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diy solar

HEY DUMMY (true confessions of stupidity concerning heightened generator elevation)!

RV8R said:
lol ,,, Good for you to post this @sunshine_eggo

Density Altitude getting you Down 😁.
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TRULY!

RV8R said:
Another time ,,, Flying into Sedona AZ ,,, completely read “The Brown Book” Blaa, Blaa, Blaa it mentioned the downdrafts. On final & it was relatively smooth ,,, I kept pushing in the red knob as what looked good was deteriorating as to making the numbers. 🙄 ,,, sometimes I am about as Sharp as a Beachball ,,, I had just read about the downdrafts ,,, Sedona (I’m sure you know), is referred to as the aircraft carrier ( not from shortness - but “Table Top” )
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Yep! Landed on the "aircraft carrier" a few times in a Beech Musketeer. Fortunately, all were uneventful, but it was still a lot of fun.
 
sunshine_eggo said:
TRULY!



Yep! Landed on the "aircraft carrier" a few times in a Beech Musketeer. Fortunately, all were uneventful, but it was still a lot of fun.
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Been there a few times ,,, what a beautiful place to have aviation experience with.

It was pretty uneventful for us, but I was wondering why I was slowly increasing the throttle ,,, RV7, so no issues with performance ,,, more like a lawn dart.
 
Another complicating factor is PowerAssist. My models are limited to a 13A minimum AC input to use PowerAssist. That's 3120W minimum vs. the 2800-2900W max. I had to limit charging to 2200W in order to give myself some wiggle room with loads. Basically, I need to stay under ~600W of loads or go > 1000W to engage Powerassist. Normally PowerAssist saves your bacon, but my generator is just too weak due to density altitude.

When I was only drawing from one leg of the generator, I might have been running the electrical bits near limit, but the engine could handle it fine. Mentally, I just figured when I nabbed both legs, I'd still be fine... WRONG!

I've already started shopping for something dual fuel with 8500W+ on Propane. That would give me 6800W actual. This is the first time this year I've used the genny, and it was a special case, so until I actually move to the property and start living there, there's just no rush.
 
The air at higher altitudes being less dense also makes it worse a cooling so you may need more cooling air volume that the given device is able to deliver (probably less an issue on a generator where the power/heat produced drops by a similar amount because of less partial pressure). With computer cpus and other components this becomes a challenge at > 5000ft as that is the max altitude most computer makes design for, and so you may need to lower the frequencies and/or figure out how to boost the air volume to not overheat.
 
rogerheflin said:
The air at higher altitudes being less dense also makes it worse a cooling so you may need more cooling air volume that the given device is able to deliver (probably less an issue on a generator where the power/heat produced drops by a similar amount because of less partial pressure). With computer cpus and other components this becomes a challenge at > 5000ft as that is the max altitude most computer makes design for, and so you may need to lower the frequencies and/or figure out how to boost the air volume to not overheat.
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I live at 9100ft, on all my computers I have AIO water coolers for the CPU. Everything works fine like that. I used to do air cooled, but with massive heatsinks and large amounts of airflow.
 
BarracudaBob said:
How about the "HHO Days"? A local vender was able to convince a sheriff department to add HHO generators to their vehicles.

"The concept is to use a device called an "HHO generator" to produce hydrogen-oxygen gas (HHO) from water through electrolysis, and then feed this gas directly into the engine's carburetor, with the idea that it can enhance combustion and potentially improve fuel efficiency by providing additional oxygen to the air-fuel mixture."
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I actually have a buddy (Mensa mind) who was completely successful at building and installing on demand HHO from off the shelf products you can get anywhere. He is able to increase fuel mileage by 20% on the average vehicle. He told me I could run a generator direct but at 1/2 power. So a 5000 watt generator would produce 2500 watts power with just HHO on demand generator hooked up.
His basic design employs a water filter housing with stacked stainless steel shot glasses inside. Not exactly rocket science, (at least not high tech) or hidden technology. The downside with his off the shelf design was they had to be frequently rebuilt to maintain use. Other than that it's great stuff especially for a hobbyist type mindset.

I still would like to have time one day to tinker a bit and see if I can get the ol jenny cranking with one.

Main point to take away here is this, IT is not hard to do, and if industry wanted to produce some HHO on demand stuff they certainly could. You just can't make $ off of the fossil fuels you would be replacing with H2O!
 
Hydrogen electrolyzes with new catalyst are reaching 95% efficiency in the lab. You will never get more than you put in but if you make the H2 via solar into batteries you can burn it at a later date in your vehicle.

Here in Florida they have a facilities that make the hydrogen with unused solar (massive array) and then burn the H2 when in demand in combined cycle natural gas generator. Compressing and storming something with an atomic number of 1 is difficult. It will leak through a steal container. They are using specialized ceramic coatings to prevent the leakages . It is a all about the Duck Curve.
 
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sunshine_eggo said:
Dear Self,

I regret to inform you that you are a dried up old turd. That engineering degree? The focus on aerodynamics/gas dynamics/thermodynamics, etc.???

Yeah. Dummy. You forgot a lot, dincha? I mean, it was 30 years ago, but...

Oh... yeah... and that pilot's license? You know... where you literally have to be operationally aware of density altitude and its effect on engine/aircraft performance?

Yeah... you forgot that crap too, eh? I mean, it was... 25 years ago, but...

You even brag like a jackass about how you often get more than 1000W/m^2 because you know... THINNER AIR!!!!

Oh... you think you're clever because you installed the proper jet for high altitude operation... No. That doesn't mean you change the laws of physics... DUMMY!

STILL... you manage to forget that you're not going to get rated power out of your generator at 6500 feet and spend 30 minutes tweaking and scratching your head about how poorly your generator is performing now that you've finally gotten it setup for drawing from both phases of the generator instead of just the one?.... Dummy.

So, yeah. I did. I chased some really crappy generator performance issues for half an hour before I *headesked* and remembered derating due to density...

3600W @ 6500' means about 2900W, which is almost exactly where it was bogging down, dropping frequency and the mighty Quattros kicked it to the curb when frequency dropped below 45Hz....

What a dummy.

Don't be a dummy.

generatorbible.com

Portable Generators In Altitude - A Guide On What To Do [And Not Do]

Do you intend to operate your portable generator in high altitudes? Start by knowing the reasons of derating and power loss, the dangers and the solutions.
generatorbible.com generatorbible.com

View attachment 247158
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Can you take a picture of exactly what you are using.

Maybe I can see some places where the engine can be upgraded to recover some of the lost power
If its a big block clone an IGX ignition and high compression head, jetting, look at the pumping losses.
Might be able to help you...
 
DPC said:
Can you take a picture of exactly what you are using.

Maybe I can see some places where the engine can be upgraded to recover some of the lost power
If its a big block clone an IGX ignition and high compression head, jetting, look at the pumping losses.
Might be able to help you...
Click to expand...

It's a $399 Predator 3600 generator from Harbor Freight (I think they're $459 now).

Can't get 125% more power with 80% air. It simply needs more oxygen or an engine capable of outputting 5kW continuous. Given it's observed output at 6500, it would achieve the rated output at sea level.

I've already wasted too much of my life on it. All time and $ transacted will be in its replacement and disposal. I'm perfectly happy to live with the 2800W until I actually need a legit generator for the 10kW system. This is the first time I've used it in 2024, so it's not a high priority.

The main 5er has its own 5500 propane Onan connected to a 100 gallon tank if it comes down to a true emergency.

Thanks though!
 
Brett V said:
This reminds me of the countless times I've spent 15 or more minutes tearing the garage apart looking for a particular tool that was in my back pocket.
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I wish the search was only limited to the garage... I look everywhere I've strewn my tools about only to find it's already in my damn hand with a couple of other tools I thought I needed for the job.
 
RV8R said:
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I remember that vid... It caused me a little PTSD because it reminded me of some of the monumentally stupid crap I did in the Musketeer.

Prior to 30, I was a moronic menace to myself and anybody in my general vicinity. Actually... I was about 35... after my daughter was born. I also did really stupid crap on two wheelers too. Finally got off the streets and to the track at 35.

Happy I didn't take myself or anybody else out.
 
sunshine_eggo said:
It's a $399 Predator 3600 generator from Harbor Freight (I think they're $459 now).

Can't get 125% more power with 80% air. It simply needs more oxygen or an engine capable of outputting 5kW continuous. Given it's observed output at 6500, it would achieve the rated output at sea level.

I've already wasted too much of my life on it. All time and $ transacted will be in its replacement and disposal. I'm perfectly happy to live with the 2800W until I actually need a legit generator for the 10kW system. This is the first time I've used it in 2024, so it's not a high priority.

The main 5er has its own 5500 propane Onan connected to a 100 gallon tank if it comes down to a true emergency.

Thanks though!
Click to expand...
I am going to assume its a 223cc small block.

Most of my hot rod tricks will work with that, but Im not fond of those engines.
Rods are too short stroke to bore ration is a little wide.

Link me to the exact product and I'll search up parts for a build list.
These engines are too lean out of the box and timing is all over the place.
Compression at your altitude could be boosted to around 10:1 and still burn pump gas
Doubling the hp of a small block clone is not hard to do.
Getting a 10 or 15 percent boost at 3700 rpm is a bit more of a challenge.

WIN_20191019_15_55_00_Pro.jpg

To the left of the green knuckle dragger is a similar high compression build for natural gas.
I've done this a little.....

IMG_0252.JPG
Im very pleased with its ability to pull over name plate with an engine 4 cubic inches smaller than originally built.
000_1254.JPG
Under the plastic are Generator Mummies....
They wait for the day they are called back to service.
 
DPC said:
I am going to assume its a 223cc small block.
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Nope. 212.


And lookee there... it's actually a 3500, so I got that wrong too.

I appreciate your abilities, but please don't expend any additional time or effort. The only thing I'm willing to do is to sell this turd for $200, buy a dual fuel unit rated to 8500W on propane, and then plug it in and turn it on. All my efforts after that will be directed at implementing gen autostart.
 
sunshine_eggo said:
Nope. 212.


And lookee there... it's actually a 3500, so I got that wrong too.

I appreciate your abilities, but please don't expend any additional time or effort. The only thing I'm willing to do is to sell this turd for $200, buy a dual fuel unit rated to 8500W on propane, and then plug it in and turn it on. All my efforts after that will be directed at implementing gen autostart.
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363 piston, GX160 head.....

you should look for a set with 2hp per 1000 watts of generator
 
I'm at about 7500', so I just multiply by .7 or knock off a third if I'm doing it in my poor old abused head. Works out pretty close.

Today was a good day. I got a few things done, and only spent about a quarter of my time looking for things. My brain doesn't work nearly as well as it used to, but then I don't care either, so it's fine.
 
sunshine_eggo said:
I remember that vid... It caused me a little PTSD because it reminded me of some of the monumentally stupid crap I did in the Musketeer.

Prior to 30, I was a moronic menace to myself and anybody in my general vicinity. Actually... I was about 35... after my daughter was born. I also did really stupid crap on two wheelers too. Finally got off the streets and to the track at 35.

Happy I didn't take myself or anybody else out.
Click to expand...

Happy I didn't take myself or anybody else out.




I am too ,,, You have been extremely helpful to me 😁.
 
1727869898106.jpeg1727869943504.jpeg

So here is the original 14cc closed chamber head for the GX160 and to the left is the 22cc ( 24 in some cases on 208 and 212 clones )
This is a bolt on about a 25 dollar part or less used at a small engine shop.
At higher altitude or burning natural gas this head will let you extract a little more energy from your fuel and there will be no issues, you can still burn pump gas ( add 1 to 2 points to your compression ratio depending on the engine and piston )

1727870192268.png
Honda Z4M piston is a stock GX160 piston for the late version of the GX160. ( 13101 Z4M 000 2 )
Its a direct bolt in the GX200 its going to give you 1 point compression ratio increase over anything else you do. ( about a 20 dollar part but Honda dealers sell it for a lot more look online )

1727870452783.webp

This is the "HEMI" Predator SKU 363 engine non California piston. ( about a 20 dollar part )
Its used in several engines but this particular one still uses the stock Honda rod and wrist pin.
The Chinese make a 10 dollar .020 longer than stock rod to go with this piston for use in engines using a Honda stroke VS the Stroker 212 and 223 engines.

SO if you know how to mix and match and pick parts from the various parts bins you can get very cheap parts to make up some of the lost power at altitude and on natural gas if you have a small block Honda based clone generator.

Hope this helps someone who is considering a refresh on their old Honda or Cloned based generator.

If you are willing to burn premium gasoline, you keep the quench tight, you read plugs carefully and time and jet correctly you can run 10.5 :1 compression in a small block clone.
I can do this at 1400 feet.
No reliability issues as long as you do not overload a set you have modified.
 
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