Rednecktek
Solar Wizard
Diesel heaters I think would still be pretty good since they use so lottle electricity and fuel per BTU. Anything with an active fan would be better than anything radiant.
Heat without electricity recommendations.
- Thread starter squarpeg
- Start date
OzSolar
Whatever you did, that's what you planned.
Interesting idea. OP didn't mention if they had a basement but in theory a gas water heater in the basement plumbed to the upstairs radiators could actually work via a thermosiphon like the old school boilers did thus meeting the without electricity goal. If they did have to use small circulator pump that would be pretty minimal wattage.
robstrom
New Member
Are you trying to eliminate the woodstove as primary heat??
Maybe you just need a bigger stove, with more run time.
Maybe you just need a bigger stove, with more run time.
ElectricIslander
Solar Enthusiast
We have a 22,000 BTU Williams propane vented wall heater in our 1500 sq ft off grid cabin. It works pretty well.
We mostly use if for keeping the cabin from freezing during times we are away or rapidly warming the cabin when we arrive until the woodstove can take over. I replaced the ultra cheap analogue mercury switch thermostat that came with the heater with a programmable Honeywell Digital battery powered thermostat which I set at it's lowest level of 4.5 C when we are away.
Note the the current and power created by the mV thermocouple heated by the pilot light is really low and that any resistance in the wire loop or thermostat contacts will result in the gas solenoid not opening to start the main burner when heat is called for.
So make sure that you run thicker than normal wires to your thermostat !!
Also, my Honeywell thermostat has a multi-pin plug that allows pulling the thermostat off the wall to change batteries. The contact area of the pins (ok for more typical 24VAC power but not for mV power) is so small that the resistance on the pin contacts prevents proper operation of the mV furnace control unless the pins are squeaky clean. After a few months the pins oxidize (we are on an island ...) and I have to jostle the thermostat to get a connection. On my to do list is to direct solder the thermostat wires to the pins on the back of the thermostat and bypass the troublesome pin sockets.
Also looking for a good Wi-Fi mV thermostat that operates on battery power so I can remotely turn on the wall heater before arrival but most run on 120 VAC.
We mostly use if for keeping the cabin from freezing during times we are away or rapidly warming the cabin when we arrive until the woodstove can take over. I replaced the ultra cheap analogue mercury switch thermostat that came with the heater with a programmable Honeywell Digital battery powered thermostat which I set at it's lowest level of 4.5 C when we are away.
Note the the current and power created by the mV thermocouple heated by the pilot light is really low and that any resistance in the wire loop or thermostat contacts will result in the gas solenoid not opening to start the main burner when heat is called for.
So make sure that you run thicker than normal wires to your thermostat !!
Also, my Honeywell thermostat has a multi-pin plug that allows pulling the thermostat off the wall to change batteries. The contact area of the pins (ok for more typical 24VAC power but not for mV power) is so small that the resistance on the pin contacts prevents proper operation of the mV furnace control unless the pins are squeaky clean. After a few months the pins oxidize (we are on an island ...) and I have to jostle the thermostat to get a connection. On my to do list is to direct solder the thermostat wires to the pins on the back of the thermostat and bypass the troublesome pin sockets.
Also looking for a good Wi-Fi mV thermostat that operates on battery power so I can remotely turn on the wall heater before arrival but most run on 120 VAC.
12VoltInstalls
life passes by too quickly to not live in freedom
Efficiency is often interchanged (inaccurately) for expense. But it does indicate with some imagination and understanding that the wood costs so little per BTU that it is remarkably inexpensive.
In most northern regions the cost/btu of using propane is virtually the same as heating with grid electricity. Propane can be convenient but dollar efficiency is only in the price per gallon versus heating oil.
I know a lot of people in northern Vermont that have, too. But then there’s that spiderweb or buildup of dust or something and the burn gets some yellow and people die- especially after insulation upgrades.
I WOULD NOT DO THAT EVER
The air is already moving - convectively. That’s what makes them spin. I think those are a waste of money to satisfy the minds of the uninformed that need the visual comfort.
That has some attractive features, but…
Have you considered the 40k-BTU draft-induced pellet stoves? Cheaper than oil and way cheaper than propane or electricity per BTU. They offer an in-plenum water heating tube that will thermocyle to a storage tank and permit using a 12V circulator to transport some heat to other rooms or for domestic hot water.
This still makes one dependent on supply chain fuel (unlike wood) but- depending on region- offer 50% to 80% less cost per btu than propane and electric heating. AND IT RUNS WITH ZERO ELECTRICITY, is UL approved, and EPA compliant.
That’s what I would do, and will someday.
You can buy a small-volume pellet press for <$1000 that you can use to make your own pellets from blended hardwood/softwood chips from loggers and mix in brush, hay, dry field grasses for a ‘free’ component.
But straight up using pellets bought by the pallet is a huge savings over propane. And no electricity required.
Rednecktek
Solar Wizard
Not quite. Those use a thermocouple, usually about half way up between the base and where the big vanes start, to generate DC power. That DC power runs a small electric motor which spins the fan and forces the air through the blades and into the room.
You can even make your own.
12VoltInstalls
life passes by too quickly to not live in freedom
I was unaware of those.
But I still do not think them necessary.
I grew up in a centrally positioned wood stove heated house. Sure, it was warmer in the kitchen but we didn’t have any fans. None of us died.
cotswoldstony
New Member
Wood stoves need air to operate so they suck in warm air from the room pulling cold air from the outside via draught in windows/doors.
cotswoldstony
New Member
Wood stoves with outside air intake at the rear pull cold air making the fire work much better and do not pull cold air into the room pushing warm air towards windows and doors increasing room temperature lowering the amount of wood used.
cotswoldstony
New Member
Humidity is important it brings heat down from the ceiling keeping the room warmer so increasing humidity increases the temperature.
???
Humidity keeps humans from drying out when heated… keeps static electricity levels comfortable, and makes a human feel more comfortable with less heat needed… but I’ve never heard anything about moving levels of heat from it.
Increasing the humidity actually decreases the temperature a specific amount of heat will warm an area, since the water holds heat as well… but it will make HUMANS feel warmer.
cotswoldstony
New Member
For every 10 degrees c of heat the humidity in a room drops by 50% so for a room to stay warm and comfortable it needs to be around 50-60% humidity
Odd metric to use… humidity levels are a moving target. Number of occupants, leaky ness of the home etc will drastically affect humidity levels. I suppose a fixed volume of air raised a specific amount will result in a specific drop in relative humidity, but I’m unaware of a rule like that being accurate.
cotswoldstony
New Member
Check heating and ventilation building stats in the construction industry vapour control layer regarding humidity.
That's where the facts came from in my posting which also confirm rear outside air intake wood stoves work more efficiently.
That's where the facts came from in my posting which also confirm rear outside air intake wood stoves work more efficiently.
Rednecktek
Solar Wizard
One neat trick I've seen to alleviate that issue is to drill a 4" vent hole in the wall directly behind the woodstove close to the base and just install a dryer duct vent. The stove will get all the fresh air makeup it needs via that vent and the air gets pre-heated in the process by having to travel across the bottom of the stove to get to the air intake vents. A damper can be placed on the inside end to close off the vent when the stove isn't being used. That pretty much eliminates the cold air draft in the rest of the house from your windows and door seals leaking by to provide the fresh air makeup.
cotswoldstony
New Member
Modern buildings now use outside air in ventilation systems to circulate the air/heat/humidity for the vapour control layer around rooms to be able to use heat source pumps efficiently lowering the carbon foot print of the building.
I would like to understand how this assists heating a building… for cooling, sure, but heating is a different case, and aside from CO2 dispersal, not very helpful.
12VoltInstalls
life passes by too quickly to not live in freedom
Some of those facts are superstition
Virtually any fluid will suspend more .x. substance when it is less dense which is usually the case at higher temperatures, and lowering the temperature precipitates out substances.
You may have heard the word precipitation before.
Hotter air holds more moisture. Below the dew point (lower temperature) water comes out of suspension.
Yet external makeup air supplies for wood stoves are good. Sure, this negates some chimney effect of negative pressure on the building envelope, but makeup air has more relevance due to building envelopes having become quite tight over time for other reasons.
Wood stove gases can and do explode in the chimney or stove pipe when in a ‘tight’ building envelope and someone opens a door; if the natural draft is pulling against the tight building envelope- negative pressure- the woodstove suddenly gets a velocity boost and a lot of oxygen and ‘kaboom.’
What you’ve been reading isn’t written by science people.
curiouscarbon
Science Penguin
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2020
- Messages
- 3,022
condensation of water from air with cooling occurs because cold air can hold less moisture than warmer air.
i'm working on a DIY fridge. cold surfaces generally capture ambient water held in air. water accumulation in the cooled compartment must be engineered around
dew point is a significant aspect to work around in many situations, not only fridges.
air exchange with outside is also important sometimes. air pollution can result in periods where filtration is desirable. or even to temporarily suspend external air exchange.
kind regards, engineering is fun ??️
i'm working on a DIY fridge. cold surfaces generally capture ambient water held in air. water accumulation in the cooled compartment must be engineered around
dew point is a significant aspect to work around in many situations, not only fridges.
air exchange with outside is also important sometimes. air pollution can result in periods where filtration is desirable. or even to temporarily suspend external air exchange.
kind regards, engineering is fun ??️
I have never heard of such a thing as draft-induced pellet stoves. Will look into it. Thanks
