diy solar

diy solar

Home Insurance & Non UL Approved Equipment

of what we talk about here just dosent pass code
There is a conundrum
If it’s safely done by someone who knows enough to know what they don’t know…

Today I installed a masthead on an LB to pass through the metal siding on my buddy’s barn so the powerco would hook him back up. He bought the property a few years back but the powerco said the wire passing through the metal was not ok (the original sheetmetal pass-through having rotted away probably decades ago and the powerco pulled the cables off at the pole at some point).
For grins, I pulled the cover off the antique cutler sub-panel only to discover the 60A tied main breaker was doubled- the two main cables were inserted in the 60A breakers along with the feed to the 3-prong 240 outlet for a welder or whatever previous owner had. So no breaker to the 240 outlet.

The multiple other existing 20A outlets were not GFCI and this is a dirt floor building. Probably predates GFCI but still: what else is wrong when the welder socket wasn’t even breakered.

Stuff like that keeps folks like us under the scrutiny of ordinances and lawyers at the insurance company.

Today we have means of acquiring equipment that produces enough volts and amps to create fire, and some folks connect it with insufficient gage wire to an oversized huge modsine inverter that produces deadly voltage, and then they try to run the microwave and 10,000 devices off that.
I mean this forum is great but how many times each week do people post questions trying to fix some totally wonked install. I’m not making fun of anyone, but this is a reality.
 
Has anyone had to pay for a solar rider on their home owner policy ? I had coverage in 2011 that included my solar. Then in 2018 my insurer specifically targeted solar at renewal and excluded solar moving forward. I have a quote from that same outfit at $2 per $100 for my solar, subject to all the enormous deductibles in hurricane-risky Florida. What is anyone else paying for their solar riders ?
 
Some of us here, like me, have probably expanded their originally permitted install. So we work in a grey area I presume. Additional panels, added with the same regard for code, should not easily trigger any insurance denial. Just be sure you have someone in the know involved with what you do yourself. I even observe the Schedule 40 vs 80 pvc needs above ground vs underground.
 
Insurance in Florida is a shit storm now, seems they don't want to cover anything above the waistline !!!!
I suppose they think the panels are part of the roof and want nothing to do with them anymore. Why they don't fight the "roof damage" scam I don't know.
 
The old Florida law forced insurance companies to pay for home owner lawyers if insure company lost. You do the math. Its the lawyers feeding frenzy.
 
So would you say $2 per $100 is a good / fair price. Its like one total loss every 50 years.
 
Has anyone had to pay for a solar rider on their home owner policy ? I had coverage in 2011 that included my solar. Then in 2018 my insurer specifically targeted solar at renewal and excluded solar moving forward. I have a quote from that same outfit at $2 per $100 for my solar, subject to all the enormous deductibles in hurricane-risky Florida. What is anyone else paying for their solar riders ?

No. I told them I had solar installed and they just wanted to know the approximate install cost. It didn't change my policy by even a penny.
 
My insurance paid for replacement of two panels under "personal property". Since mine are not on my main house they said they are not covered under the regular house coverage.
 
I have run into required UL approvals on custom switchgear on a couple of combined heat and power projects. The gear is assembled out of UL listed components by a custom switchgear builder. The local AHJ insists that the overall assembly gets UL approval. We push back but usually have to pay UL inspector to visit the site and do a site approval. Same with control panels, most panel shops either get the assembly approved by internal staff or hire it out.
 
So would you say $2 per $100 is a good / fair price. Its like one total loss every 50 years.
So that’s $1000/year insurance for a $50K system. You’d only pay that much for insurance if you were sure you would have a loss and the insurance company wouldn’t offer it if they thought they weren’t going to pay out.

I don’t think I’d pay the insurance rate imho
 
Your agent does not know anything, he should call a company underwriter or claims agent. If its not UL and caused the fire they more than likely will not pay.
 
Makes your Insurance nonexistent .
In my area I can’t get a permit with equipment with out ul Listing .
No permit no insurance
My area doesn’t have permits or inspectors, nor is my state under any form of statewide code compliance in terms of electrical or solar.

Only permit required is septic and it just requires drawings and a form…no inspections.

That being said, I still want to be compliant with NEC 2014. They can stick NEC 2018 and 20 up their fifth point of contact with over complicated DC rapid shutdown. These systems violate KISS as it is. My panels will likely be mounted on an storage outbuilding and not a home though.
 
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Your agent does not know anything, he should call a company underwriter or claims agent. If its not UL and caused the fire they more than likely will not pay.

And you base this on what?

I've seen way too much shoddy equipment that is still somehow UL listed. I have not heard of someone's house burning down due to bad electrical that was done wrong by a homeowner and the insurance not paying for it. Half the crap wiring I've seen in a house was done many years before the current owners lived there (and sometimes it seems a miracle it didn't burn down a long time ago). Can you imagine your house burning down and your insurance refusing to pay because someone 20 years ago did something wrong and it was no fault of your own?
 
And you base this on what?

I've seen way too much shoddy equipment that is still somehow UL listed. I have not heard of someone's house burning down due to bad electrical that was done wrong by a homeowner and the insurance not paying for it. Half the crap wiring I've seen in a house was done many years before the current owners lived there (and sometimes it seems a miracle it didn't burn down a long time ago). Can you imagine your house burning down and your insurance refusing to pay because someone 20 years ago did something wrong and it was no fault of your own?
My son had a friend that built computers, non UL approved power supply which is common place. But the Ins company held up payment on the house fire claim for months, said it was the power supply. Have you been around After a fire and dealt with a claims agent? I would guess not. BTW I have never seen UL approved equipment I would call shoddy.
 
Much of the crap out of china is anything but UL listed. https://a.co/d/4rN10BW
Top item in image is what they sold a year ago, bottom is current. What is missing ?
Ad at that link claims UL listing, FRAUD from Amazon. Surprise !! Not.
 

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Has anyone had to pay for a solar rider on their home owner policy ? ...Florida...
Didn't Florida add an insurance requirement (liability?) not long ago for PV?

Homeowner's policies in general are a scam. For my house, insurance will only cover about 50% of replacement cost based on the formulas they use. Fortunately the premiums are aligned with that, but boy would it suck to have it burn down.

After finding some of the things that I did in the house done by a licensed electrician (finger-tight circuit breaker lugs were the worst) I doubt many insurance companies would be able to deny you for general wiring issues. The problem comes when you do something that dramatically increases risk. A Li-Poly battery that you built from parts on Aliexpress and placed under your priceless oil paintings would fit the bill on that one. (But buy it from Amazon and they claim it has proper UL labels and the insurance company will happily cover you and sue Amazon.)
 
And you base this on what?

I've seen way too much shoddy equipment that is still somehow UL listed. I have not heard of someone's house burning down due to bad electrical that was done wrong by a homeowner and the insurance not paying for it. Half the crap wiring I've seen in a house was done many years before the current owners lived there (and sometimes it seems a miracle it didn't burn down a long time ago). Can you imagine your house burning down and your insurance refusing to pay because someone 20 years ago did something wrong and it was no fault of your own?
Insurance companies work in a pretty straight forward manor. If something happens and your a good customer for years and the payout is not huge then they may overlook certain things. If the Payout is huge or deaths, collateral fires to other houses etc are involved then the gloves come off and they will use all possible means to get off the hook.

You can be 100% sure that when the Fire Dept forensic team zeros in on the cause of the fire being a non compliant Inverter or an Inverter hooked up without proper installation and Inspection, the insurance company will bail on you almost instantly.

One thing that I have found to be very consistent about Insurance companies is that if you think of them in religious terms then the Sales Dept is Heaven. The nicest folks who answer the phone on the second ring and will give you some coffee and cookies while they finalize your policy.
The other Dept is Claims which is like Hell. They put you on Hold for eternity and then try to suck the life out of you before they will part with a dollar.
 
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