How to get solar when you can't afford it
- Thread starter svetz
- Start date
Good calculation
But but but
South facing windows are net heat gainers in the winter(at least in my area) , so instead of losing money they actually save me money ,?
I'm in full support of being outside but in texas if you remove the days when it's too cold, and the days when it's too hot, and the days with high pollen count and mosquitoes, you have 2 good days a year to spend outdoors ?
Ive known people who wanted to build a windowless house to save money but to me the single most important defining characteristic of a good house is good daylighting
JeepHammer
Solar Wizard
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2019
- Messages
- 1,149
Back to "Basement/Earth Sheltered CAN'T HAVE WINDOWS" tantrums...
You just have to ask the thick-heads which way they want it, too many windows or no windows...
I need a program to keep up...
Passive solar IS SOLAR.
Thermal solar IS SOLAR.
It's right there in the name....
You just have to ask the thick-heads which way they want it, too many windows or no windows...
I need a program to keep up...
Passive solar IS SOLAR.
Thermal solar IS SOLAR.
It's right there in the name....
pablo131
New Member
It is Dame Shirley not plain Sheryl
12VoltInstalls
life passes by too quickly to not live in freedom
Colloquially, this site is assumed to be about photovoltaic systems.
In some of Will’s vids in sunny LV he does merely lay panels on the ground. That’s not to assume they are thermally powered - just passively mounted.
BuffaloTrace
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2020
- Messages
- 413
I'm waiting for Svetz recap on the thread of how to get "solar when you can't afford it".
Everyone's in a different situation, but at this point, PV can be had with little money and relatively quick return. I've seen small systems mentioned as having the worst return, but a small system can be had for next to nothing assuming the level of diy usually associated with such systems.
I've come across countless individual used and new panels that have basically been leftover from other systems, and getting creative from a diy standpoint.
Lathes and mills used to be expensive and extremely expensive new, but when CNC machines came out, people switched to those. Now, if you have the means to move them, even the Gen 1 cnc machines can be had for pennies on the dollar compared to the new ones.
Everyone's in a different situation, but at this point, PV can be had with little money and relatively quick return. I've seen small systems mentioned as having the worst return, but a small system can be had for next to nothing assuming the level of diy usually associated with such systems.
I've come across countless individual used and new panels that have basically been leftover from other systems, and getting creative from a diy standpoint.
Lathes and mills used to be expensive and extremely expensive new, but when CNC machines came out, people switched to those. Now, if you have the means to move them, even the Gen 1 cnc machines can be had for pennies on the dollar compared to the new ones.
JeepHammer
Solar Wizard
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2019
- Messages
- 1,149
"Cheap Solar"... Stand in the sun.
Ted Cruz says CO2 is good for plants, but I think he's more poison ivy than strawberry... If you see him while standing in the sun, move away...
For those of us older than smart phones, 'Passive Solar' was graphically (and painfully) demonstrated when we jumped in a car with vinyl seats that sat in the sun.
How vinyl can be hotter than lava, I can't answer, but a kid in shorts know this to be true.
Passive solar was demonstrated by shade trees thst lost leaves in the winter to regulate sun on the home, porches that let low winter sun in the home, blocked high summer sun.
Awnings over windows were also common... Way before electric powered HVAC ruled people's lives.
It's not really that hard to grasp... But SOME people 'Think' it doesn't work anymore...
I use the term 'Think' sarcastically here since it's obvious they don't/can't think for themselves...
The idea 'Solar' has to be PV is beyond me... Probably the 'Idiot Proof' generations that never lived without forced heat and air conditioning, never know a room that didn't have light switches, never rode bicycles miles to work, they were status symbols and toys, not work tools...
I've seen where people cut the top & bottom out of aluminum cans, stacked them up, painted them black, collected the heat as it rose up the 'Tube' of cans.
First time I saw this it was in a supposedly 3rd world country that everyone in the U.S. turned their noses up at, but it was pure genius to heat a home with exactly zero cost since it was all 'Trash here...
Pallet wood + cans = daytime heat and combustible material (wood) savings. Pure genius.
I used a black plastic barrel on top my outhouse to heat water, gravity did the 'Running' part so I could wash.
In the 60's, the neighbors had black plastic water pipe in loose coils on the barn roof, and they had greenhouses with big water tanks...
You use a lot of water in greenhouses...
Available water and heat.
I now know that was heat banking in the water tanks to keep the greenhouses warm at night.
I used the same idea when I built my greenhouse in the 90s.
It still works today despite what people tell you...
Green Houses... The small version is a Hot Frame or Hot Box, an old window on a wooden or plastic box. I use both every year to start plants before winter gives up.
Open it up a little to vent it when it gets TOO warm. Venting since heat rises in earth's atmosphere... Not a hard concept to grasp how solar can be used.
When I got disabled, had ZERO money, no 'Home' (living in a tent, using an outhouse)
And absloutely HAD to generate an income to pay taxes... No one cares about disabled veterans no matter what they say...
My first 'Greenhouse' was scrub saplings arched (free), clear plastic wrap around the outside (cheap/free), and that plastic wrap lasted 3 years.
A warm place to sit and do my phsyical therapy on cold days, passive solar thermal... It still works despite what you'll hear from so called 'Experts'.
Those really tall double hung windows in old homes could be opened at the top to remove heat collected in the room well before fan forced ventlation... You get a draft started WITHOUT fan forced ventilation. It still works...
A standing vent pipe will have 'Draw' year around, and like in a root cellar, you provide earth cooled air (pipes) the vent will provide the power to draw in that cooler air.
Chimnies with 'Dampers' can be your topside vent pipe to get the 'Draw' working.
Do that in the home, vent topside, draw from basement, sistern or root cellar, you get cool air in the home. No fan forced ventilation at all...
EXACTLY 100% ENERGY EFFICENCY since it took exactly ZERO outside energy to do...
I'd like to see the ZERO outside energy, 100% efficient systems from the HVAC guys...
Want to do solar electric (Photo Voltaic), for $1 to $5 you can buy a PV powered pathway/sidewalk/patio LED light at the dollar store.
There is a solar panel, storage, control circuit, and light (electrical load). Usually a light sensitive switch to turn it On/Off.
I still use them on the chicken house, a staple or eye bolt on the side of the chicken house leaves them outside to charge, at night they light up the chicken house to help with the predator situation, and if you are going in, just take one with you, it turns on by itself... Light where you need it, when you need it...
1$ to $5 light is your 'Learning' platform. There is economy in scale, so once you learn, scale up.
"No Money"... There is this concept of 'Work', doing something constructive for money or goods... YOU trade labor for materials or money.
Without sarcasm, I have met people that do not understand this concept.
As for PV, I scrounge panels wherever I could. From highway road signs people hit, carcass sold at auction. Panels, batteries, charge controller, and often a trailer.
I scrounged the panels off government buildings with political parties changed. I figure my tax dollars paid full retail (plus) for the panels, the install, the removal, so I didn't feel one bit bad about offering little to nothing for hauling the 'Scrap' off. Even got paid a few times.
Batteries started as automotive, went to big industral (steel case) as I learned about batteries and what an actual deep cycle battery was, and what Amp Hours it took to actually run something constructive.
When a steel case won't do a full shift in an underground mine or on a fork truck, it's 'Scrap', and I bought it for scrap weight. When I was done with it, I sold it for scrap weight.
Sometimes brand new batteries get damaged, I figured out how to repair and use them for my specific application. Bonus kWh included in that 'Scrap Price'.
Dead cell? Cut the connecting bridges and jump it.
Melted terminals? Drill a hole and install a stud.
Broken bridge between cells? Drill two holes and connect a cable.
Won't pass for 'New', but it provides a BUNCH of kWh for my system, Cheap to free.
Now that I have some dollars to spend I don't fool with lead/acid anymore, but if your budget is small they are still out there in the millions... for 3 to 4 cents a pound.
Ted Cruz says CO2 is good for plants, but I think he's more poison ivy than strawberry... If you see him while standing in the sun, move away...
For those of us older than smart phones, 'Passive Solar' was graphically (and painfully) demonstrated when we jumped in a car with vinyl seats that sat in the sun.
How vinyl can be hotter than lava, I can't answer, but a kid in shorts know this to be true.
Passive solar was demonstrated by shade trees thst lost leaves in the winter to regulate sun on the home, porches that let low winter sun in the home, blocked high summer sun.
Awnings over windows were also common... Way before electric powered HVAC ruled people's lives.
It's not really that hard to grasp... But SOME people 'Think' it doesn't work anymore...
I use the term 'Think' sarcastically here since it's obvious they don't/can't think for themselves...
The idea 'Solar' has to be PV is beyond me... Probably the 'Idiot Proof' generations that never lived without forced heat and air conditioning, never know a room that didn't have light switches, never rode bicycles miles to work, they were status symbols and toys, not work tools...
I've seen where people cut the top & bottom out of aluminum cans, stacked them up, painted them black, collected the heat as it rose up the 'Tube' of cans.
First time I saw this it was in a supposedly 3rd world country that everyone in the U.S. turned their noses up at, but it was pure genius to heat a home with exactly zero cost since it was all 'Trash here...
Pallet wood + cans = daytime heat and combustible material (wood) savings. Pure genius.
I used a black plastic barrel on top my outhouse to heat water, gravity did the 'Running' part so I could wash.
In the 60's, the neighbors had black plastic water pipe in loose coils on the barn roof, and they had greenhouses with big water tanks...
You use a lot of water in greenhouses...
Available water and heat.
I now know that was heat banking in the water tanks to keep the greenhouses warm at night.
I used the same idea when I built my greenhouse in the 90s.
It still works today despite what people tell you...
Green Houses... The small version is a Hot Frame or Hot Box, an old window on a wooden or plastic box. I use both every year to start plants before winter gives up.
Open it up a little to vent it when it gets TOO warm. Venting since heat rises in earth's atmosphere... Not a hard concept to grasp how solar can be used.
When I got disabled, had ZERO money, no 'Home' (living in a tent, using an outhouse)
And absloutely HAD to generate an income to pay taxes... No one cares about disabled veterans no matter what they say...
My first 'Greenhouse' was scrub saplings arched (free), clear plastic wrap around the outside (cheap/free), and that plastic wrap lasted 3 years.
A warm place to sit and do my phsyical therapy on cold days, passive solar thermal... It still works despite what you'll hear from so called 'Experts'.
Those really tall double hung windows in old homes could be opened at the top to remove heat collected in the room well before fan forced ventlation... You get a draft started WITHOUT fan forced ventilation. It still works...
A standing vent pipe will have 'Draw' year around, and like in a root cellar, you provide earth cooled air (pipes) the vent will provide the power to draw in that cooler air.
Chimnies with 'Dampers' can be your topside vent pipe to get the 'Draw' working.
Do that in the home, vent topside, draw from basement, sistern or root cellar, you get cool air in the home. No fan forced ventilation at all...
EXACTLY 100% ENERGY EFFICENCY since it took exactly ZERO outside energy to do...
I'd like to see the ZERO outside energy, 100% efficient systems from the HVAC guys...
Want to do solar electric (Photo Voltaic), for $1 to $5 you can buy a PV powered pathway/sidewalk/patio LED light at the dollar store.
There is a solar panel, storage, control circuit, and light (electrical load). Usually a light sensitive switch to turn it On/Off.
I still use them on the chicken house, a staple or eye bolt on the side of the chicken house leaves them outside to charge, at night they light up the chicken house to help with the predator situation, and if you are going in, just take one with you, it turns on by itself... Light where you need it, when you need it...
1$ to $5 light is your 'Learning' platform. There is economy in scale, so once you learn, scale up.
"No Money"... There is this concept of 'Work', doing something constructive for money or goods... YOU trade labor for materials or money.
Without sarcasm, I have met people that do not understand this concept.
As for PV, I scrounge panels wherever I could. From highway road signs people hit, carcass sold at auction. Panels, batteries, charge controller, and often a trailer.
I scrounged the panels off government buildings with political parties changed. I figure my tax dollars paid full retail (plus) for the panels, the install, the removal, so I didn't feel one bit bad about offering little to nothing for hauling the 'Scrap' off. Even got paid a few times.
Batteries started as automotive, went to big industral (steel case) as I learned about batteries and what an actual deep cycle battery was, and what Amp Hours it took to actually run something constructive.
When a steel case won't do a full shift in an underground mine or on a fork truck, it's 'Scrap', and I bought it for scrap weight. When I was done with it, I sold it for scrap weight.
Sometimes brand new batteries get damaged, I figured out how to repair and use them for my specific application. Bonus kWh included in that 'Scrap Price'.
Dead cell? Cut the connecting bridges and jump it.
Melted terminals? Drill a hole and install a stud.
Broken bridge between cells? Drill two holes and connect a cable.
Won't pass for 'New', but it provides a BUNCH of kWh for my system, Cheap to free.
Now that I have some dollars to spend I don't fool with lead/acid anymore, but if your budget is small they are still out there in the millions... for 3 to 4 cents a pound.
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JeepHammer
Solar Wizard
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2019
- Messages
- 1,149
Another 'Scrounger' low dollar way to do things...
Brand new in box 56 VDC, 7.5 Ah Lithium-Ion batteries for lawn mowers, lost freight auction, approximately 56 on a pallet/12 pallets sold recently (last saturday) for $42 a pallet at public auction is all they could get.
7.5 Ah X 56 = 420 Ah per pallet.
420 Ah X 12 pallets = 5,040 Ah total for $504 USD.
At 56 VDC, it's about perfect for a "48 Volt" system base.
I can't be at every sale, I missed the sale.
I was riding plastic barbie cars and red wagons down a big hill with my idiot friends... (alcohol involved)
Just showing not having a bunch of money to blow means it has to limit what you get done.
Now, with a little education/ability to determine if the batteries have a BMS built in, or the charger does those duties, and you could have one heck of a lot of storage for cheap.
LOTS of cheap lithium-ion BMS/chargers out there, both grid and solar.
LOTS of FREE information on sizing, connecting those BMS units correctly, wiring the batteries En Banc.
The savings on the storage frees up a LOT of money on control & charging equipment!
Brand new in box 56 VDC, 7.5 Ah Lithium-Ion batteries for lawn mowers, lost freight auction, approximately 56 on a pallet/12 pallets sold recently (last saturday) for $42 a pallet at public auction is all they could get.
7.5 Ah X 56 = 420 Ah per pallet.
420 Ah X 12 pallets = 5,040 Ah total for $504 USD.
At 56 VDC, it's about perfect for a "48 Volt" system base.
I can't be at every sale, I missed the sale.
I was riding plastic barbie cars and red wagons down a big hill with my idiot friends... (alcohol involved)
Just showing not having a bunch of money to blow means it has to limit what you get done.
Now, with a little education/ability to determine if the batteries have a BMS built in, or the charger does those duties, and you could have one heck of a lot of storage for cheap.
LOTS of cheap lithium-ion BMS/chargers out there, both grid and solar.
LOTS of FREE information on sizing, connecting those BMS units correctly, wiring the batteries En Banc.
The savings on the storage frees up a LOT of money on control & charging equipment!
Last edited:
