Hello. I’m new here. 1st post. Looking for general input for electricity… remote cabin

[MisterSandals]

24v safety totally valid.

im thinking 3 panels around 1400 watts, 1 trophy battery @5100 wh, and a charge controller that allows for future expansion (60A is,enough ?)

1400W solar / 28V charging = 50A max charge rate

And when THEY use the cabin when the battery dies, it dies? (They can run off the genny?)

If you are incorporating this with your AIO, then make sure the AIO easily accepts generator input and preferably has an automatic transfer switch. A generator auto-start adds some complexity and cost, but if its reliable, it would be nice.

So what kind of daily watt hours are you expecting for "your use" and for "their" use? Are they drastically different?
Knowing your numbers is the key to proper sizing.

 

[Nan_wpg]

I’m not going AIO. Separates.

i. Going to go with 48v.
2. I’m not limited to 1400 watts, it’s a start (or maybe good enough). I just don’t want to buy a 30 a cc and then have to buy a bigger one. Easier to buy a bigger cc and then add panels if needed.

I have absolutely no idea the difference from our needs to their needs. It’s dependent on how beer, and pot is consumed. I know it’s absurd, but it is what it is. It’s why I considered my own system, and then lock it up when we are not there.

im going with a seperate charger too. I want my inverter to invert, and nothing else. I want it to invert the best. I don’t want to deal with wonky software, transfer switches, is the neutral bonded, not bonded, etc.

and it has to be wired so that it’s “similar” to how it is now (“plug the cabin into the generator”)


I just want a high quality system that will power OUR needs. 3k would easily do this with room to spare. They can always run the generator when the system shuts off.

 

[Nan_wpg]

Just another thought until I figure things out…..

currently we run the genny 3-6,hr per night (3 during summer, 6 in the fall).
we literally use lights, and Tv, (maybe 450 wh or so). Seems like a waste of power.

im thinking for time being just buy a 5k 48,volt lithium and a charger and inverter.

we could likely go 3-7 days on a battery. Then fire the generator for 3 hours To charge battery back up.

it’s not a full solar system but it’ll do. For now anyway. I may not have time to do,full solar as there are water supply issues to deal with as well.

just seems like a waste to run the genny each and every night for some simple things.

 

[AnarchyJet]

im going with a seperate charger too. I want my inverter to invert, and nothing else. I want it to invert the best. I don’t want to deal with wonky software, transfer switches, is the neutral bonded, not bonded, etc.

Sounds like you need a Victron Multiplus 48-3000. Add your favorite server rack battery and go. You can just leave it all wired up with a power in cord to the genny. When you hit LVD start it up. Then you can set your AC input limit to match the genny and not waste any watts. One thing to remember is generators have an efficiency curve. Just like all petrol engines, running them above 85% burns a ton of fuel for very little additional output. If I remember you have a honda 2000 or something similar. Limiting it to 10 amps would be much more fuel efficient and make it last a lot longer than trying to max it out every time to charge the battery as fast as possible.

 

[Nan_wpg]

Sounds like you need a Victron Multiplus 48-3000. Add your favorite server rack battery and go. You can just leave it all wired up with a power in cord to the genny. When you hit LVD start it up. Then you can set your AC input limit to match the genny and not waste any watts. One thing to remember is generators have an efficiency curve. Just like all petrol engines, running them above 85% burns a ton of fuel for very little additional output. If I remember you have a honda 2000 or something similar. Limiting it to 10 amps would be much more fuel efficient and make it last a lot longer than trying to max it out every time to charge the battery as fast as possible.

I dunno, I keep looking at the aio you posted in your first reply to me.

add the 48v rack and boom. wasnt even planning on panels,for now, but really I can do 600w of panels. 5 hours of sun gives me 3000watts minus whatever inneficiencies.

if I go this route my dilemma is how do I hook up to panels?? (Remember I don’t want permanent at this time, and I don’t want lots of work, in case the cabin “doesn’t work out”.

I can place the panels in the best spot and simply,wheel the cart to the panels and “plug in” or I can place the panels next to the shed (where AIO will be stored) And leave it plugged in all the time.

i,don’t want to be digging trenches or spending huge amount on wire at this time.

I could even mount a couple of panels on a wagon and wheel them to the best spot. Maybe put them on some type of fold out frame.

 

[Nan_wpg]

Damn, I forgot that’s a 24v AIO not 48. I’m thinking 48 is a better way to go??

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Damn, I forgot that’s a 24v AIO not 48. I’m thinking 48 is a better way to go??

Depends on expected kWh daily/hourly

I think people dive to 48V without thinking about it too often. In a robust whole house system 48V can be less money for several reasons including cabling but then use 20% of the AIO in my observation. I think this happens partly due to $60k and up systems being mortgaged so the $20k for their diy sounds cheap and then they add a $6k generator - when a $12k system including a little predator gen could suffice.
It’s their money….

 

[Nan_wpg]

Depends on expected kWh daily/hourly

I think people dive to 48V without thinking about it too often. In a robust whole house system 48V can be less money for several reasons including cabling but then use 20% of the AIO in my observation. I think this happens partly due to $60k and up systems being mortgaged so the $20k for their diy sounds cheap and then they add a $6k generator - when a $12k system including a little predator gen could suffice.
It’s their money….

I’ll either get 48v @100 or 24v @200 so it’s the same “power”

I figured 48 has less current (cheaper balance of system costs) and the fact that everything seems to be going 48v plus it allows for future expansion.

I really only need a small system but I also don’t like buying cheap, then buying again when I could have spent less over all by spending more in the first place if that makes sense?

 

[mvonw]

Greetings everyone. I’ll explain what we got, what I need (or think I need), and I’d like to explore different solutions.

im open to everything and let’s treat it as a clean slate. Money isn’t unlimited, but it isn’t scarce. Basically I’ll spend what I need to but not more than I have to.


anyway, I’m all ears

Very similar to where I started on my solar journey at my remote cabin. Aside from the technical design issues (there are many), I would advise you (if appropriate) to also consider the property resale issues down the road. If the property has value, it's worth investing in a more robust (read more expensive) system than your individual needs may currently require. I built a custom powerhouse for my batteries, inverter, generator, primary panel, etc. thinking that someone down the road may want to rebuild my 120 year old cabin (heaven forbid), but keep the new electrical bits. Building a system to last and be expandable cost a lot more..

 

[Nan_wpg]

Very similar to where I started on my solar journey at my remote cabin. Aside from the technical design issues (there are many), I would advise you (if appropriate) to also consider the property resale issues down the road. If the property has value, it's worth investing in a more robust (read more expensive) system than your individual needs may currently require. I built a custom powerhouse for my batteries, inverter, generator, primary panel, etc. thinking that someone down the road may want to rebuild my 120 year old cabin (heaven forbid), but keep the new electrical bits. Building a system to last and be expandable cost a lot more..

It’s a bit complicated. We own 10% of the property and currently will eventually own 37% via estate. The other eventual 63% owner uses the property 100% of the time, and contributes very little (work and financial).

on one hand I want to spend as little as possible (and also set it up so I can take it with me) but on the other buy once, cry once.

I need to keep my assets all mine and invest as little as possible in the actual cabin.

the amount Ive invested is small and I’m treating the cabin like a time share, and am prepared to walk away. But while I’m trying to make a go of things I wan to make it “easier” to the cabin via solar, etc

 

[AnarchyJet]

You have a lot a variable in your equation, so any system is going to be a big compromise. You not having much (or any) solar makes the standby consumption of the AIO's a big problem. Sounds like you are committed to a 5.12kwh battery in either 24 or 48v. The smaller Mpp 24v AIO is 25w and the 48v-3000w from EG4 and Growatt are around 70w, that's 30% of your battery in standby. The MPP2724 would need 600wh of solar per day to break even on standby, but is still an option for just battery/inverter/genny given the simplicity of it all.
Otherwise that's why I recommend the 48v multiplus, because of its efficiency. If you want to add solar later, get a SCC and panels. Good thing with the Victron is you could sell it for 75% of what you paid if things go south, a cheap AIO wouldn't be as high on resale.

 

[Nan_wpg]

You have a lot a variable in your equation, so any system is going to be a big compromise. You not having much (or any) solar makes the standby consumption of the AIO's a big problem. Sounds like you are committed to a 5.12kwh battery in either 24 or 48v. The smaller Mpp 24v AIO is 25w and the 48v-3000w from EG4 and Growatt are around 70w, that's 30% of your battery in standby. The MPP2724 would need 600wh of solar per day to break even on standby, but is still an option for just battery/inverter/genny given the simplicity of it all.
Otherwise that's why I recommend the 48v multiplus, because of its efficiency. If you want to add solar later, get a SCC and panels. Good thing with the Victron is you could sell it for 75% of what you paid if things go south, a cheap AIO wouldn't be as high on resale.

I don’t need to run the system 24/7. Just tired of hauling fuel, and my mini power pack for the c pap.

we COULD run the system in the evening, and sporadically during the day. Shut it down at night and use flashlights.

not sure on Victron‘s numbers, but morningstars new inverters have low consumption. The 2500w inverter uses 18w, and the 1250 uses 12.
that could be left on all nights (for lights in middle of night)

I could also just treat the battery/inverter on a cart like a portable power pack on steroids. Bring it out for the week fully charged and take it home to charge on mains power.

lots of options. Kinda in a weird spot. I want to “invest” to make a cabin nicer, but when others don’t help pay for things, AND use the things they didn’t pay for. I’ll show up and whoops we “forgot” to charge the battery.

once I attach things physically then it kinda becomes “the cabins’s” property.

good point about resale. I hadn’t given that much thought. Victron and Morningstar would fetch more money than the AIO.

have you looked at midnite’s AIO?

 

[12VoltInstalls]

COULD run the system in the evening, and sporadically during the day. Shut it down at night and use flashlights.

And that is one advantage of a 12V system: 12VDC has a plethora of excellent lighting options as well as plenty of 12V device chargers.

But depending on the kWh expected it could possibly not be practical

 

[Nan_wpg]

And that is one advantage of a 12V system: 12VDC has a plethora of excellent lighting options as well as plenty of 12V device chargers.

But depending on the kWh expected it could possibly not be practical

My shower is 12v. Cpap can run off of 12v. My current boggart charger will do 12 and 24 (it’s pwm).

I can totally use what I got. I just wanted a bit “better”.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

want to “invest” to make a cabin nicer, but when others don’t help pay for things…
once I attach things physically then it kinda becomes “the cabins’s” property.

2500w inverter uses 18w, and the 1250 uses 12.
that could be left on all night

Welllll…. what I would do considering this:

battery/inverter on a cart like a portable power pack on steroids. Bring it out for the week fully charged and take it home

…is put a couple 12V LiFePo on a hand truck for 280-300Ah of storage with a 2000W QZRELB/Reliable inverter (<20W idle, $250), and a Epever 40A SCC. Build it in a nice little cabinet integral with the hand truck and put 12” wheels on it for ease over terrain. Install SAE and ciggylighter 12V ‘outlets’ from a 12V fusebox, and wire up several outlets fed from the inverter through a bonded GFCI and an extension cord. Put transport brackets on the thing for a couple 200W panels or four 100W, and ground deploy while you’re there. Wheel it home when you go.

That’s what I would do.
And you’ll have 15A emergency backup at home and own it.

 

[Nan_wpg]

Welllll…. what I would do considering this:

…is put a couple 12V LiFePo on a hand truck for 280-300Ah of storage with a 2000W QZRELB/Reliable inverter (<20W idle, $250), and a Epever 40A SCC. Build it in a nice little cabinet integral with the hand truck and put 12” wheels on it for ease over terrain. Install SAE and ciggylighter 12V ‘outlets’ from a 12V fusebox, and wire up several outlets fed from the inverter through a bonded GFCI and an extension cord. Put transport brackets on the thing for a couple 200W panels or four 100W, and ground deploy while you’re there. Wheel it home when you go.

That’s what I would do.
And you’ll have 15A emergency backup at home and own it.

If I go with 12v I can use my 12v iota charger (just need the life4 adaptor), and I actually have a cheapo 12v inverter. It’s got a super loud cooling fan so I hate it (could leave it in the shed. )

I like that Morningstar has no fans.

nothing wrong with 12v. If I could use my boggart pwm charger with life4 then I don’t have to buy a cc.

id just need to buy the batteries. (And more panels)

 

[12VoltInstalls]

pwm charger

You’d be better off with this or the other similar model with the alternate screen

There’s a Victron in the $240 range. iirc
The Epever with the other display and PC connector cable is $230ish

 

[Nan_wpg]

A couple/few questions…… (context- portable solar hand cart with separates, not AIO)

1. How to disconnect safely? for now this will not be a permanent thing. I’ll be connecting and disconnecting to the array as needed. I’ve done this in the past with a small 12 volt system. No breakers or switches. I just cut off the “tabs” of the mc4 connectors and literally plugged/Unplugged the array.

2. Easiest way to “run” wires for the array? For now I will just run wire above ground and coil out of the way when not needed. If I decide to bury the cable can I just direct bury? Or is conduit the best?

 

[12VoltInstalls]

1. How to disconnect safely?

A properly designed and rated DC circuit breaker to disconnect before unplugging to avoid damage to the MC4, and while avoid damage to the MC4s contacts you will avoid experiencing a DC shock you will never let go of until probably a few minutes after rigor mortise subsides or sun sets, whichever comes first- probably sunset.

2. Easiest way to “run” wires for the array?

use this

If I decide to bury the cable can I just direct bury? Or is conduit the best?

Not best. The only way.
There are apparently UF rated solar wires but just do conduit. From a damage potential perspective conduit is best.

 

[Nan_wpg]

A properly designed and rated DC circuit breaker to disconnect before unplugging to avoid damage to the MC4, and while avoid damage to the MC4s contacts you will avoid experiencing a DC shock you will never let go of until probably a few minutes after rigor mortise subsides or sun sets, whichever comes first- probably sunset.

use this

Not best. The only way.
There are apparently UF rated solar wires but just do conduit. From a damage potential perspective conduit is best.

So basically either a disconnect at the array, or breaker at the controller input will suffice? For now I’d like it at the controller. Possibly a short di rail and breaker.

as for the array cabling I really don’t want to bury at this time. I’m in a precarious cabin situation and am not sure if it will be a longtime thing. Was hoping to hook up the array for the weekend, and then when we leave, unhook, and store the cables in the shed.

or I just skip the array for now and just charge the batteries with a charger.

im seriously considering a smaller power pack just for my c pap and just buy our own genny that I take home/leave at the neighbors when we aren’t there.