Hello everyone I am looking for advice!

[miketig]

Off Topic ! Should you have anything helpfull towards the DIY Solar Forum and helping others Please feel free to share it.
Thank You
Mike

 

[cs1234]

@miketig

The issue with buying random non UL approved/listed gear and hooking it up to your house is that you are going to be on the hook if it burns down or harms somebody. Your homeowners insurance is always looking for reasons to not payout, if they see any remnants of solar panels or batteries, they are going to pay very close attention to those and check for permits/inspections if any were needed.

The fire inspector is certainly going to look for the cause of the fire, and I'm amazed at the things they are able to find in the aftermath. They won't be pleased if a non permitted installation burned your house down, let alone if it damages other peoples property or public property.

I don't necessarily like the rules of the system, nor did I choose to be in this particular system, but here we are.

Being here on a DIY forum, we tend to be people that like to skirt around rules as much possible, following our inner sense of right and wrong, but you have to be careful when doing permanent house systems vs portable stand alone systems, as the rules are many, and the dollar amounts are high.

 

[JRH]

What?!

You do realize I hope that economists can demonstrate for 600 years how and why serfdom and slavery and all kinds of government treachery were overcome when economic and civil freedoms became more prevalent under a capitalist dichotomy, right?

If one has skills, marketable knowledge, or add value to a product, or purchase bulk and resell to the willing market I have a right and a moral responsibility to feed myself and family and secure my future profitably. But the more suppression of freedom the more corruption which ensures the masses are at best symbolically enslaved by those who didn’t, won’t, or cannot bribe or otherwise illegally leverage their prosperity. Capitalizing our investment in the market is how much of America eats everyday either by selling oneself to a business or taking the risks to engage in a business or productive trade.

Messing with production and supply and messing with the monetary system and covid etc combined with the general populace’s greed are why we’re in the pickle we’re in.

Now your talking you 12 v beast… I just walked away from that whole thing after reading that Nuevo - socialist trendy new Ge mindset comment from whoever that was…
without capitalism , we would all be serfs looking like the guy on the front Zepplin 4 album cover. Haaa.
Good reply…,
Jim….

 

[Durk_2007]

Off-grid orientation:
Let's say 12 used 375w panels ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/265775578295?hash=item3de1757cb7:g:AskAAOSw3Rxi2YQJ ) = $2100
Let's say an MPP all-in-one 6000w (https://www.mppsolar.com/v3/lvx6048/) = $1200 **You can expand up to 9 of them in parallel.
Let's say a couple of EG4 rack mount (https://eg4electronics.com/products/all-products/batteries/eg4-lifepower4-48v-100ah/) = $3000
Misc - panel mounting, wire, monitoring, x, y, z = $3000

This yields: 4.5kw PV, 6000w inverter, 10kwh battery bank. This might give 6,500kwh PV / 5,400kwh per year of consumable power for $9300. To many factors to estimate with any certainty!!! Another reason to start small (such as the checklist above) and then go from there.

I have almost this exact setup except 10*410w panels and producing 18-25kwh/ day average consumption before was 900-1200kw month now I'm between 100-450

 

[miketig]

Your Previous consumption rate is just about were I am at now wich is 750 to 1200 kw monthly, it sounds like a 7.5 to 10kw panel set with a 15 to 20 kw battery bank should handel my consumtion in full, In my area Southern NewEngland I think winter would be the most challenging time in meeting consumption needs, in general does anyone out there feel larger battery banks in a system ease up this problem?

 

[12VoltInstalls]

NewEngland I think winter would be the most challenging time in meeting consumption needs, in general does anyone out there feel larger battery banks in a system ease up this problem?

Not really.

If your solar isn’t able to fully recharge you by the time say, 60% of daylight has occurred you won’t have enough watts to refill a larger bank if the capacity of a smaller bank is already a concern.

I’m in northern vermont- this past winter I needed supplemental mostly because of the furnace fan from November through March. I probably would’ve needed supplemental power anyway in November and December with the lack of sun never mind short days.

 

[miketig]

@miketig

The issue with buying random non UL approved/listed gear and hooking it up to your house is that you are going to be on the hook if it burns down or harms somebody. Your homeowners insurance is always looking for reasons to not payout, if they see any remnants of solar panels or batteries, they are going to pay very close attention to those and check for permits/inspections if any were needed.

The fire inspector is certainly going to look for the cause of the fire, and I'm amazed at the things they are able to find in the aftermath. They won't be pleased if a non permitted installation burned your house down, let alone if it damages other peoples property or public property.

I don't necessarily like the rules of the system, nor did I choose to be in this particular system, but here we are.

Being here on a DIY forum, we tend to be people that like to skirt around rules as much possible, following our inner sense of right and wrong, but you have to be careful when doing permanent house systems vs portable stand alone systems, as the rules are many, and the dollar amounts are high.

Not really.

If your solar isn’t able to fully recharge you by the time say, 60% of daylight has occurred you won’t have enough watts to refill a larger bank if the capacity of a smaller bank is already a concern.

I’m in northern vermont- this past winter I needed supplemental mostly because of the furnace fan from November through March. I probably would’ve needed supplemental power anyway in November and December with the lack of sun never mind short days.

Ok, So then it probally would be a good idea to oversize the panels, perhaps that will help out with the lack of sun.

 

[miketig]

@miketig

The issue with buying random non UL approved/listed gear and hooking it up to your house is that you are going to be on the hook if it burns down or harms somebody. Your homeowners insurance is always looking for reasons to not payout, if they see any remnants of solar panels or batteries, they are going to pay very close attention to those and check for permits/inspections if any were needed.

The fire inspector is certainly going to look for the cause of the fire, and I'm amazed at the things they are able to find in the aftermath. They won't be pleased if a non permitted installation burned your house down, let alone if it damages other peoples property or public property.

I don't necessarily like the rules of the system, nor did I choose to be in this particular system, but here we are.

Being here on a DIY forum, we tend to be people that like to skirt around rules as much possible, following our inner sense of right and wrong, but you have to be careful when doing permanent house systems vs portable stand alone systems, as the rules are many, and the dollar amounts are high.

Choice is everything, You have a choice to be part of it or not , Add Maturity, Good Intent, Intelligence and Wisdom, and a person can do as they wish. There are good products out there that are not UL listed, Just as there are people out there that capable of doing things on there own without others telling it has to be done someone elses way or else. So lets take this DIY Solar Platform and get out the BETTER and SAFE information on products and processes of Diy solar systems to those that may need it and deserve it. All the stuff you mention above is about a particular governing system, Off Gridding is about being independent of that system, Change is happening through Independence, adding Maturity, Good Intent, Intelligence and Wisdom, Is going to make for a GREAT result !!

 

[np84]

I run an 18kw PV with a 108kwh battery bank and dual 12,000w inverters to power my home. It produces 18,000kwh of PV of which I get 15,000w of useable power a year. The system is fantastic in the sense that I can truly make my own power with minimal ongoing maintenance.

A key design issue is off-grid (battery + with grid or generator assist), grid-tie (no-battery + sell excess to grid) or hybrid (in-between).

A key scale issue is that in my location I get ~25% of the PV in winter I get in the summer. Use PVWatts for your location to see what you're likely to get- https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/pvwatts.php This allows me 8 months I could live comfortably 100% on solar but 3-4months of winter... is brutal. You either have to over produce in winter and waste power the rest of the year (or grid-tie sell to power company) OR have an assist plan (grid, generator, wind, hydro) for winter.

My best advice is to build a smaller but fully functional system - and get experience operating it. This will bring focus, answer questions, and you'll become clear over time as to what you want *exactly*.

Then expand until you reach your goals - e.g. start with 1 inverter but leave room for 2 or 3 or 4 you can parallel to increase available AC power. Start with 15 panels but leave room for 30, 45, 60, 100 panels. Start with 10kwh battery bank (if doing off grid or hybrid) but leave room to expand to 30kwh, 60kwh, 100kwh etc.

I am interested in a system similar to yours. Would you mind sharing what brands of inverters, panels, etc that you used? Also, an estimate of total cost? Thank you!

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

I am interested in a system similar to yours. Would you mind sharing what brands of inverters, panels, etc that you used? Also, an estimate of total cost? Thank you!

Array structures
- Roof Array using IronRidge - ~$1800
- Ground Array (DIY) using 2" pipe + Unistrut - couple of thousand

Panels - started with 285w and kept with this as I grew for ease of mix/match strings
- First batch - SolarWorld Sunmodule Plus SW285 - $250/panel (2018)
- Second Batch - DIY Ground mount using Hyundai Mono-Crystalline HiS285RG - $143/panel (2019)
- Third Batch - Used 9yr old panels from ebay @SanTan Solar - Suntech STP285 - $73/panel (2021)

Charge Controllers - 3 x Midnight Classic 150s - ~$700/controller

Battery - DIY 2nd hand 18650 - $200/kwh.
BMS - Batrium controller w/longmons - $600 + $22/longmon.

Inverters
- 2 x AIMs 12,000w - ~3100 each (2018)
- 2 x SGP 12,000w - ~2600 each (2023)

Wire Conduit, Boxes, Breakers, AC side panels, ATSs, etc - thousands of dollars.

----------------------------
Overall it's been a hefty chunk of change over 5+ years. As of this month I'm at 24.6yrs to break even @ 14.8c/kwh.

1,774 cycles to date (5 years) on the powerwall and hoping for another 20yrs (~6700 cycles). Power / kwh is only going up - for example at 40.0c/kwh the 25yrs shrinks to 9yrs to break even.

 

[Zwy]

Ok, So then it probally would be a good idea to oversize the panels, perhaps that will help out with the lack of sun.

I went with larger battery bank and less on panels. The larger bank allows for full yield on sunny days and power thru cloudy days.

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

I went with larger battery bank and less on panels. The larger bank allows for full yield on sunny days and power thru cloudy days.

Yea it's up to each person/situation to decide. Originally, as off-grid, I wanted to consume 100% of PV produced as to not waste any PV.

But over the years I've done some oversizing for better winter results which means I'm running ~20% unused in spring/summer right now and I'm OK with that. I don't want to be connected to grid (personal choice). I'll probably get an EV soon and that would consume my excess summer PV.

I've discovered it's journey rather than a static, one-time decision