Higher Quality All in One's... like MPP solar but better!

[mrdavvv]

So the MPP solars are very practical and they work allright, however i see them as a solution for small residential installations, and probably no the best option if you have a bigger place or want higher reliability.

So im looking for an all in one unit, but with better build quality, more range in the MPPT and a nicer configuration / monitoring.

Requirements:

• Automatic transfer switch to feed the installation with Solar / Utility or Bateries, depending of the programed conditions.
• Configurable priority of energy supply, putting first solar, then batteries, then Utility or any order you want.
• Able to charge batteries from Solar or Utility.
• Compatible with LIFEPO4 voltages, preferably with better configuration of charging voltages and times of charging. (24 and 48V its ok)
• Compatible with DIY powerpacks.
• Good monitoring, preferable with a web server and wifi.
• Split phase (220v) or 120V single phase (America installation)
• Be able to feed the grid.
• With UL1741
• Higher capacity in the MPPT and AC capacity, MPPs solars are very limited in this aspect, with only 150V and 2000W, im looking to work with higher voltage.
• Around 6 to 8KW capacity.

There is some options, although i havent checked them in detail:

GROWATT SPH Series

SPH3000-6000 - Inversores para almacenamiento de energía - Growatt

SPH3000-6000

www.growatt.es

Also from voltronics, but should have higher build quality. Up to 6KW, compatible with Lifepo4 and simillar setup as the MPPs. They seem to meet al my specifications, but ultimately would preffer something from a tier1 manufacturer, like Victron, SMA or simillar for peace of mind.

Victron
They just presented an All in one model, but only for Europe markets and it doesnt charge batteries from AC, too bad....

Schneider Electric

XW Pro 120/240V

The Schneider Electric XW Pro 6848 solar inverter provides flexible design with optional generator integration for home and small businesses.

solar.schneider-electric.com

They also produce hybrid inverters, but havent check in detail, they are not very popular around here. People complaint about the monitoring device, wich itself cost 500USD!

SMA
Dont think they have something?, the sunny boys seem to be for offgrid, and you would need to have an ONgrid inverter, the offgrid one and someway of making all of this work.

Fronius
They have some solution, but think they only work with certain batteries.

What else its around there?, any experience with biggers hybrids?, should i purchase the growatt and keep with something im familiar with?

Thanks!

 

[mattleonard]

A number of recent posts have raised the Victron Easy Solar (several varieties/sizes available) and Smart Solar (looks similar to the MPP/Growatt, only in 48v). However, neither are available in the North America market yet.

The Easy Solar seems to be closer to their Multiplus + MPPT - still a low frequency, heavy duty inverter. The Smart Solar seems to be a HF inverter and lighter-duty. Though given the Victron name - I'd still assume it to be more reliable and better built than MPP or Growatt.

 

[mrdavvv]

A number of recent posts have raised the Victron Easy Solar (several varieties/sizes available) and Smart Solar (looks similar to the MPP/Growatt, only in 48v). However, neither are available in the North America market yet.

The Easy Solar seems to be closer to their Multiplus + MPPT - still a low frequency, heavy duty inverter. The Smart Solar seems to be a HF inverter and lighter-duty. Though given the Victron name - I'd still assume it to be more reliable and better built than MPP or Growatt.

I discarded Victron as i need the unit in a couple of months, and the US versions might take a while... but after reading the topic some user posted about an Autotransformer, that might just make it work!, ill check in detail.. thanks for the input.

 

[svetz]

You might want to look at Sol-Arc. Enphase with ensemble or Tesla powerwalls call also do all that.

 

[mrdavvv]

You might want to look at Sol-Arc. Enphase with ensemble or Tesla powerwalls call also do all that.

Forgot to mention, i would like to use brandless power packs (DIY batteries) without any special communication protocol. I will check the Emphase solution, but most likely they need their own batteries!

 

[svetz]

Forgot to mention, i would like to use brandless power packs (DIY batteries) without any special communication protocol. I will check the Emphase solution, but most likely they need their own batteries!

Enphase does have the Enpower (Switch) and Encharge (battery). But, the Tesla Powerwalls are supposed to work with their microinverters too.

A DIY battery would be difficult for any mircoinverter architecture without AC Coupling, see Incrementally Adding AC Batteries... there's some discussion in there about a DIY AC battery...but if anyone's done it successfully/safely DIY yet I haven't heard about it.

 

[solardad]

So the MPP solars are very practical and they work allright, however i see them as a solution for small residential installations, and probably no the best option if you have a bigger place or want higher reliability.

So im looking for an all in one unit, but with better build quality, more range in the MPPT and a nicer configuration / monitoring.

Requirements:

• Automatic transfer switch to feed the installation with Solar / Utility or Bateries, depending of the programed conditions.
• Configurable priority of energy supply, putting first solar, then batteries, then Utility or any order you want.
• Able to charge batteries from Solar or Utility.
• Compatible with LIFEPO4 voltages, preferably with better configuration of charging voltages and times of charging. (24 and 48V its ok)
• Compatible with DIY powerpacks.
• Good monitoring, preferable with a web server and wifi.
• Split phase (220v) or 120V single phase (America installation)
• Be able to feed the grid.
• With UL1741
• Higher capacity in the MPPT and AC capacity, MPPs solars are very limited in this aspect, with only 150V and 2000W, im looking to work with higher voltage.
• Around 6 to 8KW capacity.

There is some options, although i havent checked them in detail:












What else its around there?, any experience with biggers hybrids?, should i purchase the growatt and keep with something im familiar with?

Thanks!

DEYE - Basically the same as Sol-Ark but at a cheaper price. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/deye-inverter-ul-listed-available-in-us-sol-ark-parent.13942/

I own a Sol-Ark 12k and I believe it is a step up on features (and price) over the Growatt. I'd investigate the DEYE for an all-in-one.

 

[rhino]

Compatible with DIY powerpacks

Sol-Ark is not good with this unless you just want to cut-off power with a relay to it which Sol-Ark doesn't recommend. They only support this with pre-built LiFePo4 batteries made by certain manufacturers (read expensive). Others are using active balancer BMS with larger amps to help prevent any cells from becoming out of balance in the hopes of cells never going out of balance to cause a problem.

Good monitoring, preferable with a web server and wifi.

Depending on what you expect, Sol-Ark only provides their own web site that you have to send your data from your system to over internet. You can not even monitor your own system if you don't have internet connection. (There are people reverse engineering this to bypass this but I wouldn't want to rely on that).

 

[rhino]

Just a comment since you say you are looking for higher reliability. I have trouble with conceptually thinking of an "all-in-one" with higher reliability. You now have multiple fundamental parts of your system all in a single unit unless you have multiple of those units as a backup and/or installing in parallel.

 

[Hedges]

SMA
Dont think they have something?, the sunny boys seem to be for offgrid, and you would need to have an ONgrid inverter, the offgrid one and someway of making all of this work.

Sunny Boy is on-grid, and works with battery inverters that produce a local grid (for off-grid or grid-backup)

SMA doesn't offer "all in one", but separate Battery <--> AC (Sunny Island, or Sunny Boy Storage) and AC --> PV (Sunny Boy).
They used to carry PV --> Battery (Sunny Island Charger), not labeled SMA anymore. Still available from OEM who is MSTE
Midnight Classic also has PV --> battery
(both those brands have a data link so Sunny Island manages charge settings. Other chargers can be used with a shunt to just let Sunny Island keep track of amp hours.)

The SMA offerings span about 4 kW to 75 kW for residential systems in the US, a few times bigger for off-grid distributed systems.
(Also 2 MW and up commercial, and something in between in Europe, like 75 kW battery inverter to couple with larger PV inverters.)

 

[mrdavvv]

Just a comment since you say you are looking for higher reliability. I have trouble with conceptually thinking of an "all-in-one" with higher reliability. You now have multiple fundamental parts of your system all in a single unit unless you have multiple of those units as a backup and/or installing in parallel.

I get your point, but reliability as most things is subjective, i think ill be comfortable enough with a tier 1 all in one, and im probably buying a couple so that should be good enough, also nothing beats just placing the inverter and having a full system running....

Sunny Boy is on-grid, and works with battery inverters that produce a local grid (for off-grid or grid-backup)

SMA doesn't offer "all in one", but separate Battery <--> AC (Sunny Island, or Sunny Boy Storage) and AC --> PV (Sunny Boy).
They used to carry PV --> Battery (Sunny Island Charger), not labeled SMA anymore. Still available from OEM who is MSTE
Midnight Classic also has PV --> battery

Hello Hedges!..... Oh right!, i mixed the boys with the islands. I really like SMA equipment, but not sure if i can accomplish something like i have right now with the MPP Solar all in ones... a grid tie system that automatically swith to Solar / Battery / Generator if utility fails!... integrated ATS with anti islanding protection, also feeding excess solar power to the grid, also overload bypass, adjusting charge voltages and charging current.....

Ill give another look to the datasheets, if you have any reference for an installation like this it would be a great help.

 

[Hedges]

Sunny Island with grid and generator requires a transfer switch; it only has one AC input.
If grid fails, after battery gets low it will start the generator and charge from it.

Not sure what you mean by overload bypass. It has a 56A relay, will generate current from battery if load exceeds what it was told grid or generator can supply.

It will let Sunny Boy backfeed through it to grid, but not to generator (open relay and adjust frequency, if it can't dump all the power to battery).
It can export to grid from DC coupled sources, but only if they drive battery voltage higher than Sunny Island wants.

What sort of adjusting voltage/current do you want? It is set for battery type/parameters and adjusts according to temperature.

This brochure shows systems with generator, but not grid and generator.

https://files.sma.de/downloads/SISYSGUIDE-KEN140421.pdf?_ga=2.245561601.445138855.1604120404-621369231.1589916091

 

[Picasso]

Playing with this one right now,15kw version. Happy so far, mfg even willing to give access so I can play with and pumping a leaf pack via mppt input. I'm offgrid so cant report on how well it grid feeds. Happy with it so far, played with a number of panel configs. UL work is still ongoing. http://www.pomcube.com/netzero-plus-specs.html can order with/out batts.

Was gonna go Outback skybox but wanted to play with HVDC.

 

[Hedges]

Playing with this one right now,15kw version. Happy so far, mfg even willing to give access so I can play with and pumping a leaf pack via mppt input. I'm offgrid so cant report on how well it grid feeds. Happy with it so far, played with a number of panel configs. UL work is still ongoing. http://www.pomcube.com/netzero-plus-specs.html can order with/out batts.

Was gonna go Outback skybox but wanted to play with HVDC.

iCAN NetZero Plus Energy Storage System

Scroll down to the picture, "Be well prepared"
That's either one big solar panel, or one tiny house!

 

[Supermo26]

iCAN NetZero Plus Energy Storage System

Scroll down to the picture, "Be well prepared"
That's either one big solar panel, or one tiny house!

How much are these? $$$?

 

[Picasso]

@Supermo26 I dont have a current price list of them have to ask them, tariffs got changed around again on solar gear. inverter only was on higher end of $4k

 

[mrdavvv]

Sunny Island with grid and generator requires a transfer switch; it only has one AC input.
If grid fails, after battery gets low it will start the generator and charge from it.

Not sure what you mean by overload bypass. It has a 56A relay, will generate current from battery if load exceeds what it was told grid or generator can supply.

It will let Sunny Boy backfeed through it to grid, but not to generator (open relay and adjust frequency, if it can't dump all the power to battery).
It can export to grid from DC coupled sources, but only if they drive battery voltage higher than Sunny Island wants.

What sort of adjusting voltage/current do you want? It is set for battery type/parameters and adjusts according to temperature.

This brochure shows systems with generator, but not grid and generator.

https://files.sma.de/downloads/SISY...601.445138855.1604120404-621369231.1589916091

Hello Hedges.

About your question, i will use a 24 or 48V lifepo4 DIY battery, so nothing special. But i would like be able to change the timing on absortion and bulk charging phases (Cant do in the MPP), or fine tune the low voltage disconnect (Can do in the MPP but the higher option its too low for LIFEPO4) and maybe other details that im forgetting right know.

I need to free one afternoon to check in detail the possible setups for SMA's, ill check that link. Thanks!

Playing with this one right now,15kw version. Happy so far, mfg even willing to give access so I can play with and pumping a leaf pack via mppt input. I'm offgrid so cant report on how well it grid feeds. Happy with it so far, played with a number of panel configs. UL work is still ongoing. http://www.pomcube.com/netzero-plus-specs.html can order with/out batts.

Was gonna go Outback skybox but wanted to play with HVDC.

Those guys are good at marketing, the product itself looks pretty good!, unfortunately uses high voltage batteries (400v). I already have my lifepo4 banks (24 / 48V) so too bad!... but ill keep that one in mind, really liked it.

 

[Hedges]

Hello Hedges.

About your question, i will use a 24 or 48V lifepo4 DIY battery, so nothing special. But i would like be able to change the timing on absortion and bulk charging phases (Cant do in the MPP), or fine tune the low voltage disconnect (Can do in the MPP but the higher option its too low for LIFEPO4) and maybe other details that im forgetting right know.

I need to free one afternoon to check in detail the possible setups for SMA's, ill check that link. Thanks!


Those guys are good at marketing, the product itself looks pretty good!, unfortunately uses high voltage batteries (400v). I already have my lifepo4 banks (24 / 48V) so too bad!... but ill keep that one in mind, really liked it.

The Sunny Island parameters allow adjustable voltage for absorption, and adjustable time. There is also a voltage & time for equalizing charge, but for VRLA that defaults to same voltage. The voltages have adjustable temperature compensation, 0 to 10 mV/degree.

It has SoC low-battery disconnect and some voltage settings, but I'm not clear if it has a strict voltage disconnect. There also seems to be a "dumb BMS" mode that could be just voltage controlled.

 

[mrdavvv]

Sounds like they have plenty of options, im probably taking this weekend to do some good research about them, maybe i will be getting some sunny boys too! , thanks for the advice.

 

[toms]

If you use SMA in combination with a REC-BMS, the BMS controls all of the battery charging parameters. It is fully programmable. Check out their website.

I’m a bit snowed under with projects, but have a system i’m about to convert to an REC-BMS, i plan to document the setup on this site.