cause problems if done repeatedly. These circuits do better with a buffer. There are just too many constant potential fluctuations and trying to control it is very difficult.

Honestly just use a small battery. It will help a lot. You could use a very small lead acid battery and it would work great.
How small is "very small"?
 
How small is "very small"?
I think the answer to my question is: It depends on the discharge current and load. So I'm considering a 1600W air conditioner load, locked rotor 16A, 230V so 3,680W at startup, so I need a 48V battery that can handle a brief 77A discharge load. Lead's C rate is 0.3 x the amp-hours (right?) so would need a 48V 231Ah array. Pretty pricey even with flooded lead from Walmart. But I found a lithium-ion cell that can be DIY assembled into a battery that can handle 200A continuous. Looks like I need 13 of them and a BMS for smooth minimal-battery buffering. About $200.
 
Here are some more issues that I've found:
11. Battery is being drained by the inverter at 0.7A intermittently when sun is still up and battery is fully charged. This doesn't make much sense. The load is being powered by solar but the battery is still being discharged? Why?
12. AC2B switch happens based on battery voltage (Battery type setting set to User-Defined 2) which can sag significantly during high load and cause a premature switch to utility. This setting needs to be a current/switch voltage table, not a single value.
13. There seems to be up to 90V AC between solar wires and the ground. This isn't a huge issue as far as I can tell, however, I appear to have sizeable parasitic capacitance on my panel frames. AC seems to pass from the DC wires onto the panel frames. If the panels are not grounded somebody can get shocked slightly. I can't figure out if this can be remedied somehow. Any ideas?
 
I was able to use mine without battery.

I do want to mention a couple of additional problems that I've experienced.

1. There seems to be ~90V AC voltage between solar terminals and ground. That is not a huge deal, but I seem to have parasitic capacitance in my solar array and the voltage leaks to solar panel frames. I've gotten 'tickled' a bit while I was working on ground wiring for the panels. I measured ~60V AC between solar panel frames and ground.

2. The inverter had a strange glitch once. It started to output 164V instead of 120V (according to the display). When I went to measure it, it was actually 65.5V, according to my true RMS clamp meter. My UPS that was connected to it switched to battery mode when this happened. I noticed that my microwave and fan died around the same time. I tried rebooting the inverter. I disconnected the battery first but the display went up to 181V. I then disconnected solar and the inverter output went to almost zero (instead of switching to utility pass through). After the reboot it started working again, however, I am a bit afraid of using it now.

Any ideas?
 
I was able to use mine without battery.

I do want to mention a couple of additional problems that I've experienced.

1. There seems to be ~90V AC voltage between solar terminals and ground. That is not a huge deal, but I seem to have parasitic capacitance in my solar array and the voltage leaks to solar panel frames. I've gotten 'tickled' a bit while I was working on ground wiring for the panels. I measured ~60V AC between solar panel frames and ground.

2. The inverter had a strange glitch once. It started to output 164V instead of 120V (according to the display). When I went to measure it, it was actually 65.5V, according to my true RMS clamp meter. My UPS that was connected to it switched to battery mode when this happened. I noticed that my microwave and fan died around the same time. I tried rebooting the inverter. I disconnected the battery first but the display went up to 181V. I then disconnected solar and the inverter output went to almost zero (instead of switching to utility pass through). After the reboot it started working again, however, I am a bit afraid of using it now.

Any ideas?
I’m no expert at this but how’s your grounding? Especially because of the “love kisses” it gave you.
 
I have a ground line with one end connected to the house panel's ground and the other end connected to a second ground rod next to the array. All grounding wires are connected to this single line.

The panels must have capacitance between frames and wafers. I'm guessing they get charged up by the inverter. The voltage goes away as soon as I disconnect the inverter from the panels. Also, connecting the panel frames to the ground makes the voltage go away (as expected). The question is, would that cause damage to the inverter?
 
I have an update for you guys on my overvoltage situation. So, it turns out there is a low-chance of a certain bug occurring apparently in the firmware of the inverter where it starts sending too much voltage to the output. I suspect the the utility bypass and the inverter output somehow gets enabled at the same time. This happens when the inverter switches from utility back to battery after it has been charged up enough from solar (in the morning).

I finally installed a voltage protector after my second microwave and duct fan got fried again. Growatt provided a new firmware which was supposed to fix the issue, however, it started occurring much more often after the update. Then they sent over another update, which seems to have (possibly?) resolved the issue, but I don't know for sure. The issue happens very rarely (every few months), so, it is hard to say.

IMG_20220505_103259.jpgIMG_20220505_103420.jpg
 
I have an update for you guys on my overvoltage situation. So, it turns out there is a low-chance of a certain bug occurring apparently in the firmware of the inverter where it starts sending too much voltage to the output. I suspect the the utility bypass and the inverter output somehow gets enabled at the same time. This happens when the inverter switches from utility back to battery after it has been charged up enough from solar (in the morning).

I finally installed a voltage protector after my second microwave and duct fan got fried again. Growatt provided a new firmware which was supposed to fix the issue, however, it started occurring much more often after the update. Then they sent over another update, which seems to have (possibly?) resolved the issue, but I don't know for sure. The issue happens very rarely (every few months), so, it is hard to say.

View attachment 100255View attachment 100256

Thank you for the update!!!
 
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