diy solar

diy solar

Has anyone else realized how far we are away from running civilization fully on wind and solar?

You can’t force change or if you try you are going to end up in blood shed.

They can and do all the time, and nothing ever happens. If it does, at least we can blame it on green energy this time instead of communists and terrorism. You know what the communists and terrorists were upset about? Probably crap related to oil. Seems to always come down to oil, amazing that it puts it's dirty, greedy little butt into every problem.

Don't get me wrong, I like oil, it's immensely useful. But it's not good to be so nearly 100% dependent on something, that's called addiction, and it's bad. It makes you make bad decisions, for the wrong reasons.

(disclaimer, when I say oil.. I mean fossil fuels in general, which includes, coal, ng, petroleum, and any others I might not be familiar with in my ignorance)
 
@Biasjo

It's nice that you are at least consistent in your insistence that everything always has to work economically. Guess what, tons of things don't work economically (at least not to the benefit of the regular people) and we do them anyway. Sometimes things just have to be done, even if you don't make money on them. At least investment in green infrastructure has the remote possibility of being worthwhile, we spend more for less everyday.

You must realize that every industry in the world, even the most pointlessly mundane is or was subsidized in some way at some point? The bigger the industry, the more subsidized money it gets. Heaven forbid green energy get any of that money.

I grow weary of the carbon footprint of solar panels and batteries arguments. That can be said for every piece of worthless double and triple bagged / boxed thing we as consumers purchase. The amount of waste we generate and resources we consume on absolutely worthless, does nothing, garbage is near immeasurable. Yet, any time solar panels are mentioned, OMG, what about their carbon footprint?!
Boxes and bags are not pretending to help the environment.

What amount of electricity or global benefit has Every single person in the forum added up contributed to the global power output?

The Government has no money. It comes from us.
There is no Project that has ever been done that hasn’t had a cost benefit analysis except for the WPA during the depression and even then they did stuff that made sense not just threw money out there.

Go outside your community and look at what is happening to people who can’t afford to drive or wait until winter when people can’t afford to heat their homes.

The Elite pat themselves on the back while flying private jets to Davos while people are suffering without reason.
 
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They can and do all the time, and nothing ever happens. If it does, at least we can blame it on green energy this time instead of communists and terrorism. You know what the communists and terrorists were upset about? Probably crap related to oil. Seems to always come down to oil, amazing that it puts it's dirty, greedy little butt into every problem.

Don't get me wrong, I like oil, it's immensely useful. But it's not good to be so nearly 100% dependent on something, that's called addiction, and it's bad. It makes you make bad decisions, for the wrong reasons.

(disclaimer, when I say oil.. I mean fossil fuels in general, which includes, coal, ng, petroleum, and any others I might not be familiar with in my ignorance)
Until there is a viable alternative then that’s what we have.

Solar and wind are not going to get us there.

And yes everything has a cost benefit analysis.

The Sun pours down massive amounts of energy during the day.

To use that we need to be able to capture it.

So you either develop a way to do that or you develop a cheaper alternative.

It’s pretty simple.

Your average person cannot afford to go 100% Solar or even a small % of solar.

Now the NEC is going to make DIY damn near impossible so that means you have to buy from Predatory solar companies that won’t be there next month.

I hear it now. “Well make the government own it”

I present Solyndra. Trillions Poof!!!
 
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@Biasjo

I can't believe you are really trying to blame the current economic situation on green energy? Was it solar panels that invaded Ukraine? Did solar panels cause worldwide crop failures and food price spikes? Did solar panels decide to price gouge everybody during a global pandemic, or was it large corporations and their never ending need to have a more profitable quarter than the last one?

I've been dirt poor and lived in a crappy trailer with a malfunctioning septic tank causing a huge puddle of nasty I had to leap over to get out of my trailer. Much like some others, I'm probably only a few paychecks, or one medical problem away from destitution, but I still want something better for our future.
 
Now the NEC is going to make DIY damn near impossible so that means you have to buy from Predatory solar companies that won’t be there next month.

Hey now, we agree on something finally. The rules for solar, particularly non grid tied solar are getting to be a bit much.
 
@Biasjo

I can't believe you are really trying to blame the current economic situation on green energy? Was it solar panels that invaded Ukraine? Did solar panels cause worldwide crop failures and food price spikes? Did solar panels decide to price gouge everybody during a global pandemic, or was it large corporations and their never ending need to have a more profitable quarter than the last one?

I've been dirt poor and lived in a crappy trailer with a malfunctioning septic tank causing a huge puddle of nasty I had to leap over to get out of my trailer. Much like some others, I'm probably only a few paychecks, or one medical problem away from destitution, but I still want something better for our future.
So some little country that most have no idea where it is that produces absolutely Very little Oil has suddenly hamstrung the most powerful country in the world???

They are ABSOLUTELY the SOLE reason for the situation in the world?
Come on man.

So the oil companies only gouge people when Democrats are in charge?
The President didn’t shut down every pipeline or drilling operations or permit’s?

He didn’t go on TV and state Yes I am doing this to push my Green initiative since I can’t get it passed through congress.
And since I know it’s coming we were in a GLUT of oil production when Trump negotiate a slow down in importing.

Getting your solar panels isn’t gonna make your life better.

Opportunity is what makes your life better not forced change to something non viable..

Hard work and personal responsibility drive innovation and expansion not Government.
 
The retail cost for electricity in the UK is about US$0.24 per kWh. At those prices it makes sense to put in place a small system that can supply half of your needs from solar and with energy prices expected to rise it would be foolish not to install solar with battery backup for at least some of your needs. There is so much solar going onto roofs right now that parts of the grid can not cope with all the electricity generated from solar during those few hours the sun shines.

Even if you do want to argue the cost benefits, you can look at it differently. There are battery shortages right now, manufacturing simply can not supply enough batteries to meet demand. That should tell you that industry itself is expecting a move to renewables and battery manufacturers can not ramp up production fast enough. Now if you want, you can let other countries subsidize the building of those factories and get a head start, but the smart thing to do is to build them locally so you are not dependent on countries like China.
 
Hard work and personal responsibility drive innovation and expansion not Government.
That is a misconception.

In the US the average CEO received $670 in compensation for every $1 the worker received, you can not tell me that the CEO works 670 as hard as the worker.

Governments set the conditions where any one can succeed, which means providing quality education, law and enforcement of those laws. Standards to adhere to and working conditions that reduce the exploitation of those who are not as smart as you. Government has a huge role, even if it was only to enforce contract law and prevent theft.

I am a systems administrator and the joke in the industry is that good systems administrators are lazy. I know that it is true because I worked hard writing routines that would automate most of my repetitive work, just so I could be lazy.

Personal responsibility is something that I cherish as well, but it would be naive to think that when there is big money to be saved by dumping waste products into the environment, regardless if it is arsenic from gold mines into rivers, or CO2 in the air, that people would be as ethical as you or I.

If you want innovation, fund research in universities, patent those innovations and allow the products to be made by manufacturers at a fee.
 
The retail cost for electricity in the UK is about US$0.24 per kWh. At those prices it makes sense to put in place a small system that can supply half of your needs from solar and with energy prices expected to rise it would be foolish not to install solar with battery backup for at least some of your needs. There is so much solar going onto roofs right now that parts of the grid can not cope with all the electricity generated from solar during those few hours the sun shines.

Even if you do want to argue the cost benefits, you can look at it differently. There are battery shortages right now, manufacturing simply can not supply enough batteries to meet demand. That should tell you that industry itself is expecting a move to renewables and battery manufacturers can not ramp up production fast enough. Now if you want, you can let other countries subsidize the building of those factories and get a head start, but the smart thing to do is to build them locally so you are not dependent on countries like China.
I don’t disagree if you can afford to do that.
Most cannot.
The underlying question is WHY is the cost of energy going up so dramatically considering nothing has happened to the supply?

Now in Your case Europe became dependent on Russian oil and Gas.
I will let you ponder that one.

In our case Production was purposely curtailed to bring about pain to convert. No other reason.

Our Government has absolutely no intention of bringing any manufacturing to the US.
They do not want an independent sovereign nation with content citizens.

You need chaos to promote solutions.
If no problems then nobody needs politicians.

Your averaged citizen cannot just “Go start “ a battery manufacturer.

It really irrelevant because all this is being driven as some kind of save the planet nonsense while warlords are forcing kids in the DRC to grub for Cobalt for the batteries.

You cannot force change without innovation.

Much Higher density storage is needed for this to have any affect.

What needs to be done is we have enough fossil fuels left for quite a while.
During that time if you are serious come up with serious alternatives.

Forcing change at the expense of half the population is only going to breed contempt and then a Revolution.
 
That is a misconception.

In the US the average CEO received $670 in compensation for every $1 the worker received, you can not tell me that the CEO works 670 as hard as the worker.

Governments set the conditions where any one can succeed, which means providing quality education, law and enforcement of those laws. Standards to adhere to and working conditions that reduce the exploitation of those who are not as smart as you. Government has a huge role, even if it was only to enforce contract law and prevent theft.

I am a systems administrator and the joke in the industry is that good systems administrators are lazy. I know that it is true because I worked hard writing routines that would automate most of my repetitive work, just so I could be lazy.

Personal responsibility is something that I cherish as well, but it would be naive to think that when there is big money to be saved by dumping waste products into the environment, regardless if it is arsenic from gold mines into rivers, or CO2 in the air, that people would be as ethical as you or I.

If you want innovation, fund research in universities, patent those innovations and allow the products to be made by manufacturers at a fee.
If there were other places to work
Then CEOs would not be making 660 times their employees.

They have limited your choices to work or die in very few places.

They have burden small businesses so much with regulations and taxes that they can’t grow.

They allow corporations like Alphabet ,etc to squash new technology and innovations so they can continue raking in Billions.
They all all part of the same club and we ain’t in it.

You can’t just leave and go somewhere else so they continue to do what they do.
There is no more free market when 6 or 7 transnational corporations own everything.

University are full to the brim with all these save the planet types and do ABSOLUTELY nothing but rile up the population!
Absolutely Zero innovation that makes it to market.

Your mixing Ethics and Innovation.
You can do both but most won’t.

Government HAS LONG OVER STEPPED it’s mandates.
It doesn’t care about you or your life.
It is run but a bunch of elitist who want to do nothing but keep you grinding away so they can do nothing.

Government needs to be scrapped and put back to its original mandate.

University back to it’s original intent which is to instill higher learning and innovation not worry about pronouns.

Personal Freedom and capital markets grew this country from nothing to its heights.

The global elites flying to Davos in there private jets can’t have a solid Sovereign country.

They want a one world communist government with them in charge.

All this solar , climate crap is just a distraction to keep people fighting each other rather than them.

The prices of energy are being manipulated to bring pain. Period.

They finance think tanks just to keep everything in turmoil.
No solution can be proposed by politicians if there aren’t any problems.

Writing scripts to automate tedious work isn’t lazy.


The problem is when I started as an Network engineer you knew the entire network from top to bottom.

Now they have broken it in so many pieces not one person has any idea how it all works.
Just their little piece.

Then you have managers of these department trying to dictate policies on something they don’t even know how it works.

Not to mention hiring people who have no clue how anything works but they meet certain “Diversity” requirements.

The whole thing is a joke.
 
I don’t disagree if you can afford to do that.
Most cannot.
There are two ways to look at it

If we look at house prices, most of the money is spend on the land to build the home on. (Although modern homes are way to big for the land area) If you increase the price of the house, by mandating insulation and solar, the price of the land will have to be reduced as people can't afford it.

If we look at mortgages, we calculate those on the ability to pay them back. And one of the costs is the costs of electricity, if you reduce that, you can afford solar.

In the end the cost to switch to solar is minimal.

The underlying question is WHY is the cost of energy going up so dramatically considering nothing has happened to the supply?
The cost of energy is based on world prices. The US and it's allies has an embargo on three major suppliers, Venezuela, Iran and more recently Russia. Markets react to perceived issues and are not as rational as some might believe. There is evidence that suggests that big oil is price gouging. Just compare crude prices with the price you pay at the pump over time.

Now in Your case Europe became dependent on Russian oil and Gas.
There was a believe that Russia would act in it's own best interest if we bought their products. When countries mutually benefit from trade anything that could impact negatively on the trade would be politically unsavory. Nationalism yet again showed how that is not a safe assumption. (Americans could also learn from that)

I will let you ponder that one.
I did, I was wrong, I underestimated nationalism in Russia.

In our case Production was purposely curtailed to bring about pain to convert. No other reason.
In your case you had to deal with world prices, Shale oil is expensive and could not compete. Trump himself lobbied OPEC to reduce production so prices would rise.

Our Government has absolutely no intention of bringing any manufacturing to the US.
Actually, your government does and continues to do so. Sometimes they fail. look at Solyndra. But overall they are successful.

They do not want an independent sovereign nation with content citizens.
Every government claims they want independence, but lets face it, no nation can be independent. And if you want content citizens have a look at the world happiness index. And one of the things you might want to try is to stop bitching yourself and smell the roses.

You need chaos to promote solutions.
No you don't.

If no problems then nobody needs politicians.
I agree 100%

Your averaged citizen cannot just “Go start “ a battery manufacturer.
Nope, you need massive capital in order to do that. You can also do that collectively, but then you get accused of communism.

It really irrelevant because all this is being driven as some kind of save the planet nonsense
The world will be still exist long after mankind has been wiped from the planet.

while warlords are forcing kids in the DRC to grub for Cobalt for the batteries.
It is shocking isn't it, I totally agrree. Now imagine if only they had a functioning government with a judicial system to stop that?

You cannot force change without innovation.
You can, religion does that successfully, then again all gods are man made inventions.

Much Higher density storage is needed for this to have any affect.
In the material world we look at cost effectiveness, energy density does not have to be synonymous with being cost effective.

What needs to be done is we have enough fossil fuels left for quite a while.
We can and will switch to renewables, it is pretty obvious to me that we will. Nuclear is expensive and takes to long to build although I hope we can make small nuclear reactors cheap and safe.

During that time if you are serious come up with serious alternatives.
The alternatives exist already. Imagine a world where fossil fuels do not exist, do you think human kind is to stupid not to make alternative energy sources that exist already work?

Forcing change at the expense of half the population is only going to breed contempt and then a Revolution.
Like forced birth that the majority of Americans oppose?
 
If there were other places to work
Then CEOs would not be making 660 times their employees.

They have limited your choices to work or die in very few places.

They have burden small businesses so much with regulations and taxes that they can’t grow.

They allow corporations like Alphabet ,etc to squash new technology and innovations so they can continue raking in Billions.
They all all part of the same club and we ain’t in it.

You can’t just leave and go somewhere else so they continue to do what they do.
There is no more free market when 6 or 7 transnational corporations own everything.

University are full to the brim with all these save the planet types and do ABSOLUTELY nothing but rile up the population!
Absolutely Zero innovation that makes it to market.

Your mixing Ethics and Innovation.
You can do both but most won’t.

Government HAS LONG OVER STEPPED it’s mandates.
It doesn’t care about you or your life.
It is run but a bunch of elitist who want to do nothing but keep you grinding away so they can do nothing.

Government needs to be scrapped and put back to its original mandate.

University back to it’s original intent which is to instill higher learning and innovation not worry about pronouns.

Personal Freedom and capital markets grew this country from nothing to its heights.

The global elites flying to Davos in there private jets can’t have a solid Sovereign country.

They want a one world communist government with them in charge.

All this solar , climate crap is just a distraction to keep people fighting each other rather than them.

The prices of energy are being manipulated to bring pain. Period.

They finance think tanks just to keep everything in turmoil.
No solution can be proposed by politicians if there aren’t any problems.

Writing scripts to automate tedious work isn’t lazy.


The problem is when I started as an Network engineer you knew the entire network from top to bottom.

Now they have broken it in so many pieces not one person has any idea how it all works.
Just their little piece.

Then you have managers of these department trying to dictate policies on something they don’t even know how it works.

Not to mention hiring people who have no clue how anything works but they meet certain “Diversity” requirements.

The whole thing is a joke.
You need to calm down, France tried the guillotines and it took took generations to recover from that.
 
There are two ways to look at it

If we look at house prices, most of the money is spend on the land to build the home on. (Although modern homes are way to big for the land area) If you increase the price of the house, by mandating insulation and solar, the price of the land will have to be reduced as people can't afford it.
Who decided they are way to big? You?

If we look at mortgages, we calculate those on the ability to pay them back. And one of the costs is the costs of electricity, if you reduce that, you can afford solar.
Mortgage has absolutely nothing to do with Utilities.

In the end the cost to switch to solar is minimal.


The cost of energy is based on world prices. The US and it's allies has an embargo on three major suppliers, Venezuela, Iran and more recently Russia. Markets react to perceived issues and are not as rational as some might believe. There is evidence that suggests that big oil is price gouging. Just compare crude prices with the price you pay at the pump over time.
Funny we are still buying Russia oil and Giving China Oil from our strategic reserve.

There was a believe that Russia would act in it's own best interest if we bought their products. When countries mutually benefit from trade anything that could impact negatively on the trade would be politically unsavory. Nationalism yet again showed how that is not a safe assumption. (Americans could also learn from that)
We are Not a world. We are nations with cultures , certain resources. If you want to specify each country makes some NOT made by other countries so you are not competing against 1.5 billion slave labor then fine.
Until that day occurs every nation is looking out for itself. Why we shouldn’t is beyond me.

I did, I was wrong, I underestimated nationalism in Russia.


In your case you had to deal with world prices, Shale oil is expensive and could not compete. Trump himself lobbied OPEC to reduce production so prices would rise.


Actually, your government does and continues to do so. Sometimes they fail. look at Solyndra. But overall they are successful.
Solyndra and every other Government sponsored solar company has failed.
Most were just giant money laundering schemes.

Every government claims they want independence, but lets face it, no nation can be independent. And if you want content citizens have a look at the world happiness index. And one of the things you might want to try is to stop bitching yourself and smell the roses.
Don’t care about the rest of the world happiness.
Not our job to contribute to their happiness.
It’s their job.

No you don't.


I agree 100%


Nope, you need massive capital in order to do that. You can also do that collectively, but then you get accused of communism.
Nobody has ever been accused of Communism for trying to develop capital for a project.
The world will be still exist long after mankind has been wiped from the planet.
Then why are all these Climate alarmist Screaming the sky is failing??
It is shocking isn't it, I totally agrree. Now imagine if only they had a functioning government with a judicial system to stop that?
Tried that and then get accused of meddling in foreign affairs.
You can, religion does that successfully, then again all gods are man made inventions.

In the material world we look at cost effectiveness, energy density does not have to be synonymous with being cost effective.

Why build it if it doesn’t meet the needs?
It’s a waste. Everything has a cost benefit analysis or it’s a waste of time energy and resources.
We can and will switch to renewables, it is pretty obvious to me that we will. Nuclear is expensive and takes to long to build although I hope we can make small nuclear reactors cheap and safe.
How exactly are you going to run Heavy industry? Your not. You can’t with what we have.
That’s a delusion.
The alternatives exist already. Imagine a world where fossil fuels do not exist, do you think human kind is to stupid not to make alternative energy sources that exist already work?
Yes they are that stupid.
Like forced birth that the majority of Americans oppose?
You want to argue constitutional law now?
RoeVwade was NEVER in our founding constitution.
Where did you get your statistics? MSM?

It has gone to the states for interpretation just like intended.
They had years to codifying it, instead they used it as a stick for fundraising.

Most states Still allow Abortion for a rape and Incest up to a certain time.
If they don’t. Well blame the people who waited 50 years to codify it.

If there wouldn’t have been a push to kill babies right up to and including after birth then it would have been left alone just like it was for 50 years.
 
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You need to calm down, France tried the guillotines and it took took generations to recover from that.
Sorry not calming down.
The French might try it again.
Maybe this time they will get it right.
 
RoeVwade was NEVER in our founding constitution.
Your argument was "Forcing change at the expense of half the population is only going to breed contempt and then a Revolution."

Don't know if you have noticed, but women make up about half the population.

And according to polling data 61% of U.S. adults say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, while 37% think abortion should be illegal in all or most cases.


Sorry not calming down.
And that is why so many people fear the U.S. is about to destroy itself.
 
Your argument was "Forcing change at the expense of half the population is only going to breed contempt and then a Revolution."

Don't know if you have noticed, but women make up about half the population.

And according to polling data 61% of U.S. adults say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, while 37% think abortion should be illegal in all or most cases.



And that is why so many people fear the U.S. is about to destroy itself.
I got a Poll for You Clinton 95% Trump 5%.

The death Penalty is Codified and Roe V Wade is not.
You don’t like our constitution. Tough shit.

The USA will be fine and dandy after a few things happen. Worry about your own part of the world.

Please go away now and rethink your life..

I am done with you..
 
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I got a Poll for You Clinton 95% Trump 5%.

You don't care much for facts do you? Women make up half the population and you force them to give birth.

The death Penalty is Codified and Roe V Wade is not.
I am not familiar with your constitution, maybe you can be so kind as to point to the passage in your constitution where the death penalty is codified?

You don’t like our constitution. Tough shit.
I don't like nor dislike your constitution, I am not familiar with it. The bit that I do know is that it has been amended many times.

The USA will be fine and dandy after a few things happen.
No, the US will break up into seperate states, forget about "united"

Worry about your own part of the world.
I do, nationalism is a curse.


Please go away now and rethink your life..
Why do I have to go away, you can always leave yourself if you don't like to be defeated with your own arguments. I am always open to new ideas, I am always rethinking, which opens me up to the argument that I am indecisive.

I am done with you..
Yeah, you got beaten with your own argument and now you want me to go away, how childish.
 

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V2G, (Vehicle-to-Grid Webinar)
Link to a (imo) good Presentation.

I liked this part the most:
Jose Torre-Bueno’s presentation which starts at around 48:00.
And his remarks about the CPUC (California public utility commission) at 1:01:00.

 
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