Hello. I’m new here. 1st post. Looking for general input for electricity… remote cabin

[Nan_wpg]

I’ll,add,that I’ve always found midnite to have excellent manuals and documentation. I’ll have a lookie.

 

[Nan_wpg]

Sounds like you need a Victron Multiplus 48-3000. Add your favorite server rack battery and go. You can just leave it all wired up with a power in cord to the genny. When you hit LVD start it up. Then you can set your AC input limit to match the genny and not waste any watts. One thing to remember is generators have an efficiency curve. Just like all petrol engines, running them above 85% burns a ton of fuel for very little additional output. If I remember you have a honda 2000 or something similar. Limiting it to 10 amps would be much more fuel efficient and make it last a lot longer than trying to max it out every time to charge the battery as fast as possible.

Looks like Victron makes some nice stuff. as I learn more, I,have more thoughts for my “work in progress”:

my thoughts are now a compromise between full blown solar, and a portable AIO.

*victron multipluss2
*trophy battery
*victron 250/60 charge control
*panels 3 x 360-400ish,watts

nothing permantly mounted. Multipluss on top of the battery (think diy ecoflo type box), outlet to “plug” cabin into, and wire a cord for,the,generator.

array will just be connected (for now) via twist locks and a heavy duty extention cord. Plug it in when we’re there, un plug when we are gone.

quality components, low,idle (13 watts), and once permantly installed, it’s a great system.

still haven’t,decided 24v or 48v, so 24 @200AH or 48 @100 same difference. or no?

if the array is 1200 watts it’s either 50 a at 24v or 25a atn48,volts. Watts are watts right?

was,going to buy a bigger genny and just us it to charge the “power box” but I figure I’d be better off (for now) to put the money towards a cc and array.

 

[MisterSandals]

if the array is 1200 watts it’s either 50 a at 24v or 25a atn48,volts. Watts are watts right?

1200W / 28V charging = 42.8A
1200W / 56V charging = 21.4A

Yes, watts are watts. Both voltages, from charging standpoint, are reasonable and manageable.

Your loads, especially with an inverter, if approaching 3000VA will be much more easily wired and fused with 48V battery. Do some shopping for wires and fuses, this alone may sway your battery voltage decision.

 

[Nan_wpg]

1200W / 28V charging = 42.8A
1200W / 56V charging = 21.4A

Yes, watts are watts. Both voltages, from charging standpoint, are reasonable and manageable.

Your loads, especially with an inverter, if approaching 3000VA will be much more easily wired and fused with 48V battery. Do some shopping for wires and fuses, this alone may sway your battery voltage decision.

Any advantage to 24v charging at a higher amperage? (Faster?)

the 24v and 48v Victron multipluss are basically the same price.

24v and 48v trophy rack battery essentially the same price.

Should I buy the biggest charge controller? (250/100)? Do t really need it but if I ever did, it’s cheaper now.

 

[MisterSandals]

Any advantage to 24v charging at a higher amperage? (Faster?)

This is all the same putting 1200W into a (25.6 @200AH or 51.2 @100) = 5120Wh battery.
5120Wh capacity / 1200W = 4.26h

Should I buy the biggest charge controller? (250/100)? Do t really need it but if I ever did, it’s cheaper now.

At 28V charging (25.6V nominal), you are using 42.8% of the 100A charge capability
At 56V charging (51.2V nominal), you are using 21.4% of the 100A charge capability

So with that huge SCC, you can double charging easily (almost 5x at 48V).

Depending on your array voltage ...
Why not a 150/50 ? Just right at 24V.
Why not a 150/30 ? Plenty big at 48V.

 

[Nan_wpg]

This is all the same putting 1200W into a (25.6 @200AH or 51.2 @100) = 5120Wh battery.
5120Wh capacity / 1200W = 4.26h


At 28V charging (25.6V nominal), you are using 42.8% of the 100A charge capability
At 56V charging (51.2V nominal), you are using 21.4% of the 100A charge capability

So with that huge SCC, you can double charging easily (almost 5x at 48V).

Depending on your array voltage ...
Why not a 150/50 ? Just right at 24V.
Why not a 150/30 ? Plenty big at 48V.

2 reasons.

1. Higher voltage. bigger panels, more panels.
2. Cheaper to buy bigger now instead of buying again??

I dunno. I’d rather plan for expansion. Or is that wrong?

 

[MisterSandals]

I’d rather plan for expansion.

How much expansion?
You can double your solar at 24V or 5x at 48V.

Down the road if you bought a second SCC you'd have redundancy if that interests you.

Right vs wrong? If you have an idea what changes you plan to make, you can make more informed choices.

 

[Nan_wpg]

How much expansion?
You can double your solar at 24V or 5x at 48V.

Down the road if you bought a second SCC you'd have redundancy if that interests you.

Right vs wrong? If you have an idea what changes you plan to make, you can make more informed choices.

I have no idea what changes, if any down the road. Just want to be able to charge my 48v 100Ah “power box” reasonably with solar.

I just figured it was “better” to have a higher max voc voltage.

if I go with a 150/30 and say 3-300watt panels in series gives me around 118 voc, 900 watts. 4500mwatts of charging on a good day.

can always charge via the Victron.

So, can I skip the bus bar? Multipluss on one set of terminals, charge control on the other set? As long as everything is fused, and has a breaker?

Wire a female outlet to the controller, and a male outlet to the array, and connect with extention cord when needed.

 

[MisterSandals]

So, can I skip the bus bar? Multipluss on one set of terminals, charge control on the other set? As long as everything is fused, and has a breaker?

Wire a female outlet to the controller, and a male outlet to the array, and connect with extention cord when needed.

I would need a diagram or annotated pic to understand what you mean.

 

[Nan_wpg]

I would need a diagram or annotated pic to understand what you mean.

I’m not working the array permantly. I’m gonna use a heavy duty extention cord with twist locks to plug in.

battery has 2 positive terminals, and 2 negatives. If the inverter can be connected to terminals then controller can too?

 

[MisterSandals]

If the inverter can be connected to terminals then controller can too?

If your battery has 2 terminals, that could be your bus bar.
I always fuse battery to inverter and rarely fuse SCC to battery. Its nice having discrete wiring too so you can wire and fuse for the specific amperage (one might charge at 40A and discharge at 150A).

 

[Nan_wpg]

If your battery has 2 terminals, that could be your bus bar.
I always fuse battery to inverter and rarely fuse SCC to battery. Its nice having discrete wiring too so you can wire and fuse for the specific amperage (one might charge at 40A and discharge at 150A).

I can skip the busbar, OR use the Victron distributor. It’ll give me a nice clean instal, everything is fused. Battery has a breaker, and array will have disconnect.
do you have a breaker between battery and CC?

 

[photomankc]

So a few months later, much research, and pondering…….

1. Did you end up trying the 150w coop heater? How was it?

Yes, during the coldest part of the winter that kept the battery nicely warm and I could charge the next morning without any issue even when inside temps dropped to 20's (interior is not insulated yet).

2. Are you going to wire the chargers up, or just clamp them to the battery (or rack busbars?)

I cut off the clamps and wired them with ring terminals. I still need to cut the outer insulation back more to make it look better but that worked well.

3. Are you using 1 or both chargers?

Both. With both of them on my typical daily use right now can be recovered in about 1.25 - 1.6hrs of recharge time.

4. How big is your genny? Is it enough to run both chargers?

It's 5,600W (2 x 2800W inverters for 1 x 240V or 2 x 120V)

5. Why eq4?

I liked the setup as shown in Will's video and it seemed like pretty good bang for the buck. The idle current is higher than I would like but I'll add a panel to compensate.

6. Why 2 (eventually) 100a batteries instead of 1 220a battery?

The 48V battery they offer is 100Ah. The form factor works well, I liked the cabinet and if one battery fails I would be fine running on the remaining till I got it replaced.

im really liking the trophy batteries. Trying to decide if I want 100a, or 220. Customer service is prompt to answer emails. The eq4 guys, not so much.

I was not aware of the CS issues around EG4 at the time I purchased. So far my personal experience has been good and they have answered my questions within a day or two, or immediately when I called.

I really like the new eq4 100a charger. Still trying to figure out how it switches from 120 to 240 (still waiting an email response).

I like it too. Had I understood when I bought about the limitations of utility charging on the AIO units and that this would be coming I would have waited and ordered it. The 2 36A chargers are good enough though.

 

[Nan_wpg]

Just to update my quest, which may or may not change recommendations. Also, where my heads at based on further edumacating myself, and new product releases……

*I’ve acquired a champion 3650 running watt inverter/gen
*eg4 released the “chargeverter”

I’m certain a 5.12 rack battery @48v will suffice. It’ll last us 3, and likely 4 days between charges. Maybe even longer.

I’m really digging the Victron multipluss 48/35/50. Inverter / charger, idle draw of only 11 watts! Power control, and power assist (don’t need but could be useful at some point). Can dial down the ax input as well as battery charger to match a smaller genny. The only negative (to me) is the fan cooling. One more thing to fail, could suck in dust. Plus for Victron is Bluetooth, it’s a real nice “system” should I decide to go full solar.

I’m also digging morningstars new suresine inverter 2500 watt inverter. Built like a tank, no cooling fans. Negative is 18.6 idle vs Victron 11.
Pair this inverter with the eg4 chargeverter. I can charge up to 50 amps with my genny. Negative (to me) since it’s new it’s not time tested. Quicker charging than the Victron. (Moot point if I go full solar)

Trophy will be the battery I choose. Good reviews, and I’m happy with dans pre sales support. Built in heaters are nice and possibly be needed by October. (Not sure what temps batteries will stay above 0)

So folks, that’s where my heads at: Victron “almost AIO” solution, or a Morningstar/chargeverter solution.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

negative (to me) is the fan cooling. One more thing to fail, could suck in dust

That’s not a negative- fan cooling is a bonus for longevity imho

 

[Nan_wpg]

That’s not a negative- fan cooling is a bonus for longevity imho

I honestly have no idea. Morningstar uses large heat sinks and no fans. Their marketing says fans can fail, push dust into the unit. On the other hand Victron is known To be very reliable.

The only fan failure I’ve come across is a samlex unit on YouTube.

I’ve left computers on in my home for years and no fan failure. They DO collect dust.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

They DO collect dust.

Vacuum and compressed air is part of maintenance imho. Every few months or six months clean them when you do your monthly inspections and connection checks.

 

[Nan_wpg]

Vacuum and compressed air is part of maintenance imho. Every few months or six months clean them when you do your monthly inspections and connection checks.

Fair enough, but all else being equal fanless,is “better” I.e one less thing to do (vacum and blow out). But maybe not.

Too much choice, and first world problems, lol.

 

[Nan_wpg]

I think your situation calls for 24v. The larger 48v systems have double the standby consumption, which requires more battery and PV. Something to consider is a 2500w 24v inverter is going to exceed 100 amps of many BMS's. Chins makes a 12v self heated battery (works off charge current just like trophy) There is a 250ah with 200a BMS. Put 2 of these in series and you would be all set.

https://www.amazon.com/CHINS-Temperature-Bluetooth-Charging-Monitors/dp/B0BKGYKKXN/ref=sr_1_19_sspa?crid=3QA36JQPP7YL7&keywords=chins+heated+battery&qid=1668712171&sprefix=chins+heated+battery%2Caps%2C119&sr=8-19-spons&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.2b70bf2b-6730-4ccf-ab97-eb60747b8daf&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9tdGY&psc=1

One thing I don't understand is why you wouldn't use the AC charger function of the AIO? You can program the charge current to work with your generator capacity. Using a standalone seem unnecessary.

Just re reading my thread and have some thoughts……..

- Victron 48v has lower self consumption
- trophy battery 24v actually has a 200a bms.

I don’t understand “more battery and more pv” for 48v.

48v @100a vs 24v @200a is the “same”??

24v is double the amps then 48v so I’d need a larger charge controller, so how is 48v “more”?

the more I learn the less I know, lol.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Don’t overthink it. The need will make the answer obvious.