High end, brand name LiFePO4 batteries - local pickup PNW only

[SHTF Power Anyway]

I have for sale 10 Fortress eFlex 5.4 kWh batteries that are great if you have a massive solar array, you have a grid tied system and you're looking for battery backup or if you just want some pretty, "rugged" bricks that don't offer near the efficiency the manufacturer touts. Each battery can eat up to 30 watts an hour. Do the math and keep this in mind before purchasing.

My understanding is that these batteries have high quality cells but they are welded in. I'm not sure you can just take apart the batteries and make them more usable in the PNW.

These batteries have been in service for less that 8 months (6 months on six of them) and have been "cycled" a total of 4 times (only once while in service here).

They will not likely come with a warranty because, IMHO, Fortress sucks. There is nothing wrong with the batteries except for their design, the company's lack of support and their ridiculous price for useless bricks for someone wanting to off-grid in the PNW on ANY level. My winter loads can be less than 1 single kWH. But I can't even begin to keep my system up in the winter with nearly 15 kWh's of panels because the system itself eats the majority of this production. How much room do you have for panels to power this power sucking hog of a system? And most packages being sold by distributors have this same battery technology. Ask the right questions and don't be fooled like I was! The "efficiency" listings these companies show are pure fraud! Do your research!

These are being sold on a best offer basis. (Edit: the price is $1,700/battery)

I cannot deliver and the packaging was recycled long ago so these will not be shipped. If you want them, you'll have to come and get them. These are located in Castle Rock, WA.

 

[DougfromdaUP]

You forgot to remind us that your high-quality batteries are relay based, which never fail, as opposed to the FET using low quality batteries the rest of us have, which not only are going to fail and burn down our homes, but may explode in a blaze so spectacular as to cause a rift in the space-time continuum.

 

[Mithril]

Wow, if FETs are as bad as you say your computer should burst into flames any minute now...

Regardless, contactors of good quality don't eat up 30W 24/7. I'd also bet money FETs react faster.

You know what the MOST likely thing to fail in these electronics is? The tiny SMD caps which so often go short circuit or low resistance. And where are they EVERYWHERE, controlling FETs, controlling the BMS, controlling the FET that controls that contactor, in your Inverter, your AIO, in your phone, laptop, and so on. BTW your phone or laptop has a better chance of burning down your house than a LifePo4 does. And your normal AC wiring has a better chance of causing a house fire than your solar system unless you do something ridiculous.

Also FETs can fail open just as easily, somewhat depends on the exact type of FET and what triggered the failure. And what usually kills FETs is abuse, either over voltage/temperature or the driving circuit (such as sending 24v to a 12v gate).

The BMS is the to protect the cells from the world, any protection TO the world from the cells is a side bonus.

 

[DougfromdaUP]

Wow, if FETs are as bad as you say your computer should burst into flames any minute now...

Regardless, contactors of good quality don't eat up 30W 24/7. I'd also bet money FETs react faster.

You know what the MOST likely thing to fail in these electronics is? The tiny SMD caps which so often go short circuit or low resistance. And where are they EVERYWHERE, controlling FETs, controlling the BMS, controlling the FET that controls that contactor, in your Inverter, your AIO, in your phone, laptop, and so on. BTW your phone or laptop has a better chance of burning down your house than a LifePo4 does. And your normal AC wiring has a better chance of causing a house fire than your solar system unless you do something ridiculous.

Also FETs can fail open just as easily, somewhat depends on the exact type of FET and what triggered the failure. And what usually kills FETs is abuse, either over voltage/temperature or the driving circuit (such as sending 24v to a 12v gate).

The BMS is the to protect the cells from the world, any protection TO the world from the cells is a side bonus.

I’m paraphrasing the manufacturer of her high-quality batteries, not stating my opinion. I’m just trying to help her sell them.
I’m so old I have seen relays fail, too.

 

[DIYrich]

30 watts? I'm guessing it is doing an absorption phase. Can you turn it off?

 

[Quattrohead]

You really don't want to sell these, do you ????

 

[SHTF Power Anyway]

You really don't want to sell these, do you ????

Absolutely, I do.

In the last several days, while I wait for a replacement dongle for one of my Sol-Arks, I've watched my system bring in 19-20 kWh's daily to bring the battery bank back to full powering loads measured with a Kill-A-Watt meter of under 9kWh.

In the winter I need a system that can actually power loads, not just consume every bit of production I bring in. To run my water for 24 hours (pump and UV light), it'll take 1.4kWhs. I won't even have enough power for that because this system is eating any and all production in the winter. It's not all that much better this spring.

This system is intended for a long term, grid down situation. In such an event, there will be gas until I run out and there's only so much one can store to run a generator (which, yes, I do have).

I can sit on these batteries and pretend they'll magically work in my scenario or I can move on. What would you do?

 

[SHTF Power Anyway]

30 watts? I'm guessing it is doing an absorption phase. Can you turn it off?

As far as I know, there aren't settings you can change in the BMS. I'm apparently not supposed to have access to the software or ask any questions about what I'm seeing. When I asked questions, they demanded I return the CAN tool that they "loaned" me.

 

[DIYrich]

As far as I know, there aren't settings you can change in the BMS.

How about a setting in the Sol-ark? If it doesn't send power, I'm guessing the BMS doesn't self consume that much.

Have you looked at power consumption 2 hours after charging? It should drop down to a few watts for all batteries.

 

[SHTF Power Anyway]

How about a setting in the Sol-ark? If it doesn't send power, I'm guessing the BMS doesn't self consume that much.

Have you looked at power consumption 2 hours after charging? It should drop down to a few watts for all batteries.

Measured completely idle (no loads, not even the Sol-Arks) they were pulling over 12 watts. This was measured over several days.

 

[Solar Guppy]

Measured completely idle (no loads, not even the Sol-Arks) they were pulling over 12 watts. This was measured over several days.

Um the Sol-Ark 15K has an idle load of 90 watts ( hour rate ), and any battery that has a BMS will also have and idle load as well ( any Lithium based battery requires a BMS )

Lead acid has even higher self-discharge rates, typically 10-15% month.

I suspect you have the Sol-Ark configured to use the battery first and that is what you are seeing for discharge, not the Fortress eFlex which is specified at 1% a month

 

[SHTF Power Anyway]

Um the Sol-Ark 15K has an idle load of 90 watts ( hour rate ), and any battery that has a BMS will also have and idle load as well ( any Lithium based battery requires a BMS )

Lead acid has even higher self-discharge rates, typically 10-15% month.

I suspect you have the Sol-Ark configured to use the battery first and that is what you are seeing for discharge, not the Fortress eFlex which is specified at 1% a month

There's an entire thread about what the eFlex actually consume that you can look to. It's a long one, so buckle up. Fortress themselves quoted me a 30 watts per hour number which everyone said was nuts. They doubled down on that number several times. Testing showed a minimum of 12 watts per hour at idle (no loads, not even the Sol-Arks running). The 1% per month discharge rate would be for the batteries to be completely turned off.

The Sol-Ark 12k consumption numbers were quoted by Sol-Ark employees. We tested our two at idle and found they were 160 watts total. They also were the people who provided me with the rate of .05 based on loads. I do have a call into them to look at why the consumption is higher than stated for their equipment. They're helpful and responsive and easy to work with. I can't say the same for my battery manufacturer.

 

[Solar Guppy]

There's an entire thread about what the eFlex actually consume that you can look to. It's a long one, so buckle up. Fortress themselves quoted me a 30 watts per hour number which everyone said was nuts. They doubled down on that number several times. Testing showed a minimum of 12 watts per hour at idle (no loads, not even the Sol-Arks running). The 1% per month discharge rate would be for the batteries to be completely turned off.

The Sol-Ark 12k consumption numbers were quoted by Sol-Ark employees. We tested our two at idle and found they were 160 watts total. They also were the people who provided me with the rate of .05 based on loads. I do have a call into them to look at why the consumption is higher than stated for their equipment. They're helpful and responsive and easy to work with. I can't say the same for my battery manufacturer.

Batteries have an initial after charge 24 hour discharge and then the monthly values ( if idle )

Also consuming vs charging is different, so yes 30 watts overhead while charging a 5kwh battery seems normal. If your pulling 24kwh day ( you mention 1kwh for loads ) I suspect you may not have an accurate understanding of where the energy is being consumed.

So a pair of Sol-Arks are specified to pull 180 whr or over 4 kwh a day.

If Idle loads are a concern, turn off one of the Sol-Arks and run on 2-4 batteries with the others turned off. Turn things back on when needed, but for your listed loads, yes you have way too much equipment to the loads being supported

 

[SHTF Power Anyway]

Batteries have an initial after charge 24 hour discharge and then the monthly values ( if idle )

Also consuming vs charging is different, so yes 30 watts overhead while charging a 5kwh battery seems normal. If your pulling 24kwh day ( you mention 1kwh for loads ) I suspect you may not have an accurate understanding of where the energy is being consumed.

So a pair of Sol-Arks are specified to pull 180 whr or over 4 kwh a day.

If Idle loads are a concern, turn off one of the Sol-Arks and run on 2-4 batteries with the others turned off. Turn things back on when needed, but for your listed loads, yes you have way too much equipment to the loads being supported

Batteries have an initial after charge 24 hour discharge and then the monthly values ( if idle )

Also consuming vs charging is different, so yes 30 watts overhead while charging a 5kwh battery seems normal. If your pulling 24kwh day ( you mention 1kwh for loads ) I suspect you may not have an accurate understanding of where the energy is being consumed.

So a pair of Sol-Arks are specified to pull 180 whr or over 4 kwh a day.

If Idle loads are a concern, turn off one of the Sol-Arks and run on 2-4 batteries with the others turned off. Turn things back on when needed, but for your listed loads, yes you have way too much equipment to the loads being supported

Yes, my Sol-Arks are eating over 4kWh per day. That leaves another 5kWH+ going to the batteries.

I'm not posting here to redesign my system. There was a 21 page thread dealing with all of those issues. I don't care to rehash that here. Can I interest you in a brick or two?

 

[Quattrohead]

What would you do?

Not slag them off yet again in your for sale thread. They didn't work for you but they will be perfectly fine for someone else, stop the whining negativity, put a positive spin on them and get them sold.

 

[SHTF Power Anyway]

Not slag them off yet again in your for sale thread. They didn't work for you but they will be perfectly fine for someone else, stop the whining negativity, put a positive spin on them and get them sold.

The ethical way for me to sell this problem to someone else is to be clear as to why these didn't work for me. These are most easily sold locally and anyone local is going to find a similar problem. You can call being honest "whining negativity". That's your perspective. Are you interested in buying them? If not, maybe move along.

 

[Mithril]

Part me me wishes I had the budget and the time. I feel like something is 100% wrong here, be it design (intentional or mistake) or defect. Even with a contactor the level of self consumption strikes me as too outside of normal. Or, they have no issues and the consumption is/was elsewhere in the system. Only big concern I would have is if the cells are defective; BMS in theory you could just replace, a bad contactor choice could be corrected (or use FET bms).

 

[SHTF Power Anyway]

Part me me wishes I had the budget and the time. I feel like something is 100% wrong here, be it design (intentional or mistake) or defect. Even with a contactor the level of self consumption strikes me as too outside of normal. Or, they have no issues and the consumption is/was elsewhere in the system. Only big concern I would have is if the cells are defective; BMS in theory you could just replace, a bad contactor choice could be corrected (or use FET bms).

I have no support to be able to tell you if there's a problem with the actual batteries or not. The software I have shows everything is normal. I can show anyone interested exactly how the batteries are functioning within the system. I'm not sure what else to post. If you have any ideas of suggested data, I'm happy to provide what I can.

 

[Checkthisout]

In your area but I don't know what is you're selling?

 

[Checkthisout]

I have for sale 10 Fortress eFlex 5.4 kWh batteries that are great if you have a massive solar array, you have a grid tied system and you're looking for battery backup or if you just want some pretty, "rugged" bricks that don't offer near the efficiency the manufacturer touts. Each battery can eat up to 30 watts an hour. Do the math and keep this in mind before purchasing.

My understanding is that these batteries have high quality cells but they are welded in. I'm not sure you can just take apart the batteries and make them more usable in the PNW.

These batteries have been in service for less that 8 months (6 months on six of them) and have been "cycled" a total of 4 times (only once while in service here).

They will not likely come with a warranty because, IMHO, Fortress sucks. There is nothing wrong with the batteries except for their design, the company's lack of support and their ridiculous price for useless bricks for someone wanting to off-grid in the PNW on ANY level. My winter loads can be less than 1 single kWH. But I can't even begin to keep my system up in the winter with nearly 15 kWh's of panels because the system itself eats the majority of this production. How much room do you have for panels to power this power sucking hog of a system? And most packages being sold by distributors have this same battery technology. Ask the right questions and don't be fooled like I was! The "efficiency" listings these companies show are pure fraud! Do your research!

These are being sold on a best offer basis.

I cannot deliver and the packaging was recycled long ago so these will not be shipped. If you want them, you'll have to come and get them. These are located in Castle Rock, WA.

Each battery eats 30 watts?

Why?

 

[DIYrich]

In your area but I don't know what is you're selling?

He is selling 10 LiFePO4 48v 5.4kWh batteries.
Not rack mount. Look stackable though. Durarack can hold them.

 

[400bird]

Posting pictures and some specs on the batteries might help sell them...

Are they these ones?

eFlex 5.4kWh LFP Battery – Fortress Power

www.fortresspower.com

 

[Ampster]

30 watts? I'm guessing it is doing an absorption phase. Can you turn it off?

I am guessing it is the overhead of the relay that keeps them turned on?

 

[Shimmy]

I am guessing it is the overhead of the relay that keeps them turned on?

Based on "the other thread," it is a combination of the BMS, the relay, and a few other little things. They seem to be more designed for duck-curve peak shaving rather than off-grid or fully self-sufficient use. I believe the manufacturer indicated that the real losses were more like 18W, but over the course of a 18-hour discharge it starts to matter. If you have the extra capacity for cloudy days then it can easily be 1kWh/battery = 20% in losses over a couple days.

The seller's issue with the batteries is ultimately more linked to being under-paneled and thinking they could get away with extra batteries to compensate-- it is an honest mistake/misunderstanding about how the practical application of the system works that would be a valuable lesson for many.

I hope @Will Prowse someday does a video comparing losses of different batteries over a 24-hour discharge. It seems to give a huge incentive to go with the 300Ah 48V batteries rather than the 100Ah batteries. I think it is dishonest of the battery manufacturers to list cell capacity as the system capacity and not list any losses or parasitic loads.

 

[MurphyGuy]

Too bad I can't get one of those things to fit into my golf cart or I might have bought one if the price was right.