How do most people heat water with solar panels and batteries?

[CaliSunHarvester]

I paid $1.35/gal last fall. Cash price is $1.60/gal. They think summer fill will be at least $1.60/gal or higher.

how is that possible? I just paid $3.30 here in California, and that's with the benefit of a Propane user group. Supposedly others pay more.
The $15.99 hazmat fee is the same for everyone.

Oh wait. Per internet search:
"Additionally, California's environmental regulations, such as the Cap-and-Trade program, and proposed updates to the Low-Carbon Fuel Standard, can contribute to higher propane costs. "

 

[ScrodusGargleRotten]

I just paid $3.30 here in California

That explains everything

 

[PreciseD]

how is that possible? I just paid $3.30 here in California, and that's with the benefit of a Propane user group. Supposedly others pay more.
The $15.99 hazmat fee is the same for everyone.

Oh wait. Per internet search:
"Additionally, California's environmental regulations, such as the Cap-and-Trade program, and proposed updates to the Low-Carbon Fuel Standard, can contribute to higher propane costs. "

They must be in Iowa.. I just looked up the propane index and that is the only state in the low $1.60 range with Nebraska being in the high $1.70s...

 

[WorldwideDave]

They must be in Iowa.. I just looked up the propane index and that is the only state in the low $1.60 range with Nebraska being in the high $1.70s...

didn't know there was an index. I think on the small island I lived on for 15 years we paid around $3.00/gallon. Hurts when filling a 150 gallon tank, but that was every 18-24 months. Ran stove, hot water heater, dryer, and fireplace, and we got snow/cold often. Added a wood stove in the middle of the house to reduce heating costs - truckload of wood was $100, but you gotta buy in spring/early summer and let dry until you need it.

 

[Bill_A (aka Scat)]

I'm using a submersion heater, 1500W element with thermostat, and a 5 gallon bucket. Extension cord to inverter.

View attachment 281283View attachment 281284

Would you have a parts list for those items?
Thanks

 

[PreciseD]

didn't know there was an index. I think on the small island I lived on for 15 years we paid around $3.00/gallon. Hurts when filling a 150 gallon tank, but that was every 18-24 months. Ran stove, hot water heater, dryer, and fireplace, and we got snow/cold often. Added a wood stove in the middle of the house to reduce heating costs - truckload of wood was $100, but you gotta buy in spring/early summer and let dry until you need it.

I use this site to get the best price I can from my local propane supplier. I wish I had a 1000 gallon tank as I could get closer to wholesale fill rate which is much cheaper.

Residential Propane Weekly Heating Oil and Propane Prices

Wholesale Propane Weekly Heating Oil and Propane Prices

 

[Brucey]

Would you have a parts list for those items?
Thanks

Amazon.com

 

[WorldwideDave]

Amazon.com

Saw on the "Ambition Strikes" youtube channel they had a bluetooth or wifi connection to their propane tank - is that now a thing? In their example, they could set alerts to see when to order to refill before winter, when rates went up. I know setting a calendar appointment can do that, but they had a smaller tank and use a lot of it I guess.

 

[Brucey]

Saw on the "Ambition Strikes" youtube channel they had a bluetooth or wifi connection to their propane tank - is that now a thing? In their example, they could set alerts to see when to order to refill before winter, when rates went up. I know setting a calendar appointment can do that, but they had a smaller tank and use a lot of it I guess.

Yes I think @sunshine_eggo has a weight based one for his tanks.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Yes I think @sunshine_eggo has a weight based one for his tanks.

ultrasonic height sensing. Mounts to bottom of tank, pulses and can sense liquid height.

Amazon.com

Have a RPi on VRM monitoring it and a Ruuvi temp sensor:

Amazon.com

Badgerton LPG VRM:

VRM Portal - Victron Energy

VRM by Victron Energy gives realtime insights into your energy. Monitor complete energy systems, tanks and temperatures remotely.

vrm.victronenergy.com

Only complaint is it regularly shows 100% when at reduced level. When it drops to where I care, it stops. It correlates very well with the tank gauge, and the amount added at the last fill.



Probably installation related, or the tank level mechanism is interfering .

@Adam De Lay has a video about his experience with his 500 gal tank. Seems to be very happy with it, but that F*ck3r is happy about everything.

 

[WorldwideDave]

ultrasonic height sensing. Mounts to bottom of tank, pulses and can sense liquid height.

Amazon.com

Have a RPi on VRM monitoring it and a Ruuvi temp sensor:

Amazon.com

Badgerton LPG VRM:

VRM Portal - Victron Energy

VRM by Victron Energy gives realtime insights into your energy. Monitor complete energy systems, tanks and temperatures remotely.

vrm.victronenergy.com

Only complaint is it regularly shows 100% when at reduced level. When it drops to where I care, it stops. It correlates very well with the tank gauge, and the amount added at the last fill.

what can you do to make this more accurate? Will be adding another 'tank' monitor on an RV soon for propane, but I guess they make them for black/grey water tanks too, like boats and RVs typically have.

 

[Chicat]

We use an 18 gallon electric that uses 1500 W for about an hour in the summer 1:45 in the winter to heat up. It is only for the bathroom, so we plan ahead to turn it on. We used to live in an RV so 18 gallons is a lot more than we are used to. Just the 2 of us, and no kids

 

[wattmatters]

We've moved home.

The new place has an existing solar thermal water heater (400 litre / 106 US gallons), with an electric element booster located half way up the tank. The electric boost is used occasionally and draws from a dedicated off-peak grid energy supply. I expect it'll cost about $50/year in boosting.

Unit is 13 years old and I doubt the former owners did any servicing. I just changed out the TPR valve but the plumber would not attempt to remove the anode for check/replacement - the tank looks as though it could be a bit dodgy, which is a shame. It is working though so will let it live out it's useful life then make a call on what to replace it with.

At our last home, we had the electric water heater with solar PV diverter I described earlier plus the second dwelling has a continual flow bottled propane water heater. It was occupied by a young couple and cost about A$800 per year to operate (which we covered). That was ridiculous given the water heater for our home was costing about $25/year to run.

If we'd have stayed there I'd have changed that gas unit out for a smaller 180 litre (48 US gallon) heat pump unit and run that during peak solar hours. It would have cost abut $10/year to run and paid for itself in three years.

 

[wattmatters]

what can you do to make this more accurate?

Weigh the tank. The problem with using electronic sensors near gas tanks is ensuring no chance of causing a spark. Depending on where you are there may be regulations covering this.

 

[WorldwideDave]

If we'd have stayed there I'd have changed that gas unit out for a smaller 180 litre (48 US gallon) heat pump unit and run that during peak solar hours. It would have cost abut $10/year to run and paid for itself in three years.

I guess they cost more in the USA? $1700 USD is a lot. Can't see how you would pay that off at $10/year to run. Are you suggesting when compared to what you were paying for your renters to use it at 800/year?

 

[wattmatters]

I guess they cost more in the USA? $1700 USD is a lot. Can't see how you would pay that off at $10/year to run. Are you suggesting when compared to what you were paying for your renters to use it at 800/year?

Yes, if I paid A$2,400 (say) to install a small heat pump water heater costing $10/year to run, and it replaced a water heater costing $800+ per year to run, then I'd be ahead after about three years.

 

[WorldwideDave]

Yes, if I paid A$2,400 (say) to install a small heat pump water heater costing $10/year to run, and it replaced a water heater costing $800+ per year to run, then I'd be ahead after about three years.

Thank you I now understand.

 

[ekrainey]

I paid $1400 for the heat pump water heater. I get a 30% tax credit so it drops the price to $980. The electricity to run it comes from my solar system. How long does it take to get my $980 back?

i run 2 of these same tax credit, plus 500 rebate each from electric company and they sip electricity running 5 baths and 2 washing machines, they will never pay off on solar but will help cut storage size. on the grid i bet im saving upwards of 400 year each

 

[onrbikes]

I built a mud brick house here in West Australia and built a thermosyphoning HW system.
Solar panels hooked up to a 100l tank.
A soon as the sun hits the water moves. I draw hot water from the top of the tank and water comes in the bottom from a header tank. There's a shepherds hook to stop it over flowing.
In winter or a few cloudy days a small wood heater has a wetback that also feeds the water to the tank. Can also cook on the heater
No electricity, only a bit of firewood.
Been going for 25 years now.
The house is solar passive.
Warm in winter and cool in summer.
ATM it's 10C outside. Does are open and inside is 25C.

 

[miran90]

I turned water heater on batteries since october

 

[hybe022]

excess solar goes into my multiple cheap submersible heaters dumped in a big ass bucket

 

[WorldwideDave]

excess solar goes into my multiple cheap submersible heaters dumped in a big ass bucket

I think @BarracudaBob does similar.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

what can you do to make this more accurate? Will be adding another 'tank' monitor on an RV soon for propane, but I guess they make them for black/grey water tanks too, like boats and RVs typically have.

It is accurate. The 100% anomaly is likely due to sensor position and/or too little grease on the sensor, or the tank's own float causing a false reading. When you look at the daily plot, there is a time-of day (temperature) trend as well. Again, I don't really care about the tank level until it's empty, The problem disappears below about 60%:



And on any given day, I have more time with accurate readings than not on VRM:



Note that the fluctuations are temperature related. Level changes with change in temps. Tank gauges are only considered accurate when at 60°F.

 

[Zwy]

They must be in Iowa.. I just looked up the propane index and that is the only state in the low $1.60 range with Nebraska being in the high $1.70s...

Local coop here in Timbuktu, Iowa. I have purchased fuel there for over 35 years. I also prepay for some every year.

If it is getting higher everywhere else, then it might go up here. Large propane pipeline comes thru here with loading terminals so we do have an advantage on pricing.

With propane and natural gas prices rising, it makes a heat pump water heater a very quick return of the costs.

 

[Zwy]

Saw on the "Ambition Strikes" youtube channel they had a bluetooth or wifi connection to their propane tank - is that now a thing? In their example, they could set alerts to see when to order to refill before winter, when rates went up. I know setting a calendar appointment can do that, but they had a smaller tank and use a lot of it I guess.

I just look at where the ice forms on the sides of the tank when the snow melts or we have a foggy damp day. The water will refreeze at the level where there is liquid. Works on diesel and gasoline tanks too. No need for any fancy sensors that can fail.

I have enough tanks where I can fill during summer fill and be able to make it completely thru winter in the house and shop unless we get 4 weeks of -20°F weather. I can cover that by just prepaying for a few hundred gallons. With using heat pumps primarily in the house for heat until mid December and starting again end of January, I have an extra 500 gallon full tank for the house which hasn't been tapped in 2 years now.