If yours is a salt based softener system it will actually speed up deterioration of the anodes, etc. The HO Smith HP unit manual specifically calls this out for increased frequency anode inspections.
Heat Pump water Heaters
- Thread starter onokai
- Start date
Yea I saw the reviews also. But at this price I can just run it in straight electric mode if I lose the heat pump. 10 year parts warranty but I figure since it was a DIY installation they would find a way to not honor it.
Steel rusts.
Brett V
Solar Wizard
Yeah, GE says the anode will be "consumed more rapidly with artificially softened water". I need to check its condition. Still better than turning the whole tank in to one big block of stone.
OffGridInTheCity
Solar Wizard
I bought a 50gal Rheemes Hybrid Water Heater for ~$700 + ~$300 instant rebate at Home Depot in 2019 - e.g. cost me ~$400 out of pocket.
I cannot believe the current prices - seem way out of wack or did dumb me just happen to get the deal of a century in 2019?!? Not sure what's happening these days.
I cannot believe the current prices - seem way out of wack or did dumb me just happen to get the deal of a century in 2019?!? Not sure what's happening these days.
ksmithaz1
Solar / EV Junkie
The copper hot water pipe under my slab started leaking. Copper corrodes though it was 50+ years old. I've had a couple of three water tanks crack and leak. One destroyed a wall. I'm skeptical, but perhaps it's softer/more elastic/thicker?
ksmithaz1
Solar / EV Junkie
Back when I had one, my salt system did not run thru the HWH, it was cold water only. Interesting..
DIYrich
Solar Wizard
30% federal tax credit for HPWH.
OffGridInTheCity
Solar Wizard
30% off $1699 is still $1,189. That's a far cry from the $300 I paid (after instant credits) in 2019 + I got something off my taxes. Either the price in 2019 was insanely low or someone is jacking up the price here in 2024.
Rheem Performance Platinum 50 Gal. 10-Year Hybrid High Efficiency Tank Electric Heat Pump Water Heater XE50T10H45U0 - The Home Depot
Get a versatile update to your dwelling with the choice of this Rheem Performance Platinum Hybrid High Efficiency Smart Tank Electric Water Heater.
www.homedepot.com
ksmithaz1
Solar / EV Junkie
Ja, this is why I don't have one.
Not knockin ya, well, maybe jerkin the chain a little, but I wonder how long you will find that interesting enough to get the roi.
Of course, I've found there is often diminishing interest as time goes on, but there is always some level of control we will always want to be able to excercise at will. If there were not people like you pushing the edge of the envelope, we wouldn't get all the fun toys to play with!
That last few percent is always the most troublesome. Todays heat pumps are downright stunning for HVAC. I've mentioned in a few other threads, I'd go all electric if I went completely off-grid even in a northern area, and just have some backup via propane or wood. I just wouldn't want to crimp my lifestyle to get that 3%. I can't wait for summer, I added battery last fall, and made some overall improvements, my only grid usage the last 2 months was ~ $0.50 during a firmware upgrade. Pretty sure 60KWH is not going to make it thru the 100 degree nights. Bottom line is always what does it take to be grid-free.
You are down to shaving basis points, ROI gets worse and worse as you invest more money, so you've opted for heavier handed management to accomplish the goal. Nothing wrong with that. I think we are all about production and usage, just more around what we are willing to do to get there. I'm awed you are willing to get this creative! I'm sure it's something that brings you pleasure and satisfaction to see it come to fruition. That is what traveling thru life is all about! If you ain't having any fun why bother?
For those of you with HPWH's already, using it in heat-pump only mode how do you find the recovery time? Our shower is a water hog-- something like 12 gallons per minute. Usually showers are very short (<3 minutes of running water), but some days they go longer and back-to-back showers are common.
Our current water heater setup is solar with a total of 240 gallons of storage, resistance backup heat on one of the two tanks that gets used maybe 10 days per year. (The house was built as an AirBnB and could hold 20 surfers.)
If I went with a HPWH the solar HW would need to go; I can fit 3.2kW of PV panels in the same space easily.
Our current water heater setup is solar with a total of 240 gallons of storage, resistance backup heat on one of the two tanks that gets used maybe 10 days per year. (The house was built as an AirBnB and could hold 20 surfers.)
If I went with a HPWH the solar HW would need to go; I can fit 3.2kW of PV panels in the same space easily.
DIYrich
Solar Wizard
Running is 400 watts. Assuming 3x efficiency, that is an effective 1,200 watts. About 1/4 of a 5,000 watt resistance heating element. Mine ran almost all day (7 hours?) To do the initial heating of the 50 gal tank.
If I do the calculation right, it is about 7 gal/hrs to raise 60 degrees. Something like 50-60 gal first hour delivery rate. Heat to 145, and use mixing valve to reduce to 120.
It does have resistive heating element for faster heating.
If I do the calculation right, it is about 7 gal/hrs to raise 60 degrees. Something like 50-60 gal first hour delivery rate. Heat to 145, and use mixing valve to reduce to 120.
It does have resistive heating element for faster heating.
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Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
You are forgetting inflation.30% off $1699 is still $1,189. That's a far cry from the $300 I paid (after instant credits) in 2019 + I got something off my taxes. Either the price in 2019 was insanely low or someone is jacking up the price here in 2024.
View attachment 214358Rheem Performance Platinum 50 Gal. 10-Year Hybrid High Efficiency Tank Electric Heat Pump Water Heater XE50T10H45U0 - The Home Depot
Get a versatile update to your dwelling with the choice of this Rheem Performance Platinum Hybrid High Efficiency Smart Tank Electric Water Heater.www.homedepot.com
My business management system has a screen that pops up when entering in a vendor PO and invoice for a part number that was sold here before. Most items have increased by 45% since 2019, easily over 7% per year compounded.
The government lies about inflation. I finally figured out the true % increase per Kwh the utility is enacting over this year and next. The second year is compounded off the first year increase. It comes to 26% increase over those 2 years from last year.
$700 x 8% compounded yearly =$1028.53
$700 x 1.45 = $1015
That is the true rate of inflation since 2019.
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
Keep your solar water heater until it fails. Nothing is cheaper than something that is already paid for and running. 240 gallons is nice size, using a calculator for heat storage of 90°F to 130°F comes to about 23.5 Kwh. Heating water coming out of the ground at 55°F to 130°F is 44Kwh.
I figure 8 hours to fully warm up 50 gallon HPWH from about 55°F to 130°F. Compressor running is around 400W. Yes, I know the math doesn't seem correct with a COP of 3 to 4. It will depend on ambient temp where the water heater is located, COP is higher at lower water temp and higher room temp at the start due to Delta T. As the water heats up in the tank and room temp drops, the Delta T is lower and COP will drop.
Rider
Solar Addict
I've had one for a couple of years now. I run it solely in the heat pump mode, have never had to use the coils. Don't have details, but my electric use is down. No issues to date.
It's my understanding that AO Smith just puts their label on the heater, it's not "theirs".
I wouldn't want ABS for my water
I have had a PTF...E? 300 gal tank for like 15 or 20 years and it works fine, cost $200.
yep, pretty nice
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
PTFE: PFAS
PFAS is known as one of the forever chemicals. EPA has been shutting down farms that applied sewage sludge containing PFAS.
I live in the epicenter of the PFAS problem, in rural Maine. This whole issue with PFAS started (basically was discovered) here because years ago the state encouraged farmers to take sludge as a great source of fertilizer. It isn't really the US EPA that's "shutting down" farms, so much as some of the farmers themselves (people love to blame the govt, but in this case, they're actually a little bit behind on the issue). In fact, EPA only recently revised their PFAS limits (much lower). PFAS contamination will likely be a much bigger problem all over the US in coming years, as the effects of PFAS chemicals are just becoming more widely known. As you note, fields that have been fertilized with sludge are the big problem, and there are a lot of them.
Gold Country Russ
Solar Enthusiast
I'm thinking that I will leave my propane water heater as is and install a modified electric water heater as a preheater. I would use the existing water heater thermostat to control the coil of a high voltage DC contactor fed with either 116VDC @1,200W or 155VDC @ 1,600W from 3 or 4 panels. Will select optimal heater element ohms to match the PV voltage. By running the dishwasher and washing machine in the afternoon and evening showers the propane heater would seldom fire. 1,600W X 3.41= 5,456BTUH or about 10GPH of water heated 65degF (60-125F), so by noon or 1PM plenty of water all afternoon. Not counting the panels (I have extra) or electric water heater (free or Craigslist bargain) it might cost a couple of hundred dollars which equals something like buying 50 gallons of propane.
SilverState
New Member
Question for folks about HPWH with the heating element (non heat pump / hybrid). I was planning on using the "smart load" / excess-power-dump feature of my all-in-one inverter to put excess power into the hot water. But that means that sometimes (often) the hot water heater might want to use the resistor but the inverter won't be powering it. Does this cause a problem / fault?
Like at 0300 in the morning if the heater is looking to run the resistor it won't be powered on, but it most likely will at 1400 the next afternoon.
I know the Rheems want to see power on that resistor at startup just as a systems check, that should be easy enough because I just can boot up the Rheem when there's excess solar.
Just curious if any of you have played with that.
Like at 0300 in the morning if the heater is looking to run the resistor it won't be powered on, but it most likely will at 1400 the next afternoon.
I know the Rheems want to see power on that resistor at startup just as a systems check, that should be easy enough because I just can boot up the Rheem when there's excess solar.
Just curious if any of you have played with that.
Gold Country Russ
Solar Enthusiast
My opinion, HPWH is a great concept, however so far, the physical executions are short of wonderful. I will wait for the equipment designs to mature and prices to drop before purchasing.
If the current regime has their way, you'll be forced to buy one if your tank fails and you need a new tank, whether things are mature or not.
Yes, they're coming for our water heaters now
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
Smart water heaters can be programmed for time on/off. If you don't want the water heater to run during the night, you can program it to not run. Do not cut power to the unit, it isn't needed. Just program it to run during the day.
I turn my HPWH off at night when there is bad weather for several days. Doesn't affect the temp if you want to take a shower in the morning but I do have the 50 gallon propane in series so 100 gallons of hot water. I do have a thermostatic shower valve.
After owning a hybrid heat pump water heater, I would not choose any other electric water heater for my personal use There is the choice of heat pump and element (high demand) or only heat pump. Plus Eco mode.
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