Home dialysis solar generator back up.
- Thread starter Howardg
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Talk to the technician of the dialysis machine he said it’s 115 V 120 watts and 10 AMPS
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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Those numbers don't agree with each other.
Could be 12V, 10A which is 120W if it has an AC adapter that puts out 12V.
or 115V 10A which multiplies out to 1150W
Can you read the labels? Take a picture and post?
Either is possible to support, but if over 1000W and 10 hours, needs a larger battery for over 10,000 watt-hours storage.
If 120W, then 10 hours is 1200 watt-hours. There are batteries which can support that. Solar to recharge could be as little as 250W (summer) or maybe 600W or so to recharge in winter That assumes recharging in a single day.
How frequently do you use it? Once every 3 days? Every day?
Could be 12V, 10A which is 120W if it has an AC adapter that puts out 12V.
or 115V 10A which multiplies out to 1150W
Can you read the labels? Take a picture and post?
Either is possible to support, but if over 1000W and 10 hours, needs a larger battery for over 10,000 watt-hours storage.
If 120W, then 10 hours is 1200 watt-hours. There are batteries which can support that. Solar to recharge could be as little as 250W (summer) or maybe 600W or so to recharge in winter That assumes recharging in a single day.
How frequently do you use it? Once every 3 days? Every day?
Wish I could post a pic but on the back label reads like this (115v. 50/60 Hz 600va. )these are the Only numbers on label and the only label.Not looking to build but buy 1000 w 1500 w or 2000 w battery generator to plug wall . I’m on machine every day.
Hedges
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OK, those numbers are useful. 600VA is the power consumption.
I assume it does NOT have any substantial electric motor, nothing like a refrigeration unit, which would need a larger inverter to start.
A 1000W sine wave inverter (or "solar charger") ought to power it.
What I'm not sure about is how large a battery is required. If it draws 600VA continuously, then 10 hours operation would require 6000Wh of storage.
If it only draws 600VA part of the time (like to warm water) then draws less power, a smaller battery could work.
People recommend a "Kill-a-Watt" to measure consumption over time.
www.harborfreight.com
Here's an example portable power station, only 720 Wh which is about 1/10th as big as you need:
Unless you get watt-hour measurements with kill-a-watt, I will assume you need 6000 Wh of usable storage, which is 500 Ah at 12V.
For instance, 4x 6V, 400 Ah batteries for 12V 800 AH gross, because 500 Ah is reasonable depth of discharge for AGM lead-acid:
www.solar-electric.com
That is $673 each, would need four for $2700, plus inverter/charger, also PV panels if desired.
This page, largest I see is 2400 Wh; you would need 2.5 times as much storage.
www.trustedhints.com
So I suggest getting a kill-a-watt and finding out how many watt-hours are actually consumed. Possibly a 2400 Wh unit will turn out to be sufficient.
I assume it does NOT have any substantial electric motor, nothing like a refrigeration unit, which would need a larger inverter to start.
A 1000W sine wave inverter (or "solar charger") ought to power it.
What I'm not sure about is how large a battery is required. If it draws 600VA continuously, then 10 hours operation would require 6000Wh of storage.
If it only draws 600VA part of the time (like to warm water) then draws less power, a smaller battery could work.
People recommend a "Kill-a-Watt" to measure consumption over time.
KILL A WATT Electric Monitor
Amazing deals on this Kill-A-Watt™ Electric Monitor at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.
www.harborfreight.com
P3 Power Meter Kill A Watt 125 V 5-1/8 " Hx2-3/8 " Wx1-5/8 " D By P3 International - Walmart.com
Free 2-day shipping. Buy P3 Power Meter Kill A Watt 125 V 5-1/8 " Hx2-3/8 " Wx1-5/8 " D By P3 International at Walmart.com
www.walmart.com
Here's an example portable power station, only 720 Wh which is about 1/10th as big as you need:
Unless you get watt-hour measurements with kill-a-watt, I will assume you need 6000 Wh of usable storage, which is 500 Ah at 12V.
For instance, 4x 6V, 400 Ah batteries for 12V 800 AH gross, because 500 Ah is reasonable depth of discharge for AGM lead-acid:
Sun Xtender PVX-4050HT AGM Sealed Battery
Sun Xtender PVX-4050HT AGM Sealed Battery
www.solar-electric.com
That is $673 each, would need four for $2700, plus inverter/charger, also PV panels if desired.
This page, largest I see is 2400 Wh; you would need 2.5 times as much storage.
The 6 Best Solar Generators of 2022 | Reviews & Buying Guide
Solar power generators are a great alternative power source for light usage. Also, it saves lots of your money on fuel that you use in conventional generator.
www.trustedhints.com
So I suggest getting a kill-a-watt and finding out how many watt-hours are actually consumed. Possibly a 2400 Wh unit will turn out to be sufficient.
Ok I thank you for the help I will get kill a wattOK, those numbers are useful. 600VA is the power consumption.
I assume it does NOT have any substantial electric motor, nothing like a refrigeration unit, which would need a larger inverter to start.
A 1000W sine wave inverter (or "solar charger") ought to power it.
What I'm not sure about is how large a battery is required. If it draws 600VA continuously, then 10 hours operation would require 6000Wh of storage.
If it only draws 600VA part of the time (like to warm water) then draws less power, a smaller battery could work.
People recommend a "Kill-a-Watt" to measure consumption over time.
KILL A WATT Electric Monitor
Amazing deals on this Kill-A-Watt™ Electric Monitor at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.
P3 Power Meter Kill A Watt 125 V 5-1/8 " Hx2-3/8 " Wx1-5/8 " D By P3 International - Walmart.com
Free 2-day shipping. Buy P3 Power Meter Kill A Watt 125 V 5-1/8 " Hx2-3/8 " Wx1-5/8 " D By P3 International at Walmart.comwww.walmart.com
Here's an example portable power station, only 720 Wh which is about 1/10th as big as you need:
Unless you get watt-hour measurements with kill-a-watt, I will assume you need 6000 Wh of usable storage, which is 500 Ah at 12V.
For instance, 4x 6V, 400 Ah batteries for 12V 800 AH gross, because 500 Ah is reasonable depth of discharge for AGM lead-acid:
Sun Xtender PVX-4050HT AGM Sealed Battery
Sun Xtender PVX-4050HT AGM Sealed Battery
That is $673 each, would need four for $2700, plus inverter/charger, also PV panels if desired.
This page, largest I see is 2400 Wh; you would need 2.5 times as much storage.
The 6 Best Solar Generators of 2022 | Reviews & Buying Guide
Solar power generators are a great alternative power source for light usage. Also, it saves lots of your money on fuel that you use in conventional generator.
So I suggest getting a kill-a-watt and finding out how many watt-hours are actually consumed. Possibly a 2400 Wh unit will turn out to be sufficient.
Maast
Compulsive Tinkerer
My wifes home peritoneal dialyses machine is what prompted me to make my first battery bank 10ish years ago. She ran it every night for about 4 years before she got a transplant. It has a heater for the fluid that just chugs power. Whatever you measure be prepared for a shock at just how much power they use.
You're not going to find a 'solar generator' to meet your needs - you'll need a full up system. If you're not comfortable DIYing a battery pack from raw cells probably the best deal out there right now is the Gyll packs from Signature solar. You'll need at least two of them to give you a two day buffer and a top quality power-efficient inverter/charger.
I highly recommend Magnum, Outback, Victron, Samlex or SMA inverter/chargers, I would not recommend a Growatt or especially a MPP as it has a horrific self-usage rate. I wouldnt even consider one of the cheapo chinese inverters, remember this thing is keeping you alive and none of the cheapos have enough reliability to trust.
Warning: this isnt going to be cheap.
You're not going to find a 'solar generator' to meet your needs - you'll need a full up system. If you're not comfortable DIYing a battery pack from raw cells probably the best deal out there right now is the Gyll packs from Signature solar. You'll need at least two of them to give you a two day buffer and a top quality power-efficient inverter/charger.
I highly recommend Magnum, Outback, Victron, Samlex or SMA inverter/chargers, I would not recommend a Growatt or especially a MPP as it has a horrific self-usage rate. I wouldnt even consider one of the cheapo chinese inverters, remember this thing is keeping you alive and none of the cheapos have enough reliability to trust.
Warning: this isnt going to be cheap.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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I find articles on the power cost and PV systems for dialysis, so it probably is at the upper end of power consumption.
www.greendialysis.org
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Did you want to put in PV panels to run this during grid outages, or just charge batteries from the grid so it is always ready for one more cycle if the grid goes down?
PV panels sufficient to power it actually aren't all that much money.
Batteries are the most expensive part. They are also relatively large and heavy, so probably won't be in an all-in-one unit. Except for industrial UPS that might be 500 to 1000 lbs and the size of a small desk.
Bolting together an inverter/charger with off the shelf batteries is relatively simple. You could hire someone to do it, don't know how easy to find competent people.
There are solar companies with products like Tesla Powerwall who do battery backup for homes; you would want it dedicated to your critical equipment.
As Maast says, there are several quality brands worth considering.
Power Saving For Home Patients
As haemodialysis (HD) is a power-hungry process, and as electricity costs rise, home HD patients are inevitably faced with escalating electricity costs – the extent of which are largely determined by the dialysis regimen. For home haemodialysis patients, longer and more frequent dialysis...
www.greendialysis.org
Solar-assisted hemodialysis - PubMed
Solar-assisted power is feasible and cost-effective. Dialysis services should assess their local solar conditions and determine whether this ecosensitive power option might suit their circumstance.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Did you want to put in PV panels to run this during grid outages, or just charge batteries from the grid so it is always ready for one more cycle if the grid goes down?
PV panels sufficient to power it actually aren't all that much money.
Batteries are the most expensive part. They are also relatively large and heavy, so probably won't be in an all-in-one unit. Except for industrial UPS that might be 500 to 1000 lbs and the size of a small desk.
Bolting together an inverter/charger with off the shelf batteries is relatively simple. You could hire someone to do it, don't know how easy to find competent people.
There are solar companies with products like Tesla Powerwall who do battery backup for homes; you would want it dedicated to your critical equipment.
As Maast says, there are several quality brands worth considering.
Well thank you for your input will look into it but may be to expensive appreciate it
Maast
Compulsive Tinkerer
The good thing is that you won't have a particularly high peak usage, its just high usage over the 10 hours the unit is in use. This means you can use a fairly small inverter in the 1500-2000 watt range.
If money is a tight issue, and the batterys will mainly just be floating, then that opens up using AGM batteries as your power storage as they won't be cycled and a full discharge would be a very rare event.
If all you're wanting is basically a big UPS a 24v 2000 watt Victron multiplus can be found for about $1100 and six 110AH Universal Battery UB12100 AGMs can be had for $225 each giving you a ~7500 watt-hours batt bank. That'd translate to a 600 watt load running for 12 hours. Total cost is $2450. Add another 6 batteries for 24 hours of run time and you're looking at $3800.
A bit of a trick to extending the life of AGMs on float service is to float them about 1v below the recommended voltage and running a Pulsetech Power Pulse desulfator. The lowered voltage greatly reduces positive plate erosion and the desulfator keep sulfation from building up.
If money is a tight issue, and the batterys will mainly just be floating, then that opens up using AGM batteries as your power storage as they won't be cycled and a full discharge would be a very rare event.
If all you're wanting is basically a big UPS a 24v 2000 watt Victron multiplus can be found for about $1100 and six 110AH Universal Battery UB12100 AGMs can be had for $225 each giving you a ~7500 watt-hours batt bank. That'd translate to a 600 watt load running for 12 hours. Total cost is $2450. Add another 6 batteries for 24 hours of run time and you're looking at $3800.
A bit of a trick to extending the life of AGMs on float service is to float them about 1v below the recommended voltage and running a Pulsetech Power Pulse desulfator. The lowered voltage greatly reduces positive plate erosion and the desulfator keep sulfation from building up.
James Staples V
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Hey, Dialysis caregiver here. I totally understand your concern. What machine are you on ? my wife is on the Nexstage NS with a Pureflow. The numbers I pulled off the back of our machines is ;
> Nexstage NS- 100-120/230 V 50-60 Hz 600 VA [wtf is VA? ]
> ; Pureflow -100-120 V 50-60 Hz 600 VA . our power is currently out... wife has not had Tx in 3 days, she normally does 6-7 hrs per Tx. 3-4 times per week.
I would really love to know what size battery back up to have also !
Just curious, is your wife on PD [Peritoneal Dialysis] or HHD [Home Hemo Dialysis] Few things suck more than being mid treatment and having the power go out. not so safe either.
My wife has been on several Dialysis org. Boards and had been a National Kidney foundation for several years. She has just hit her 20 year mark on HHD ,I
have been surprised that basically life support in or out of hospitals and clinics has been so black dead silent on the importance of battery back up for patients. Just shows how expendable they are... after... when you die, 20 more are lining up for Dialysis.
I would really be happy to discuss with you on anything Dialysis, although my wife is the expert, and it is very rare for a Dr. to tell her anything new in the Kidney world as she works to stay at least a year or more ahead on New things coming to the issue . Feel free to hit her or us up.
But seriously, I would be ever so thankful for someone to come up with battery back-up for our [yours and ours] machines. I would like at least 3 days of treatment stored, but am happy too get at least one day to start and if possible add on as our trickle of money allows.
Hope somehow you can get the info you need, what I find difficult is people who answer , "its easy just figure it out yourself" : lets hope I am not close by if they ever need open hear surgury or brain surgury . or are broke down on the road ... "Hey, its easy , just put one foot in front of the other to the town 20 mile that way !"
I wish us both luck , and hope someone can 'Fill in the gaps with info we can use .
Blessings
James Staples V
Hedges
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"VA" = Volts x Amps. That is approximately watts, a bit different to us engineers but close enough for the lay person.
Your power supply should be able to supply 600W continuously to this device. It may need to deliver a brief surge to higher wattage, maybe 1200W maybe 3000W for a second or so. Depends on whether it has big motors (refrigeration) or big heating elements.
Multiply VA or Watts by hours of operation and you'll know how many Wh (watt hours) of usable storage is required to keep it running through its cycle even in the event of a power failure. 600W x 7 hours = 4200 Wh.
Most vendors will say their equipment is not approved for life support equipment. That leaves you to buy whatever very expensive equipment is approved, or make your own decisions regarding risk.
I would think you would have at least a portable generator so as to not delay treatment.
Your power supply should be able to supply 600W continuously to this device. It may need to deliver a brief surge to higher wattage, maybe 1200W maybe 3000W for a second or so. Depends on whether it has big motors (refrigeration) or big heating elements.
Multiply VA or Watts by hours of operation and you'll know how many Wh (watt hours) of usable storage is required to keep it running through its cycle even in the event of a power failure. 600W x 7 hours = 4200 Wh.
Most vendors will say their equipment is not approved for life support equipment. That leaves you to buy whatever very expensive equipment is approved, or make your own decisions regarding risk.
I would think you would have at least a portable generator so as to not delay treatment.
+1 on multiple backup power sources. In addition to battery backup, I would suggest a propane or natural gas powered generator. LPG or NG powered generators have the ability to sit unused for much longer periods of time without fuel deterioration issues and are much more likely to actually run with needed. They'll also provide power during prolonged outages in bad weather.
James Staples V
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Thanks for the awesome info. Now I have somewhere to start on . My son offered to bring is huge gas powered generator . He bought it new, and decided he doesn't want it. We both want to go as solar as possible .
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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There are low-cost and high end inverters available. Price range about $200 to $8000
Lithium batteries are getting popular and economical for daily cycling, but I think AGM is tried and true for occasional backup with life up to 10 years. The one I use costs about $250 per kWh of total capacity, plan to use about 70% or less.
PV is great, low cost (if all power it produces is used) and quality panels should last for decades. Some brands have shown earlier failures.
If you put in a system which is grid-tie, either export for net metering or zero export, the PV panels can pay for themselves by reducing utility bill. Then, during a power failure, they supply backup power together with batteries.
Complete systems can range from $1k to $20k, but to include the size battery I think you need probably $2k and up.
All considering consumer to industrial grade equipment, not "life support" hospital grade.
Here are some kits
www.altestore.com
Lithium batteries are getting popular and economical for daily cycling, but I think AGM is tried and true for occasional backup with life up to 10 years. The one I use costs about $250 per kWh of total capacity, plan to use about 70% or less.
PV is great, low cost (if all power it produces is used) and quality panels should last for decades. Some brands have shown earlier failures.
If you put in a system which is grid-tie, either export for net metering or zero export, the PV panels can pay for themselves by reducing utility bill. Then, during a power failure, they supply backup power together with batteries.
Complete systems can range from $1k to $20k, but to include the size battery I think you need probably $2k and up.
All considering consumer to industrial grade equipment, not "life support" hospital grade.
Here are some kits
Battery Backup Solar Power Systems
Battery backup for a grid-tied solar system allows you to keep the power on when the grid goes down or an emergency strikes. Get solar plus storage kits here!
www.altestore.com
Would any of this be covered by insurance? You would think insurance would want a dialysis patient to have the machine operational…
3 days of ability is a tall order from batteries alone. Solar helps the load during most days, but agm is slow to charge… lithium is far more solar efficient. 12000Wh storage is not cheap from lithium… having solar replenish usage can make the storage number smaller…
I certainly would want a magnasine, or one of the other high end low frequency, low standby consumption inverters…
3 days of ability is a tall order from batteries alone. Solar helps the load during most days, but agm is slow to charge… lithium is far more solar efficient. 12000Wh storage is not cheap from lithium… having solar replenish usage can make the storage number smaller…
I certainly would want a magnasine, or one of the other high end low frequency, low standby consumption inverters…
Do you own your home where you could have a solar installer put a system on the roof with a sizable battery back-up integrated into the system?
This would allow the power system to work for you every day saving on the electric bill. Might be able to lease the system and most of the cost would be paid with a lower utility bill. This would also run other critical loads during a difficult situation.
This would allow the power system to work for you every day saving on the electric bill. Might be able to lease the system and most of the cost would be paid with a lower utility bill. This would also run other critical loads during a difficult situation.
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