erik.calco
Solar Badger
Must of melted before being able to read the answers.
Hot environment suggestions
- Thread starter dorian
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Must of melted before being able to read the answers.
Frank in Thailand
making mistakes so you don't have to...
$ 2850 for 5000 BTU is indeed pricy.
Funny, they say "cheaper, compared to Freon air-conditioning" but I don't see the energy usage !!
Except for thermostat, who uses 10w.
It doesn't use any energy??
My Daikin SEER 23.76 use 550w for 8500 BTU, about 450 USD
Knowing Daikin brand, it will run atleast 10 years, more likely 15.
That's normal commercial available product.
I'm always for new invention, especially if it is significantly better.
How much energy do they use?
+Edit after reading some more.
They don't, as they don't "do anything"
You need to buy air compressor.
The compressed air is placed in a vortex that automatically makes a hot and cold section (physics)
" That's all folks"..
I do not know how noisy the air compressor in USA are, but here they are noisy!!
And use a lot of electricity.
It is idea for lower cooling range (500-2500 BTU), using peltier pads with ventilator is much much more energy efficient and cheaper!!
Or refrigerator?? Not that hard to change the thermostat to start at 20 Celcius..
Funny, they say "cheaper, compared to Freon air-conditioning" but I don't see the energy usage !!
Except for thermostat, who uses 10w.
It doesn't use any energy??
My Daikin SEER 23.76 use 550w for 8500 BTU, about 450 USD
Knowing Daikin brand, it will run atleast 10 years, more likely 15.
That's normal commercial available product.
I'm always for new invention, especially if it is significantly better.
How much energy do they use?
+Edit after reading some more.
They don't, as they don't "do anything"
You need to buy air compressor.
The compressed air is placed in a vortex that automatically makes a hot and cold section (physics)
" That's all folks"..
I do not know how noisy the air compressor in USA are, but here they are noisy!!
And use a lot of electricity.
It is idea for lower cooling range (500-2500 BTU), using peltier pads with ventilator is much much more energy efficient and cheaper!!
Or refrigerator?? Not that hard to change the thermostat to start at 20 Celcius..
Last edited:
Peltier would be quieter, but nowhere close to as efficient. Peltier is MASSIVELY energy hungry...
Frank in Thailand
making mistakes so you don't have to...
I'm aware peltier like to eat.
I have small air compressor.
Then it's running it uses about 500 watts and is loud!!
It is not sufficient to have enough pressurised air to do the 5000BTU fortex cooling.
550 watt gives me 8500 BTU.
If we talk about small location, low BTU like 500 - 1000, peltier might use more energy, but price wise...
So much more cheaper.
You can buy extra panels and batteries to compensate and still end up with more cash in your pocket.
Peltier is small.
You can place several small ones in cramped space.
Alternatively use refrigerator.
(The small camping type refrigerator ofen are peltier also)
Compress air to the pressure needed for the fortex cooling is not energy efficient.
As result, fortex is not efficient.
It does however have special feature, it can cool in small places.
An alternative that can do the same I know of is peltier pads.
Probably there are more.
Maybe even more energy efficient.
Cooling in small places, "heat" pipe solutions, many options.
Vortex cooling is one of the most expensive inefficient onces.
I have small air compressor.
Then it's running it uses about 500 watts and is loud!!
It is not sufficient to have enough pressurised air to do the 5000BTU fortex cooling.
550 watt gives me 8500 BTU.
If we talk about small location, low BTU like 500 - 1000, peltier might use more energy, but price wise...
So much more cheaper.
You can buy extra panels and batteries to compensate and still end up with more cash in your pocket.
Peltier is small.
You can place several small ones in cramped space.
Alternatively use refrigerator.
(The small camping type refrigerator ofen are peltier also)
Compress air to the pressure needed for the fortex cooling is not energy efficient.
As result, fortex is not efficient.
It does however have special feature, it can cool in small places.
An alternative that can do the same I know of is peltier pads.
Probably there are more.
Maybe even more energy efficient.
Cooling in small places, "heat" pipe solutions, many options.
Vortex cooling is one of the most expensive inefficient onces.
Well that sucks. I was excited about a small solution. Since my use case is a slide in truck camper everything must be small and efficient.
erik.calco
Solar Badger
The best air conditioners use a combination of things to optimize. I was watching a video series of someone trying to innovate a more efficient A/C. He referenced how German A/C's use two technologies together.
Peltier could have a small role without being the primary source. How efficient a particular method is is in part dependent on its inputs and environment, such as temperature differences and humidity, which greatly impacts evaporative cooling.
This is one of those areas that continues to evolve.
Peltier could have a small role without being the primary source. How efficient a particular method is is in part dependent on its inputs and environment, such as temperature differences and humidity, which greatly impacts evaporative cooling.
This is one of those areas that continues to evolve.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
Two innovations that I like are the inverter driven compresors and variable speed fans. Inverter driven compressors can be modulated and they do not need the start up Amps that regular compressors need. That makes them more energy efficient and ideal for homes running off batteries. Peltier has been around at least 50 years and i don't think it will become more efficient.
Frank in Thailand
making mistakes so you don't have to...
inverter driven compressors are indeed "new" innovation.
variable speed fans, are around for long, long time, at least 50 years.
While Peltier won't get more efficient, the usage will be!!
Computer cooling have moved a long way also, using heat-pipes, water cooling, and other more efficient ways to transport the heat from location that is difficult to cool to other ( larger) location.
Heat pipes really are innovation.
For this situation, small area that needs cooling => transport heat, a Peltier element with small cooling block and ventilator on one side, heat pipe radiator on the other (with or without ventilator) is en efficient way to get the heat out of a closed case with batteries during charging.
It doesn't have to cool all the time, and during charge the little energy the Peltier and ventilators will use, compared to the initial costs, i would say it is efficient and effective solution for cooling the batteries in this small space.
Preferably only ventilator can be enough, in hot environment you will need to use electricity to cool.
for the 1500 USD compared to this (way under) 100 USD solution, an additional panel to compensate for possible extra power consumption is not a bad trade-off
Heat pipes are about 1 usd per 10 cm, and transport heat efficient.
sadly they do require higher temperature ( 70 Celsius) then we like before it starts really working, that's why a Peltier element is needed.
Its copper, so it will conduct heat as copper.
Even without Peltier it will cool (or heat up, depending on other temperature)
For hot environments, where you like to have the batteries cooler then the outside temperature, you will need heat-exchanger.
Peltier, around for over 50 years, is cost effective, efficient, long lasting solution.
You might need to replace the elements and the ventilators every 5 years or so, even then, as it's simple maintenance...
Mex Rider
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2019
- Messages
- 290
My van roof was 130 outside and 112 inside at 5pm Monday past....metal heats in the sun. Mexico- Arizona border area
I am in Phoenix and the ambient temp here tops 120 F.
I am installing Anderson connectors for my battery pack and plan on taking them inside my air conditioned house furing the summer when I am not using them.
I will be installing a rooftop ventilation vent so the van shouldn't get much over ambient. But that is still too hot for the batteries.
My longer term plan is to move somewhere cooler.
I am installing Anderson connectors for my battery pack and plan on taking them inside my air conditioned house furing the summer when I am not using them.
I will be installing a rooftop ventilation vent so the van shouldn't get much over ambient. But that is still too hot for the batteries.
My longer term plan is to move somewhere cooler.
I used a Vortex cooler on an explosion proof (EX) electrical enclosure. Very expensive to run, but in that application choices were very limited.
Mex Rider
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2019
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I'm in the same situation 4 hours south of you. I measured 130f at the roof line of my van and also currently have the batteries in th e house but the only thing practical I can think of is a small fan blowing directly on the batteries. I am also seriously considering putting another layer of insulation in the ceiling even though I hate to lose the the extra inch of headroom. Keep me/us posted if you come up with something practical.
My van has the spray foam insulation and it definitely works. Much, much cooler inside when I enter the vehicle than my car. I still haven't installed the roof ventilator yet. I expect that should help.
One thing that does help is these window sun blockers. They aren't cheap, but the increase in heat when you pull them down is dramatic. They are custom made for your vehicle and they provide both privacy and sun blocking.
I bought a set for my van and my car. Very robust and high quality.
SunShades
High-End Quality Custom Sunshades. Roll-up Shades are made here in the USA and backed by a High-End-Motorsports® Lifetime Warranty for most applications. Popular Sunshades are store stocking and are ready for shipping or pick-up here at High-End Motorsports. One-of-a-kind, less common requests...
What part of Arizona are you? I plan on retiring to Sierra Vista in a couple of years. 4600 ft elevation makes a huge difference in the heat (about 20 degrees lower than Phoenix).
Mex Rider
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2019
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Puerto Peñasco México...in Arizona they call it Rocky Point
Mex Rider
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2019
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I made a set, they make a hugh difference, I also installed 2 MaxxAir ventilators, But since my batteries are not installed yet I don't know how much difference they will make. I put an inch of polyiso insulation in the ceiling but the metal roof supports introduce a lot of heat...and as you noted, when the van is not being used..ouch!My van has the spray foam insulation and it definitely works. Much, much cooler inside when I enter the vehicle than my car. I still haven't installed the roof ventilator yet. I expect that should help.
One thing that does help is these window sun blockers. They aren't cheap, but the increase in heat when you pull them down is dramatic. They are custom made for your vehicle and they provide both privacy and sun blocking.
I bought a set for my van and my car. Very robust and high quality.
SunShades
High-End Quality Custom Sunshades. Roll-up Shades are made here in the USA and backed by a High-End-Motorsports® Lifetime Warranty for most applications. Popular Sunshades are store stocking and are ready for shipping or pick-up here at High-End Motorsports. One-of-a-kind, less common requests...www.high-end-motorsports.com
The Victron Smartsolar I am using will output my programmed float voltage even if there is no battery. My plan is to use the SCC to power the fan even without the battery. This is still in the future. You may find it hard to believe, but my motivation to work on the van has flagged a bit this summer.
I know it well. My sister had a beach house a bit south east of town. It does get roasting hot there if you are not right on the water.
How are you guys weathering the pandemic?
Mex Rider
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2019
- Messages
- 290
The town has been under quarantine until August 1st, which has been very inconvenient for getting my mail up at Lukeville but has kept our case numbers very low, and since we have virtually no medical infrastructure, that's a good thing. Now the Arizona vacationers are descending in large number so I expect the cast numbers to increase dramatically, but fingers crossed. With solar panels I am hoping to be able to just let the fans run 24/7. Being an old guy, it has gotten tough to work on the van except early in the morning and from about 6-8 in the evening. The heat just drains my energy. When I am in the middle of something I'm only good for 3-4 hours before exhaustion sets in.
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