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Hot water in the cold?

Rednecktek

Rednecktek

Expert Newbie
Joined
Sep 8, 2021
Messages
7,529
Location
On a boat usually.
So I find myself heading back to camp in February where the highs are aaaaalllmmmoosstt up to freezing and down in the single digits F at night. I have learned over the years that my outdoor shower is great, but only for 3 seasons and winter isn't one of them.

Right now I've got a propane on demand, somewhere about 10k BTU mounted on the outside and it works great other than there is no way to insulate an on demand heater to prevent freezing overnight. Even if I were to build some sort of triple-thick-R900 box around it, it still needs to breathe to burn so gaping air holes.

I've tried leaving a trickle of water but that drains my slow-fill well overnight and about the time my pump is happy again it's dark out and everything inside has refrozen.

I've heard there is such a thing as an on-demand gas heater with electric freeze protection but my Google-Fu and Amazon-Hunt has failed me other than a few whole-home sized family of 12 units.

My other options seem to be either a used RV gas heater with a tank or an upright gas water heater and hope it doesn't freeze (that much thermal mass shouldn't, but I'll need a 1000lb tank to feed that 0.0006% efficiency burner). Sadly, even the little 12gal RV heaters are $600 and gas tank uprights are north of $1000 and start at 30 gallon.

Is there a special term for freeze protected on demand heaters that I'm looking for? Does anyone make a round upright gas water heater in the 10gal range for less than a kidney? What other options do I have for getting hot water outside?

Thanks y'all!
 
My off grid place has water 3 seasons and in the winter we use a zodi extreme unit for showers. Heated on a burner or woodstove. It actually works great. I think zodi is out of business but google it and you will see it’s basically a stainless steel yard sprayer with an on/off valve and shower head.
It’s simple and freeze proof. With navy showers we easily do 3 guys with the 3 gal tank and my wife and I easily even with her long hair. I go first and let her use the rest and there is always more than she needs.
 
FishHog said:
My off grid place has water 3 seasons and in the winter we use a zodi extreme unit for showers. Heated on a burner or woodstove. It actually works great. I think zodi is out of business but google it and you will see it’s basically a stainless steel yard sprayer with an on/off valve and shower head.
It’s simple and freeze proof. With navy showers we easily do 3 guys with the 3 gal tank and my wife and I easily even with her long hair. I go first and let her use the rest and there is always more than she needs.
Click to expand...
That's interesting, thanks!

Extreme Self-Contained Portable Hot Shower | A complete System with convenient Stove | Zodi.com

The Self-Contained Extreme SC™ Hot Shower is one of Zodi's most popular showers. The Zodi Extreme SC™ features stainless steel construction, metal hand pump and the convenient multi-purpose propane stove great for heating the extreme tank and perfect for cooking on.
zodi.com
 
I'm thinking I may have to bite the bullet and get a 12gal RV heater and build an insulated box for it. Sigh... hopefully I can findca used one locally for less than a kidney.
 
So bonus question, my dad may have a line on a free 40gal natural gas water heater for me from a recent friend's remodel changing to an on-demand. I know you can't just plug propane into a natural gas burner because of energy density and orifice size, but if the manufacturer doesn't sell an adapter kit, how would I go about changing that over? Do I look for a specific (insert special term here) donglebobber orifice or do I need to find something with a specific diameter hole or what's the trick?

Someone on here must have done it before, right?
 
Rednecktek, hold off on purchase, I just sent an email to Chofu Japan asking about their hokaido version on demand propane heaters. the cold weather version have something that stops them from freezing. thats what is on our cabin. once they reply back with model numbers I might be able to connect you to them to get one sent to you. (mine is older so its model number is worthless) and they have an engrish site as well so they might very well sell unit setup for US or EU.
 
They make interior direct vented propane ondemand heaters that use a bit of 120v power for the controls and digital thermostat. Most are also rated for useing with mixing valves. Amazon has them for $250-400. When I finaly get the plumbing all setup in my cabin il be useing one of these.

I'm not intrested in messing around with trying to rig up a water heater to make it not freeze and have a maintenance nightmare. We have prety minimal water at our place in the winter so something like a 30gal tank also wouldnt work. I plan to make all my plumbing have the ability to be blown out easily with compressed air.
 
Yeah the 10gal gas/electric RV ones are really pricey.. it works pretty well and holds heat pretty good, and would be better with a box to keep it warm. I have not seen any other real alternatives. Sorry.

I can get you pictures or other detail if you need them .. let me know
 
dopeassjackson said:
They make interior direct vented propane ondemand heaters that use a bit of 120v power for the controls and digital thermostat. Most are also rated for useing with mixing valves. Amazon has them for $250-400. When I finaly get the plumbing all setup in my cabin il be useing one of these.

I'm not intrested in messing around with trying to rig up a water heater to make it not freeze and have a maintenance nightmare. We have prety minimal water at our place in the winter so something like a 30gal tank also wouldnt work. I plan to make all my plumbing have the ability to be blown out easily with compressed air.
Click to expand...
we never have to do that here... they just burying the drain valves below grade far enough that its not an issue and all the pipes drain towards the drain valves (multiple) shut off water (4-6' deep on that valve with an extension above grade. open all taps, flush the toilet to empty the tank open other drain valves and let it drain out. no compressed air required. takes a little more effort on designing the system, but I have to drain my system everyweek before leaving and in 12+ years never once broke a pipe... a little septic safe antifreeze in the P traps and the toilet bowl and good to go.
 
Bought a 30gal Rheem propane water heater. I'll buikd an insulated house for it on the back side of the shower to keep it and all the pipes warm.

The water line is currently frozen so if I can get the dirt out of the way I'll hopefully get that built this weekend.
 
Most of the top of the line gas on demand heaters that I install have anti-freeze protection Viessmann, Navien, Lochinvar etc. won't help your pipes but the unit won't freeze as long as you have gas and power.
 
jgrobelny said:
Most of the top of the line gas on demand heaters that I install have anti-freeze protection Viessmann, Navien, Lochinvar etc. won't help your pipes but the unit won't freeze as long as you have gas and power.
Click to expand...
yeah here they have two models... south models and northern models. south units get bolted to the wal and forgotten, the northern ones get bolted to the wall, heat trace tapes on inlet and outlet pipes along with full insulation and auto drains that allow air to enter system anytime water pressure drops below xxx pressure. (to ensure proper draining when shutting water system down.)
 
They make diesel heaters for water too!

I was looking at the Aquano 5k hydronic model myself. The first incarnation I came across was the bobilvans heat exchanger setup. I saw a couple air+water heater combos as well. I’ve yet to try any of them out.

Currently im boiling a big pot of water on the stove as needed. Thankfully winter is almost over and I’ll be going back to my excel OD tankless setup soon.
 
Last edited:
Rednecktek said:
Rrriiigghhttt... let me just unthread all the water and gas pipes after every shower and take that in the house...
Click to expand...
Convert them to garden hose connections. Or garden hose quick connects. I take mine inside when I need a shower at our weekend cabin in the winter. I wouldnt bother trying to rig something up to keep it from freezing for the 3min it takes to remove it and bring it inside.
 
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