Hello. I’m new here. 1st post. Looking for general input for electricity… remote cabin

[Rednecktek]

Yup, you just need a DC rated breaker at the input and you'll be good to go. If you want to rig up something easier to disconnect and reconnect look at making an Anderson Powerpole connector on the end just so you don't have to fight the little clips all the time.

As for the wire, you can either get PV wire which is well insulated and UV resistant, or if you're feeling froggy bury a wire in conduit and just have an Anderson hanging out the end to plug into.

Another option that's cheap, easy, and expendable would be getting a cheap HF 12awg extention cord and re-heading it. It's UV resistant, waterproof, and if you somehow destroy it you're out $30 or so and won't feel as bad.

 

[Nan_wpg]

Yup, you just need a DC rated breaker at the input and you'll be good to go. If you want to rig up something easier to disconnect and reconnect look at making an Anderson Powerpole connector on the end just so you don't have to fight the little clips all the time.

As for the wire, you can either get PV wire which is well insulated and UV resistant, or if you're feeling froggy bury a wire in conduit and just have an Anderson hanging out the end to plug into.

Another option that's cheap, easy, and expendable would be getting a cheap HF 12awg extention cord and re-heading it. It's UV resistant, waterproof, and if you somehow destroy it you're out $30 or so and won't feel as bad.

Is there a safe voltage for no Breaker disconnect? I had a 150w panel i unplugged from the cc all the time.

I broke off the “clips” on my mc4 connectors for my portable rig. Didn’t want to deal with the removal tool.

I never thought about using an extention cord. I actually gave away a really nice one. Lol. I hate keeping,stuff, but you never know.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

breaker at the controller input will suffice? For now I’d like it at the controller. Possibly a short di rail and breaker.

If it is a good quality properly built DC breaker rated for you voltage. I’d venture most of the Chinese breakers are not safe.

Is there a safe voltage for no Breaker disconnect?

theoretically in a small system that only has two panels that don’t exceed the maximum fuse rating and the solar wire amp rating also exceeds the max fuse rating - yes.

But I don’t like that idea especially when you realize that USB charger cords have burned cars down at a few amps and 5V….
I actually know someone locally who melted out her SUV’s center console with a USB charging cord while she was in the grocery store. The cable end was in a cup holder with some coins in it. She came out, saw the problem, pulled the cord, and fortunately averted the pending car fire. Almost $2k to repair and it stunk of nasty plastic forever.

So at least fuse the panels in case some scenario occurs where things make heat or sparks is my advice.

 

[Nan_wpg]

This is my work in progress so battery cables are not routed yet but its 5.1KW of battery and a (much oversized) 6500W inverter and generator inlet with cutoff switch. Ill eventually switch to using the two external chargers in the bottom of the rack for charging the battery at 36A. I’ll eventually add a second battery for 10KW total and that means my generator can charge the battery bank up from 20% to 100% in just over 4 total hours assuming no solar input.

Currently sitting in my cabin waiting for the freezing weather to arrive ?

So a few months later, much research, and pondering…….

1. Did you end up trying the 150w coop heater? How was it?

2. Are you going to wire the chargers up, or just clamp them to the battery (or rack busbars?)

3. Are you using 1 or both chargers?

4. How big is your genny? Is it enough to run both chargers?

5. Why eq4?

6. Why 2 (eventually) 100a batteries instead of 1 220a battery?

im really liking the trophy batteries. Trying to decide if I want 100a, or 220. Customer service is prompt to answer emails. The eq4 guys, not so much.

I really like the new eq4 100a charger. Still trying to figure out how it switches from 120 to 240 (still waiting an email response).

at this point I’m thinking trophy battery, morning star (1250w, or 2500w not sure yet) inverter. Add some type of 48v charger and mount it all on a 2 wheeled hand cart.

basically an ecoflo on steroids. I may also just put the inverter on the battery (sideways). Was thinking a hand cart so I can wheel it away if needed. (Could also double as a mobile power supply for around the cottage property instead of luging the genny around.

if,things resolve at the cabin I can look at a charge controller and some panels (I’d still like to have a semi portable array solution.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Trying to decide if I want 100a, or 220

If money isn’t the final decision maker, 220Ah makes sense.
If money is a determinant, buy the 100Ah and as many pairs of 100W panels you can afford. You will not regret and you can affix hinges to selfportablize them.

 

[Nan_wpg]

If money isn’t the final decision maker, 220Ah makes sense.
If money is a determinant, buy the 100Ah and as many pairs of 100W panels you can afford. You will not regret and you can affix hinges to selfportablize them.

I can afford to buy the 220. Question is should I?

at the end of the day let’s say I end up at 200 ish amps am I better with 2-100’s or 1-220 ? Advantages? disadvantages?

honeslty I’m thinking 100a will be enough. 200 would allow for longer run time between genny use. If I end up with an array then the 100 makes sense.

still worried about an array keeping the batteries “full”. Lfp should t be left full. Or do I have that wrong? As long as they are cycled but topped up every day are they good?

im absolutely buying a 48v rack and an inverter. It makes no sense to run a genny every night for hours, just to power some lights, and Tv, and starlink

with 220 amps I could likely go for a week before needing to recharge. Again depending on usage.

ultimately I’d like to set up a system, and leave it on 24/7. Because it’s a shared cabin I can’t determine needs, nor can I guarantee others will respect the limitations.

we can always turn the system on and off,during the day as needed and leave it on all night for lights.

definatley building a super power box.

next year I can decide if I’m going all in, and wether or not I will lock the system up when we are not there.


sorry if I sound like I’m rambling

 

[12VoltInstalls]

I can afford to buy the 220. Question is should I?

at the end of the day let’s say I end up at 200 ish amps am I better with 2-100’s or 1-220 ? Advantages? disadvantages?

I personally nearly always opt for three characteristics in this order of priority if choice is available:

1. Redundancy. With two 100Ah if one has an issue you still have ‘something’ to run with.
2. Backup equipment. If something fails, I want to be able swap in another component- even if not “ideal” to buy the time to fix or order components to get out of the problem
3. Long-term perspective. Even if ‘accepting’ an economic choice that is sub-optimal long term, does it enable a better 6-month or 12-months situation? If not enabling a better plan in 12-months or whatever then I should choose either a solid longer-term solution - or the oft ignored option: do nothing. Not forever but do nothing and make a plan to create the cash in a reasonable time to buy in to the 5-year or 10-year best economic outcome.
4. BONUS: Scalability. Can I slide in additional capacity without rebuilding the entire system

In my case I had informedly decided to purchase two 100Ah lower-tier batteries that didn’t have a lot of complaints, but discovered that I could buy 140Ah batteries for essentially the same cost so I bought those because ‘long term’ I could add one more 140Ah and have ~2 days of storage capacity without rebuilding the system.

In your case I’d buy two 100- or 140Ah batteries and fuse separately to exceed your criteria.

I’m thinking 100a will be enough. 200 would allow for longer run time between genny use. If I end up with an array then the 100 makes sense.

I’d do the 200Ah with two batteries….

still worried about an array keeping the batteries “full”. Lfp should t be left full. Or do I have that wrong? As long as they are cycled but topped up every day are they good?

Longterm charging when no usage occurs is generally detrimental to LiFePo- they can and prefer to sit at, say, 70%
If using continuously just charge and cycle. You have the batteries to use the power, so use them. Whatever 5% lifecycle reduction- if that- isn’t a scary thing to avoid: it’s just part of having a usable system. “The cost of doing business” if you will.

absolutely buying a 48v rack and an inverter. It makes no sense to run a genny every night for hours, just to power some lights, and Tv, and starlink

Well the same principles apply. Even if not using 12V devices. I was incorrectly assuming a 12V system but the priorities of selecting don’t change, just the cost of entry.

with 220 amps I could likely go for a week before needing to recharge. Again depending on usage.

ultimately I’d like to set up a system, and leave it on 24/7. Because it’s a shared cabin I can’t determine needs, nor can I guarantee others will respect the limitations.

All the more reason to ‘mask’ the deficiencies with some solar. At the least it will disguise any capacity limits with a “delay” because daytime usage will get compensated and perhaps the batteries will get fully vaccinated with capacity on a daily basis.

we can always turn the system on and off,during the day as needed and leave it on all night for lights… building a super power box.

next year I can decide if I’m going all in, and wether or not I will lock the system up when we are not there.

Define your goal in three sentences, resolve that to three short bullet points. On paper.
Close your eyes, ears, and mind completely; freeze “what ifs” and buy/build to the bullet points. Get it running.
Then let circumstances in six and twelve months reveal how to manage the future once it arrives and reveals actually what happens in practice.

Sorry: totally entrepreneurial approach here, basic decision making just without the considerations of how to achieve a profit you normally want in business.
But it’s the only way I know how to achieve goals. I’ve never been able to buy a gallon of milk with warm fuzzies?‍

 

[Nan_wpg]

I personally nearly always opt for three characteristics in this order of priority if choice is available:

1. Redundancy. With two 100Ah if one has an issue you still have ‘something’ to run with.
2. Backup equipment. If something fails, I want to be able swap in another component- even if not “ideal” to buy the time to fix or order components to get out of the problem
3. Long-term perspective. Even if ‘accepting’ an economic choice that is sub-optimal long term, does it enable a better 6-month or 12-months situation? If not enabling a better plan in 12-months or whatever then I should choose either a solid longer-term solution - or the oft ignored option: do nothing. Not forever but do nothing and make a plan to create the cash in a reasonable time to buy in to the 5-year or 10-year best economic outcome.
4. BONUS: Scalability. Can I slide in additional capacity without rebuilding the entire system

In my case I had informedly decided to purchase two 100Ah lower-tier batteries that didn’t have a lot of complaints, but discovered that I could buy 140Ah batteries for essentially the same cost so I bought those because ‘long term’ I could add one more 140Ah and have ~2 days of storage capacity without rebuilding the system.

In your case I’d buy two 100- or 140Ah batteries and fuse separately to exceed your criteria.

I’d do the 200Ah with two batteries….

Longterm charging when no usage occurs is generally detrimental to LiFePo- they can and prefer to sit at, say, 70%
If using continuously just charge and cycle. You have the batteries to use the power, so use them. Whatever 5% lifecycle reduction- if that- isn’t a scary thing to avoid: it’s just part of having a usable system. “The cost of doing business” if you will.

Well the same principles apply. Even if not using 12V devices. I was incorrectly assuming a 12V system but the priorities of selecting don’t change, just the cost of entry.

All the more reason to ‘mask’ the deficiencies with some solar. At the least it will disguise any capacity limits with a “delay” because daytime usage will get compensated and perhaps the batteries will get fully vaccinated with capacity on a daily basis.

Define your goal in three sentences, resolve that to three short bullet points. On paper.
Close your eyes, ears, and mind completely; freeze “what ifs” and buy/build to the bullet points. Get it running.
Then let circumstances in six and twelve months reveal how to manage the future once it arrives and reveals actually what happens in practice.

Sorry: totally entrepreneurial approach here, basic decision making just without the considerations of how to achieve a profit you normally want in business.
But it’s the only way I know how to achieve goals. I’ve never been able to buy a gallon of milk with warm fuzzies?‍

all valid stuff here. I never thought about redundancy for battery storage. The thing I don’t like about AIO is (a) lack of redundancy , (b) seems to be cheap Chinese made stuff with lack of, of zero support

my goal is to be less reliant on a generator, eventually only using it as a back up. I want good quality, safe, reliable equipment with good customer support should I need it. Although my needs are small at this time, I like to keep doors open in terms of future expansion.

the plan was a 49v rack, Morningstar inverter, and the new eq4 100a charger. I was entertaining the 24v AIO anarchy posted early on, but I feel 48v is the way to go. It seems to be what everyone is doing now.

im now skittish on the eq4 charger. Ive sent emails asking about some issues with no response.

im now thinking trophy 100a (for now) battery, and a Victron multiplus. if I need more storage I can always add another battery. If I want to complete the system I can add a cc from vicitron.

If Morningstar sold an AIO I’d buy it. Same with Victron. (V sells an AIO but not for North America).

 

[Mattb4]

... The thing I don’t like about AIO is (a) lack of redundancy , (b) seems to be cheap Chinese made stuff with lack of, of zero support ...



If Morningstar sold an AIO I’d buy it. Same with Victron. (V sells an AIO but not for North America).

You can gain redundancy with a cheap Chinese AIO by buying a spare. Chances are you can buy 3-4 for the price of the Tier one's especially when you also need to buy peripherals to have the same functionality of the cheap Chinese units. Sadly you are mostly on your own (though there are helpful folks here at this Forum) for support. A few resellers are willing to try to back up what they sell but let's face it they get almost no real help from the Chinese companies.

However I do agree it would be nice to see a better made off grid AIO from a reputable company that did not require buying a panoply of add ons. A good heavy duty unit with a Warranty that means something. Parts and service available. Sized not for somebodies urban/suburban McMansion but instead for the more modest goals of a cabin or sorta (could have grid but want to use solar when possible) off-grid homestead.

 

[Nan_wpg]

You can gain redundancy with a cheap Chinese AIO by buying a spare. Chances are you can buy 3-4 for the price of the Tier one's especially when you also need to buy peripherals to have the same functionality of the cheap Chinese units. Sadly you are mostly on your own (though there are helpful folks here at this Forum) for support. A few resellers are willing to try to back up what they sell but let's face it they get almost no real help from the Chinese companies.

However I do agree it would be nice to see a better made off grid AIO from a reputable company that did not require buying a panoply of add ons. A good heavy duty unit with a Warranty that means something. Parts and service available. Sized not for somebodies urban/suburban McMansion but instead for the more modest goals of a cabin or sorta (could have grid but want to use solar when possible) off-grid homestead.

100% with you on everything you say.

I did think about a cheap AIO and have a second “back up” unit. But after researching more, I found the documentation lacking, confusion on how neutral bonding/switching happens (if at all), lack of support from either vendor, or other and I just can’t.

morningstars manuals are crystal clear on installation. Same for Victron. And if I can find (or don’t understand) the information in the manual each and everyone of my emails have been answered.

i agree on a quality AIO from a tier one company would be great. Something for a small cabin. until then, the closest I can get is a Victron multipLus.

morningstar is plain old simple, and heavy duty made. Victron is nice, and I like the “system” approach. Victron I can have my semi AIO with a multi plus and seperate cc.

I also thought about a quality inverter with low consumption, and then use the cheap AIO for inverting and charging.

my only issue with a complete “seperate” system is finding a quality 48v charger. I don’t know if it exists. All I can find is the alibaba type chargers.

 

[Mattb4]

You can get 48v LiFePO4 chargers that are industrial in quality but the price of them will give you a heart attack. I suspect that is why many just stick to using the AIO for charging purposes or one of the many cheap Chinese imported chargers.

 

[Nan_wpg]

You can get 48v LiFePO4 chargers that are industrial in quality but the price of them will give you a heart attack. I suspect that is why many just stick to using the AIO for charging purposes or one of the many cheap Chinese imported chargers.

Can you point me in the right direction for a quality (industrial) charger?

I looked at noco and iota. Iota has a small 48v. Noco has a 20a for 550. double the cost of a cheap charger. Not sure if it’s “better”? I could just get 2 cheaper chargers (whatever trophy sells) and have double charging, and redundancy in case of failure.

I think the problem is too much choice, lol.

 

[Mattb4]

I have no personal reccomendations so it simply is making a search for ones off the net. You might look at Lithium battery store https://www.lithiumbatterystore.com/battery-chargers/ their prices are not too bad. I notice that BatterySpace https://www.batteryspace.com/Smart-Charger-15-A-for-51.2V-16-cells-LiFePO4-Battery-Pack.aspx has this model that has BMS communication

 

[Nan_wpg]

Those all look like the same Chinese chargers.

screw it. 48v battery, eg4 AIO. (Which I’d likely buy anyway as a charger). I,think,consumption was around 50-75mwatts. I can add a better inverter if needed.

I’ve got,an internet headache,from,all the,research.

 

[UpNorthMan]

One thing that I haven't read in the post is the VOC of the panels. My 48v system is located in Northern MN USA. We often get -40F / -40C (same temperature) or colder. The record is -62F and is only 20 mile away as the crow flies. I've read that in order for a mppt charge controller to work its magic efficiently. It needs VOC to be 130% of the highest charging voltage. I know lithium batteries don't charge at 60v, but it makes easy math. 60v * 130% = 78v minimum VOC. When panels heat up they decrease in voltage. The cooler the, higher voltage. In the summer, your panels are sure to heat up a bit from standard test conditions. So I would guess a minimum of 82 VOC. But in the winter it increases. At -60F (around -49C) the same panels with produce 102v. Not to scare you, but you also need a charge controller that can handle the higher voltage. My system has a VOC around 110v (at standard test conditions)to help with the cloudy days. At -62F that's 138v. I bought a Midnite Kid because of this. There are other charge controllers that can handle the higher voltage. This is something that you need to take in consideration when going through the planning process. Midnite Solar has a very handy calculator for figuring out the output voltage and amps.

MidNite Solar - KID Sizing Tool.

MidNite Solar is the industry leader and manufacture of quality Renewable Energy System electrical components and E-Panels.

www.midnitesolar.com

Just remember that if you buy high quality products and install it safely. 100v dc can be just as safe as 120v ac

Good luck and have fun.
Ed

 

[Nan_wpg]

One thing that I haven't read in the post is the VOC of the panels. My 48v system is located in Northern MN USA. We often get -40F / -40C (same temperature) or colder. The record is -62F and is only 20 mile away as the crow flies. I've read that in order for a mppt charge controller to work its magic efficiently. It needs VOC to be 130% of the highest charging voltage. I know lithium batteries don't charge at 60v, but it makes easy math. 60v * 130% = 78v minimum VOC. When panels heat up they decrease in voltage. The cooler the, higher voltage. In the summer, your panels are sure to heat up a bit from standard test conditions. So I would guess a minimum of 82 VOC. But in the winter it increases. At -60F (around -49C) the same panels with produce 102v. Not to scare you, but you also need a charge controller that can handle the higher voltage. My system has a VOC around 110v (at standard test conditions)to help with the cloudy days. At -62F that's 138v. I bought a Midnite Kid because of this. There are other charge controllers that can handle the higher voltage. This is something that you need to take in consideration when going through the planning process. Midnite Solar has a very handy calculator for figuring out the output voltage and amps.

MidNite Solar - KID Sizing Tool.

MidNite Solar is the industry leader and manufacture of quality Renewable Energy System electrical components and E-Panels.

www.midnitesolar.com

Just remember that if you buy high quality products and install it safely. 100v dc can be just as safe as 120v ac

Good luck and have fun.
Ed

Our cabin isn’t used in the winter. The odd time it is used the genny will supply power. I understand the low temp and voc concern.

my cc would be a 250 volt model. And my array would be well within that.

 

[UpNorthMan]

Glad you have that under control. Not everyone realizes how cold weather effects things.
Good luck and have fun with it.
Ed

 

[Nan_wpg]

Krap, disregard. I was thinking MidNite, not Morningstar. My bad.

I sent you a link to my manual for your perusal.

One thing I would highly recommend to make your system more idiot-resistant is to get a shunt battery meter like the Renogy 500a or the Aili Shunt monitor and however many extension cables it takes to mount the screen somewhere obvious that everyone can see easily. Under or over the monitor screen put a label that says something like "IF 25% OR LESS, RUN GENERATOR" and set the battery limit on the EG4 to 10% low voltage cutoff. That buys time to get the generator fired up before everything goes dark on them. Once it's full up, or people are calling it a night, they can shut off the generator and should have enough to make it through the night.

I did a bit more research into midnite products. What didnt you like about their AIO unit? It appears to be similar to all the others out there, but likely has better software and engineering??

I like the fact that midnite makes most of their stuff in the USA so while the AIO is produced in China I’d at least be supporting a company that actually produces rather than drop ships product.

it idles @50w. Not great, but not bad. I know I’m flip flopping all over the place but my thought process now is:

go,cheaper (AIO) and double up on the battery (200a @48). Easily more than enough storage for my needs. I can still mount it all on a hand cart and bring it home for the winter after cabin season.

midnote has a nice little “kid” controller. Nothing,for inverters other than the very large “Rosie”.

 

[Rednecktek]

When Midnite started selling those people were having all sorts of issues, found that they were really bad chinese clones with horrible manuals, backorders and supply issues. It really looked like a cash grab, just bad all the way around.

Hopefully things have gotten significantly better, but with what they charge I'd need to see quite a few more reviews.

If I were going to take a risk, I'd take the less expensive risk with a bettee history.

 

[Nan_wpg]

When Midnite started selling those people were having all sorts of issues, found that they were really bad chinese clones with horrible manuals, backorders and supply issues. It really looked like a cash grab, just bad all the way around.

Hopefully things have gotten significantly better, but with what they charge I'd need to see quite a few more reviews.

If I were going to take a risk, I'd take the less expensive risk with a bettee history.

This,troubles me. I was ready to support a local homegrown company. And I’ll gladly pay more for a “better” product. But if all they’re doing is rebranding a cheap China AIO shame on them.

morningstar is looking really good now.