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Help Setting up Victron Smart Shunt, and buying a charger or converter for LiFePo4

Glamisduner

New Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2024
Messages
29
Location
California
Setup:
400 watts of solar on the roof, 4 100 watt renology panels.
WattHour 300ah LiFePO4 battery.
Victron 100/50 mppt controller
300amp smart shunt.
600 watt pure sine inverter.
WF-8955PEC Converter

Went camping for 9 days. Battery with solar lasted the first few days before I needed to run the generator.
Problem seems to be that the converter gets no where close to fully charging the battery off the generator. Or maybe the smart shunt isn't reading battery percentages correctly?

The invter auto shut off off when the voltage Got to around 10.75v overnight. (smart shunt said the battery was around 40% if I remember correctly, although I would think it's about dead at this voltage). Shoulden't show the battery state as much lower?

The Factory Converter (WF-8955PEC) did seem to charge the battery fairly quickly off the generator at that point but then tappered down to almost nothing when the shunt was telling me the battery was at around 55%. The solar isn't producing anything close to 400 watts so I then had to pretty much just constantly run the generator for the rest of the trip. Much worse than when I had Lead Acid Batteries and no solar asd theyh would charge up all the way off the generator.

What should should I buy to fix the charging issue? A new converter? A dedicated victron charger that can interact with the shunt and solar? Also, how can I better calibrate my smart shunt so I know what the state of the battery actually is?

There is 6 awg run to the battery from the converter, probably about a 10 foot run. Since I ran 4awg to my inverter years ago, I'm planning to re-run with 4awg to a distro block (about 3 feet to the block) that will then utilize both the 4awg and 6awg connections. That should help with voltage drop a little, but I dont think it will slove my problem.

Can I just install something like this? https://www.victronenergy.com/chargers/blue-smart-ip67-charger-waterproof#downloads And connect it to the 4awg run I already pulled? The battery is mounted to the tongue of my trailer as I do not have a good location for it inside the tailer.

Or should I simply get a different converter?
 
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Show us the settings from the VictronConnect app for both the solar charge controller and the shunt. Also, show the voltage numbers for all the cells.

RV converters aren't the sharpest tool in the shed. I believe that yours is supposed to be able to auto detect the battery chemistry. If you have a way to force it to LiFePO4, I would do that.
 
Setup:
400 watts of solar on the roof, 4 100 watt renology panels.
WattHour 300ah LiFePO4 battery.
Victron 100/50 mppt controller
300amp smart shunt.
600 watt pure sine inverter.
WF-8955PEC Converter

Went camping for 9 days. Battery with solar lasted the first few days before I needed to run the generator.
Problem seems to be that the converter gets no where close to fully charging the battery off the generator. Or maybe the smart shunt isn't reading battery percentages correctly?

The invter auto shut off off when the voltage Got to around 10.75v overnight. (smart shunt said the battery was around 40% if I remember correctly, although I would think it's about dead at this voltage). Shoulden't show the battery state as much lower?

The Factory Converter (WF-8955PEC) did seem to charge the battery fairly quickly off the generator at that point but then tappered down to almost nothing when the shunt was telling me the battery was at around 55%. The solar isn't producing anything close to 400 watts so I then had to pretty much just constantly run the generator for the rest of the trip. Much worse than when I had Lead Acid Batteries and no solar asd theyh would charge up all the way off the generator.

What should should I buy to fix the charging issue? A new converter? A dedicated victron charger that can interact with the shunt and solar? Also, how can I better calibrate my smart shunt so I know what the state of the battery actually is?

There is 6 awg run to the battery from the converter, probably about a 10 foot run. Since I ran 4awg to my inverter years ago, I'm planning to re-run with 4awg to a distro block (about 3 feet to the block) that will then utilize both the 4awg and 6awg connections. That should help with voltage drop a little, but I dont think it will slove my problem.

Can I just install something like this? https://www.victronenergy.com/chargers/blue-smart-ip67-charger-waterproof#downloads And connect it to the 4awg run I already pulled? The battery is mounted to the tongue of my trailer as I do not have a good location for it inside the tailer.

Or should I simply get a different converter?
Try to disconnect your solar when you run the generator and see if the wfco will increase charging current. Else, dump the wfco. I have not had good experience with them on the whole.
 
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Try to disconnect your solar when you run the generator and see if the wfco will increase charging current. Else, dump the wfco. I have not had good experience with them on the whole.
What should I get in place if it though? I think it is integrated into my electical panel. I did try shutting off the solar, I can see why that would help, however I didn't find it did much. Even running the generator at night I really couldn't get above 55% (according to the shunt). I don't know if the shunt is showing the correct percentages though.... It is set for LiFePO4, but it seems odd that it was still showing 40% capactiy at 10.75v

Is this the best thing to buy so it can communicate with my Solar MPPT Controller?
Looks like it needs to be plugged into an outlet. So I guess that means I would need to install an outlet behind the electrical panel? Would it be safe to cut the plug off and wire it to the transfer switch, or into a breaker? Not sure about the stranded wire in the cord...
 
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Is this the best thing to buy so it can communicate with my Solar MPPT Controller?
https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Energy-12-Volt-Battery-Bluetooth/dp/B08NY23BKF/ Looks like it needs to be plugged into an outlet. So I guess that means I would need to install an outlet behind the electrical panel? Would it be safe to cut the plug off and wire it to the transfer switch, or into a breaker? Not sure about the stranded wire in the cord...
Will you connect that ac to DC charger to your generator? You can cut the plug off and put wire it up directly to your system.

The version 2 ip22s can join a ve.smart bt network and coordinate with other smart devices, anything you buy new should be of that spec.

 
Is it possible you don't have all loads going through the shunt? Showing 40% to 50% when the batteries are dead is a big discrepancy.
 
The WF-8955PEC is for lead acid batteries, not lithium. The WFCO units ending in -AD are the ones which feature auto detection of battery chemistry and lithium support. Because it's designed for lead, it probably won't fully charge the lithium.

Based on the manual for that unit: "Bulk Mode will be maintained until the current draw drops to approximately five Amps,or until the timer reaches four hours (whichever happens first)."

So what may be happening is that the unit is in bulk mode (14.4V) for 4 hours and then dropping to absorbtion at 13.6V, which isn't enough to actually charge the lithium battery. Meanwhile, the victron MPPT may be seeing the 14.4V of the bulk charging cycle and thinking that the battery is fully charged and thus limiting it's own charging output because the two aren't networked together so it doesn't know what's actually going on.

Like others have said, there still may be a config issue with the shunt and/or MPPT as well.

Is this the best thing to buy so it can communicate with my Solar MPPT Controller?
https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Energy-12-Volt-Battery-Bluetooth/dp/B08NY23BKF/ Looks like it needs to be plugged into an outlet. So I guess that means I would need to install an outlet behind the electrical panel?
I'm not familiar with this exact load center, but many WFCO load centers already have a plug in the back which the existing converter is plugged into. That's how mine was setup when I removed it. But generally yes that's the sort of thing you'd want to replace the WFCO with (note that the 30A output will be slower than the 55A you were previously getting with the WFCO bulk charge, but it should fully charge the battery because it supports lithium).
 
Meanwhile, the victron MPPT may be seeing the 14.4V of the bulk charging cycle and thinking that the battery is fully charged and thus limiting it's own charging output because the two aren't networked together so it doesn't know what's actually going on
It's unlikely the battery is anywhere near 14.4, that would be close to 95% charge, he hasn't provided any graphs , but the 4 hour limitation is prolly the main issue here.
 
It's unlikely the battery is anywhere near 14.4, that would be close to 95% charge, he hasn't provided any graphs , but the 4 hour limitation is prolly the main issue here.
Sorry, yeah that's what I was getting at. The 14.4V is just the WFCO output, not the battery voltage. I was referring to some documented issues of Victron MPPTs incorrectly switching to float mode with other chargers on the circuit: https://communityarchive.victronene...-the-documentation-warn-that-multiple-mp.html. This issue has been "fixed" in the last few years, but it involves the multiple devices communicating with each other. I'm thinking that the same type of issue may exist when using Victron + non-Victron components.

@Glamisduner one other thing I just thought of as a temporary workaround to not run the genny as long... It sounds stupid, but you might be able to trick the convertor by turning it off and on again when the charge rate. These convertors are pretty dumb, and have no memory, so power cycling it should restart the timer and give you another 4 hours of quick charging.
 
although communication is great, this stuff use to work before we had "communications" I use to hook 4 battery chargers up to the same bank, back in the day and they would all output full rating.

unless he put the mppt controller output directly at the converter output wiring, and not at the battery, he should have been getting full amperage.

don't some of these mppt controllers, have the battery smart option where you can tie it directly to the battery then the mppt will adjust voltage to deal with voltage loss?

might be a good idea on top of the new charger.
 
Please show us a picture of the smart shunt. Also please post the settings of the smart shunt and the mppt.

There is often settings that need to be modified…
 
Is it possible you don't have all loads going through the shunt? Showing 40% to 50% when the batteries are dead is a big discrepancy.
All the gounds are hooked to the shunt then to the battery.

although communication is great, this stuff use to work before we had "communications" I use to hook 4 battery chargers up to the same bank, back in the day and they would all output full rating.

unless he put the mppt controller output directly at the converter output wiring, and not at the battery, he should have been getting full amperage.

don't some of these mppt controllers, have the battery smart option where you can tie it directly to the battery then the mppt will adjust voltage to deal with voltage loss?

might be a good idea on top of the new charger.

Right now both the MPPT and Converter are in the same cabinet in my kitchen, to the battery about 8-10 ft (Because the battery is on the tongue of the trailer). Currently they each have their own run to the battery.

Run1
4awg -> distro block Distro block then goes to the inverter va 4awg, and MPPT via 8 awg (about a foot), then some other devices run to a smaller block.

Run2
6awg -> junky distro block -> Fuse block -> to inverter (probably less than a foot of whatever size wire).

I was planning to jump the inverter to the 4awg run so it would have more potential flow.

The MPPT is communicating with the shunt for charging purposes. (I think that is what you mean by battery smart?)
Sorry, yeah that's what I was getting at. The 14.4V is just the WFCO output, not the battery voltage. I was referring to some documented issues of Victron MPPTs incorrectly switching to float mode with other chargers on the circuit: https://communityarchive.victronene...-the-documentation-warn-that-multiple-mp.html. This issue has been "fixed" in the last few years, but it involves the multiple devices communicating with each other. I'm thinking that the same type of issue may exist when using Victron + non-Victron components.

@Glamisduner one other thing I just thought of as a temporary workaround to not run the genny as long... It sounds stupid, but you might be able to trick the convertor by turning it off and on again when the charge rate. These convertors are pretty dumb, and have no memory, so power cycling it should restart the timer and give you another 4 hours of quick charging.
Come to think of it, the converter is on its own breaker, I did try flipping it on and off and didnt notice any difference. However I should have tried this at different voltages. I might play with this a little more.

The WF-8955PEC is for lead acid batteries, not lithium. The WFCO units ending in -AD are the ones which feature auto detection of battery chemistry and lithium support. Because it's designed for lead, it probably won't fully charge the lithium.

Based on the manual for that unit: "Bulk Mode will be maintained until the current draw drops to approximately five Amps,or until the timer reaches four hours (whichever happens first)."

So what may be happening is that the unit is in bulk mode (14.4V) for 4 hours and then dropping to absorbtion at 13.6V, which isn't enough to actually charge the lithium battery. Meanwhile, the victron MPPT may be seeing the 14.4V of the bulk charging cycle and thinking that the battery is fully charged and thus limiting it's own charging output because the two aren't networked together so it doesn't know what's actually going on.

Like others have said, there still may be a config issue with the shunt and/or MPPT as well.


I'm not familiar with this exact load center, but many WFCO load centers already have a plug in the back which the existing converter is plugged into. That's how mine was setup when I removed it. But generally yes that's the sort of thing you'd want to replace the WFCO with (note that the 30A output will be slower than the 55A you were previously getting with the WFCO bulk charge, but it should fully charge the battery because it supports lithium).
I keep reading that I should get to about 80% but the shunt never read above 55%, however voltage got almost to 13.58 durring bulk charging. I never saw the converter putting out many amps to the battery, a solid 30amps seems like it would be good enough. Would I be best off just completly disabling the converter then?

Will try to get some screenshots and photos later today.
 
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you need an amp meter to figure out what is going on. 13.5 is not a decent charge. barely 55%

regardless the 4 hour limitation alone would be worth it just to change it and not worry about it.
 
Come to think of it, the converter is on its own breaker, I did try flipping it on and off and didnt notice any difference. However I should have tried this at different voltages. I might play with this a little more.

I found that disconnecting both the AC and DC sides of the converter was the "reset" that was needed to get it out of its funk.
 
To do a SOC calibration on the shunt, fully charge the battery with a stand alone lithium battery charger. It's important that you know the battery is fully charged.

On the smart shunt app, go to settings ( gear icon)> battery>battery capacity. Enter your AH rating for battery as a starting point, you may have to increase or decrease the ah if you SOC continues to be off.

Go down near the bottom. where it says synchronize SOC to 100%. Hit the blue Synchronize button. DO NOT hit the Zero current calibrate button.

This what I have my other setting on for LiFePo4. Other people have differing opinions and I'm not saying they are wrong. This what I have.
Someone else may have better input.

Charged voltage- .2 below your float voltage. float on my CC is 13.4v
Discharge floor 10%
tail current 0
Peukert exponent 1.05
Charged efficiency factor 98%
 
What should I get in place if it though? I think it is integrated into my electical panel. I did try shutting off the solar, I can see why that would help, however I didn't find it did much. Even running the generator at night I really couldn't get above 55% (according to the shunt). I don't know if the shunt is showing the correct percentages though.... It is set for LiFePO4, but it seems odd that it was still showing 40% capactiy at 10.75v

Is this the best thing to buy so it can communicate with my Solar MPPT Controller?
Looks like it needs to be plugged into an outlet. So I guess that means I would need to install an outlet behind the electrical panel? Would it be safe to cut the plug off and wire it to the transfer switch, or into a breaker? Not sure about the stranded wire in the cord...
It can cause issues with battery state detection on some chargers. In my case, my charger cut way back on current when the solar was turned on. It took all day to recharge my batteries sitting in front of my house plugged into shore power. However, when I reran that test with solar turned off, I got better (still crappy - WFCO sucks) charge current from the converter, more than the sum of what I was getting from solar and charger together. But I have LFP batteries and HAD an WFCO autodetect converter when doing those test. I have since replaced said converter with a PD-9380v this winter, so look forward to more testing come spring.
 
Charged voltage- .2 below your float voltage. float on my CC is 13.4v
That will lead to incorrect reading on the shunt, 'charged voltage' should be set to 0.2 volts below absorbtion voltage, if the Victron controller is using the default lithium profile, absorbtion at 14.2 volts, set charged voltage to 14.0 volts. Tail current 4%.
The MPPT is communicating with the shunt for charging purposes
The voltage and temperature are reported by the shunt to to the controller, to get correct voltage readings the shunt needs to be installed near the battery , as close as practical, to avoid cable volt drops effecting the charge process.
The converter bulk and absorbtion voltages should be adequate to charge your batteries. Tests at various charge voltages show 13.6 is adequate.
Screenshot_20241120-120608_Chrome.jpg
 
I am using the default profile for the solar controller, or at least i think for the most part. I guess I should lower the charged voltage on the shunt, I was following the posted video but used 14.5 instead of 14.6 since that was the max I saw. I noticed it was set to 13.5 when I opened the app... although I swear I set it higher than that before, maybe I fumbled the phone at some point and reset it.... The battery is currently charging back up, but it will take a few days to get full. The shunt still says 100% even though it is clearly not full.

I do not have a lithium charger for the battery yet. Should I buy the victron 30 amp one? It looks like there are spare ports in the panel where I could install a new breaker to run to an outlet inside the cabinet if there is not a plug on the back pf the panel, and / or I should not disconect the existing converter. I think some 15amp romex to an plastic box with an outlet would be pretty easy to wire up and hide inside the cabinet. Can I run both the charger AND the converter? Should I put the charger on a switch? Wouldn't it be better if I just use a Lithium Converter instead of getting a charger? Or should I upgrade both the converter and install the charger?

The built-in generator is an ONAN 4000, I was not planning to attach the charger to it though (if there is even an outlet on it). It makes more sense to add a new outlet inside the cabinet with all the other power stuff, then connect to charger to one of the distribution blocks. I think it should communicate with the smart shunt, so there is no need to install it next to the battery? (that would be difficult). Simply adding it to an outlet that is on the same circuit as the shore power (and not the inverter) would allow me to charge with shore power, the Onan, or my small quiet yamaha generator I like to use.

I have attached a bunch of pictures of the setup, as well as my current shunt settings. Shunt is connected to the main battery netagive with 0awg wire (Overkill, but I already had it laying around).
 

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That will lead to incorrect reading on the shunt, 'charged voltage' should be set to 0.2 volts below absorbtion voltage, if the Victron controller is using the default lithium profile, absorbtion at 14.2 volts, set charged voltage to 14.0 volts. Tail current 4%.

The voltage and temperature are reported by the shunt to to the controller, to get correct voltage readings the shunt needs to be installed near the battery , as close as practical, to avoid cable volt drops effecting the charge process.
The converter bulk and absorbtion voltages should be adequate to charge your batteries. Tests at various charge voltages show 13.6 is adequate.
View attachment 268472
thanks for the correction..
 
I never could get my WFCO to go into bulk when I switched to LiPO4. I installed a Victron IP22 30 amp charger. It won't charge your bank up super quick, but it's much better than the WFCO. I mounted mine right next to the batteries. You could even use 2 of them in parallel.
 
if fixed my converter... as it was replaced under warranty
they sent the AD model

then fixed the wiring .... including the crappy negative to FRAME connections (2 of them)

Installed solar and TURNED OFF the converter (after all that work !)


Setup:
400 watts of solar on the roof, 4 100 watt renology panels.
WattHour 300ah LiFePO4 battery.
Victron 100/50 mppt controller

400w is a reasonable start but not enough to go weeks boondocking
get more panels and make sure your solar wiring is optimized

Put the 100/50 MPPT next to the battery and use biggest wire you can fit on the MPPT to battery
the panel to controller wires can be smaller as you can play with the panel voltage to reduce the amps

I bought 370w panels (residential type) with around 37v short circuit volts
they fit goof on a RV as they are 40 inches wide... 2 can sit side by side with a walkway between
740w is a good match for the 100/50 ... anything bigger gets more pricey
more panels = getting a second controller and wiring

I got 12v fridge , furnace and all the other trailer stuff
overnight 200ah battery looses about 30%
recharged from solar by 2pm.... most days
traveled 4000+ miles so far with no worries ,

NEVER turn off the solar even while driving or sightseeing etc
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I got 2 generators ............... they get left at home
but if you do need to use them... make sure your converter wiring is fixed (see above about negative to frame)

you don't have to get to 100% SOC every day ...
just have enough battery capacity to last 2 -3 days
 
additional
redo the wiring get better lugs etc

unsure what that cable setup is on the main negative (grub screw?)


I would ditch the stainless lock washers... secure the cables to a wall so they can't loosen
tighten the brass bolt down to spec

-
 
additional
redo the wiring get better lugs etc

unsure what that cable setup is on the main negative (grub screw?)


I would ditch the stainless lock washers... secure the cables to a wall so they can't loosen
tighten the brass bolt down to spec

-
These are basically what is on the 0awg negative https://www.knukonceptz.com/product...ng-terminals-0-4-gauge-pair-with-heat-shrink/. I already had this cable made for an old extensive stereo system install that I pulled before selling the vehicle. Anyways, I dont think there are any issues with these connections, it might be nice to redo some of the lugs eventually. One of the cables, I think the one for the charger, is run to a frame ground on the tongue of the trailer. This is how the factory did it, not me. I do need to remove that self tapping bolt and cleanup the ground there.

I think I will just get the 30 amp Victron Charger. I hope I dont regret not getting the 50 amp version, I do not need it's 1+1 functonality though. I just hope going to Lithium does not end up being worse than 2 6v 230AH lead acids due to charging limitations. They certainly lasted allot longer up front. Mostly we do 3-4 days trips. I'm thinking the 30 amp charger should make this setup better overall, but it sounds like it will take longer to charge which can mean running the generator longer than before (but also have more capacity)? Of course the solar will help, but I didn't realize how greatly undersized a 400watt system would be. The Converter is dumb and I never had the shunt when I had the 6 volts, so I cant really testify that it was actually ever putting out 50 amps prior, all I know if that now it seems to shut off around 13.4/.5 volts and unless the battery is dead never seems to go over 20 amps anyways. If this all does not work out, this stainless box should hold both 6v batteries if I need to go back to those.

if fixed my converter... as it was replaced under warranty
they sent the AD model

then fixed the wiring .... including the crappy negative to FRAME connections (2 of them)

Installed solar and TURNED OFF the converter (after all that work !)




400w is a reasonable start but not enough to go weeks boondocking
get more panels and make sure your solar wiring is optimized

Put the 100/50 MPPT next to the battery and use biggest wire you can fit on the MPPT to battery
the panel to controller wires can be smaller as you can play with the panel voltage to reduce the amps

I bought 370w panels (residential type) with around 37v short circuit volts
they fit goof on a RV as they are 40 inches wide... 2 can sit side by side with a walkway between
740w is a good match for the 100/50 ... anything bigger gets more pricey
more panels = getting a second controller and wiring

I got 12v fridge , furnace and all the other trailer stuff
overnight 200ah battery looses about 30%
recharged from solar by 2pm.... most days
traveled 4000+ miles so far with no worries ,

NEVER turn off the solar even while driving or sightseeing etc
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I got 2 generators ............... they get left at home
but if you do need to use them... make sure your converter wiring is fixed (see above about negative to frame)

you don't have to get to 100% SOC every day ...
just have enough battery capacity to last 2 -3 days
Yea I messed up on only getting 400 watts, unfortunatly, adding anymore panels will void the lifetime roof warranty on the trailer if I drill into the roof. I might be able to pay the company that did our Rhino Roof to install 4 more mounts though. I beleive my best bet is to just get more 100w panels so that the voltages would match the other set of panels, and run them in parallel? I think changing to larger panels at this point is out, because they won't fit the existing mounts that were installed prior to getting the rhino roof on the trailer, unless I want to redo everything I just put in 2 trips ago. Maybe if I ever get another trailer though.... Lesson learned.

I can't move the MPPT closer to the battery, the battery is on the tongue of the trailer. This is a front bathroom toy hauler. The only way I thought I could accomplish this without putting the battery under the front vanity, would be a custom cabinet in the bathroom, behind where the door opens, it would however limit the ability to open the door all the way, and there might be holding tank right under where I would want to drill. I could have bought a larger battery to fit in that space then though. It would have also require completly re-wiring the whole trailer to reach the new battery location, so I decided against this. I would lose a whole camping season, since I do not have the time to put that much effort into the new system . I it could also go in the front closet, but that closet hardly has any room as it is. So, battery stayed on the tongue, and the mppy went under the Panty in the kitchen, where I had run 4awg 8 years ago for the inverter. This made the most sense to me.

Our fridge runs on propane, but I have added a 12v IceCo cooler that does suck some power from the battery. What really pulls the power is the TV, and laptops I was using last trip, they pretty much negate all the solar.
 
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I never could get my WFCO to go into bulk when I switched to LiPO4. I installed a Victron IP22 30 amp charger. It won't charge your bank up super quick, but it's much better than the WFCO. I mounted mine right next to the batteries. You could even use 2 of them in parallel.
I would install it in the cabinet, but I think this is the route I will go. I didnt tink about grabbing a second one. Did you WFCO have a regular wall outlet plug or did you cut the plug for the Victron and just wire it to the breaker?
 

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