Has anyone actually used a LiFePO4 battery to the end of its lifetime? If so, how long did it last?

[blackratsnakes]

I always see manufacturers advertising/claiming 10 years or more for these LFP batteries. But when I read negative reviews it's usually how the battery only lasted so long. I'm curious if there's anyone out there that actually had an LFP last for the advertised 10 years or more? And if so, what brand are you using?

 

[wpns]

It’s a little early for calendar or cycle wearout to be showing if the original guesses and marketing hype is (was) to be believed.

Even if some random vendors batteries did last, and the company is still in business, how do you know that what they are selling today is of the same quality that they were selling 10 years ago? Everyone is chasing the low price market, so even the Reputable vendors are selling “cost reduced“ products.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

I'm curious if there's anyone out there that actually had an LFP last for the advertised 10 years or more?

Some of mine are now in their 6th year of 24/7 use without issues. I'll let you know in a few years.

 

[wpns]

Some of mine are now in their 6th year of 24/7 use without issues. I'll let you know in a few years.

One full cycle per day? Do you know the original spec for cycle (or calendar) life?

 

[timselectric]

Are we there yet?
No
Are we there yet?
No
Are we there yet?
No

 

[Q-Dog]

Only 4 years on my first LiFePO4. But that first one's life has gotten easier since others have joined the party.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

One full cycle per day? Do you know the original spec for cycle (or calendar) life?

No, not a cycle a day. Powering my house 24/7 winter and summer, meaning being mostly empty in winter and mostly full in summer.

These are original 280Ah EVE cells from a dubious provider (as they all were back then), manufactured in 2018.

This datasheet should be relevant for these:

Resource icon

EVE LF280 (3.2V 280Ah) Product Specification (Version E)-2019.7.5

Apr 20, 2020

eve 280ah spec sheet

• Steve_S
• Battery Cell Data Sheets

 

[KnobCountry]

Guy on YouTube has 10 year old calb cells that he capacity tests at over 80%

Having trouble finding it.

Others here have tested too

Post in thread 'More interesting cycle life data'

Apr 27, 2023

Since it would also benefit the office, I've got approval to test some of the CALB CAM72 and CA series cells we have nib still at the office. These would have been purchased ~2015 for a now discontinued product. Will get back on how toasted or not they are.

Our test subjects have been found. They are a CALB CA100 manufactured Jan 2014, A CALB CA180fi manufactured Oct 2013 and a Brand new CALB CAM72 manufactured April 2019. Both the CA series cells have an original testing capacity written on them. The CAM 72 cell seems to have never been used as it still has its terminal stickers...

• zcskywire2

• 
• 

 

[ElvinKing]

The expected life of the 51.2V 280Ah LiFePO4 battery pack is approximately 10-15 years, depending largely on how you use it and how you maintain it. Whilst it has a theoretical cycle life of over 10,000 cycles, with your daily usage of 8-10kWh, the battery can perform well for a very long time. If properly maintained, it can last for many years, but the reality may vary depending on the environment and usage patterns, so it is reasonable to expect more than 10 years!

 

[davo99]

In the 2.5 years I have been in the battery interest, a LOT of the claims for lipo's has changed.

In the beggining the parroted and approved position of the gathered masses was that lipo was cheaper because it lasted 20 years so the amortised cost was less than other battery types. That now seems to have been pulled back to 10 years. Warranties were said to be 10 years but seems every time I read of somone having trouble, getting warranty out of ANY supplier/ Manufacturer local or otherwise is a fight at best and an exercise in futility more often than not.

Another big and always parroted claim was that Lipo could be discharged to 100% where as LA was only 50%.
Now all the battery Rocket Surgeons are saying only charge to 80% and Only discharge down to 20% to extend the life of the cells.
In my book that's 60% capacity so stuff all more than the LA especially considering the price difference over PROPER LA batteries.

One misnomer that hasn't been corrected is tha Lipo charges and discharges faster than LA. That was said to be a C1 rate for lipo, now seems people are talking .5.

In many ways, seems the claims for Lipo are severely being back peddled.
The fact is the things havn't been out in the wild long enough to see how they behave long term with real world use. Accelerated lab testing and reality have a very documented history of not agreeing and we are still probably 10 years from knowing what the real world common experience is going to be.

Problem I see is in that time there are bound to be Improvements" in the chemistry being how crucial battery tech is nowdays and once you change anything, you reset the clock back to zero and have to start again. There are always potential unintended effects so changing one thing is bound to change another..... or not.
Only time will tell and soon as they change something else.... back to square 1 again.

People knock LA a lot for being old technology but one benifit of that is, they are definately the Devil you know.
One thing is for sure as much as it will upset so many people, there is no way I'd buy batteries from Chynaah. While many will claim they are perfect, I have read more than enough of reccomended brands going tits up both in the cells and the suppliers.

I am too poor to take a risk with someone that zero consumer obligations to warrant any gaurantees and with such a risky product anyway.
It's always amused me as to why anyone that asks about an inverter other than the most expensive brands is ridiculed especialy of they are enquiring about a cheaper and people will harp on about warranty support but ask about batteries and the marching band will all point you to some cheap Chyneese cells that are often known to be B grade but people make out like they are gold plated and never known a single case of them being less than perfect.

It's a very interesting hypocrisy to say the least.

 

[Brucey]

In the 2.5 years I have been in the battery interest, a LOT of the claims for lipo's has changed

Are you referring to lithium polymer or LFP cells when you say lipo?

 

[kommando]

Even if there were plenty of 10 year old examples doing well would a cell bought now also last 10 years?

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

In the beggining the parroted and approved position of the gathered masses was that lipo was cheaper because it lasted 20 years so the amortised cost was less than other battery types. That now seems to have been pulled back to 10 years.

Even still, the acquisition cost for LFP is now less than lead acid for the same capacity. I fully plan on having my packs operating for 20 years. I've yet to see any indications why they wouldn't last that long.

Now all the battery Rocket Surgeons are saying only charge to 80% and Only discharge down to 20% to extend the life of the cells.

Definitely not me. LFP is fine to use between 0% and 100%.

Also, don't use Lipo specifically, use Lithium in general: LiPo is specifically for Lithium Polymer batteries, and those are dangerous (ask the R/C guys).

 

[littleharbor2]

With the price of DIY LFP compared to lead acid for equivalent useable capacity, I'll take my chances. There's no way to lose, even if you only gt 5 years out of a set. Enjoy your lead acid

 

[Q-Dog]

I charge mine to 100% as often as possible and have lower limits set so the inverters shut down at 22 volts (24 volt system) to maintain some reserve. When I started regularly using more than 50% of the battery during the night I doubled the battery capacity, so went from 200ah to 400ah. Then dooubled again to 800ah.

 

[Plum Crazy Rob]

Definitely not me. LFP is fine to use between 0% and 100%.

It was EG4.

What time period constitutes "storage"?

Note that i personally know NADA about batteries, but am surprised this blog was not posted and discussed that im aware of...?

 

[SparkyJJO]

Another big and always parroted claim was that Lipo could be discharged to 100% where as LA was only 50%.
Now all the battery Rocket Surgeons are saying only charge to 80% and Only discharge down to 20% to extend the life of the cells.
In my book that's 60% capacity so stuff all more than the LA especially considering the price difference over PROPER LA batteries.

OK so long term longevity you get more life if you don't use them to their limits. That's kinda the way pretty much everything is. Difference is, you can run LFP down to 0 (or near 0) over and over and still get good lifespan out of them. with LA, every time you run them down like that you damage them, and a handful of rundowns to 0 will destroy them. LFP isn't like that.
Also, LFP doesn't care if you only ever make it to 70 or 80% charge on a regular basis for a while. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure LA NEEDS to be 100% charged regularly otherwise again their lifespan is no good. LFP just needs some runs to 100% to balance the cells out. That is one downside to LFP is the cell balancing is a little "tougher" than LA but a good BMS and half decent cells makes a big difference).

But at any rate, no one I know of here is saying only run LFP from 20% to 80%. LFP needs to be run up to 100% every so often to make sure cells stay balanced out.

 

[Brucey]

It was EG4.

Note that i personally know NADA about batteries, but am surprised this blog was not posted and discussed that im aware of...?

Well at least the original lifepower 4s tend to have problems with balancing due to a potato BMS. And they update the warranty requirements as time goes on - latest addition is you have to keep up with firmware updates or they could deny you warranty.....

Key is keeping it at a full level for extended periods of time:

"Avoid High SOC: Storing your battery at or near 100% SOC for extended periods can lead to reduced cycle life. "

Basically, if you are cycling the batteries daily as you would in an ESS system that's not a concern, i.e discharging from battery overnight etc.

 

[TomC4306]

Due to the very flat voltage curve of lfp, there is no way to set a voltage setting on a charge or load device just stop at 20% or 80%

 

[Xhumeka]

This guy has been running his pack for over 15 years now, with great results!

 

[littleharbor2]

But at any rate, no one I know of here is saying only run LFP from 20% to 80%. LFP needs to be run up to 100% every so often to make sure cells stay balanced out.

Charging to 100% also helps keep the SOC readings accurate.

 

[SparkyJJO]

And they update the warranty requirements as time goes on - latest addition is you have to keep up with firmware updates or they could deny you warranty.....

I suspect that could land them in legal troubles.
1) Print off the DATED warranty info when you get an item. I don't think a company can change the warranty terms after you purchase something and force you to abide by new terms, because that's not what you agreed to when purchasing. If I bought a potato car with a 10y/100k powertrain warranty, that they then changed to be 3/36k a few years later, and my engine had a failure 4 years in, I don't think they could say "we changed it too bad."
2) if they're trying to make FW updates part of the warranty requirement, they had better be notifying everyone all the time. Otherwise, how am I supposed to know if there is a new firmware? What if they released one last week, I didn't know/hadn't checked yet, the battery fails this week, they gonna try to void my warranty because I didn't update the firmware in the last few days? Geez.

 

[Brucey]

I suspect that could land them in legal troubles.
1) Print off the DATED warranty info when you get an item. I don't think a company can change the warranty terms after you purchase something and force you to abide by new terms, because that's not what you agreed to when purchasing. If I bought a potato car with a 10y/100k powertrain warranty, that they then changed to be 3/36k a few years later, and my engine had a failure 4 years in, I don't think they could say "we changed it too bad."
2) if they're trying to make FW updates part of the warranty requirement, they had better be notifying everyone all the time. Otherwise, how am I supposed to know if there is a new firmware? What if they released one last week, I didn't know/hadn't checked yet, the battery fails this week, they gonna try to void my warranty because I didn't update the firmware in the last few days? Geez.

Agreed. Plus their battery firmware updates generally require quite a bit of work, not just click a button and done.

 

[Mattb4]

I started using liFePO4 batteries about 2.5 years ago. This is when the price had become comparable if not cheaper than lead acid for bargain basement type quality. I have bought several more at continuing decreasing price. So far no failures. Before that change it was not unusual for my experience to have bargain basement deep cycle SLA lead batteries fail in 1 -2 years of careful usage. The lithium in contrast have been used 24/7 as a routine thing. My conclusion after going to them is they make off grid solar practical. Lead acid Off grid solar was the province of the well healed that could afford highly expensive FLA and be willing to maintain them.

My batteries came with no guarantees. I figure the first one has amortized itself now and continuing lifetime is simply a positive. If it should reach 3 years great. Longer would be impressive and 8 years (+) I will probably be too senile to come back here and report about it.

 

[45North]

Depends.
They don't really stop working totally; they just gradually hold less charge. So if you can live with that you can keep using them indefinitely.
You don't need to replace them until they are no longer useful for your particular situation. Or until they get too annoying, or until you win the Lottery.