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How will we pay for road maintenance if everyone has an EV and no-one pays gas taxes any more?

Steve_S said:
As Theo above pointed out the Netherlands has a very "Equitable" system based on GVW & Fuel type.
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What I really don't like about that is it is a fee per vehicle owned, completely unrelated to miles driven and wear on the road.
It could be promoted by "car share" companies, since 5 families taking turns driving one car would pay a fraction of what I do owning 5 vehicles.
I pay $hundreds extra due to weight rating of my pickup, even if only driven 1000 miles.

I like road paid for by gas tax because heavier gas consumers would be more wear on the roads.
Tire tax could do the same but smaller volume product, easier to smuggle around.
I figure for now EV circumventing the taxes is OK because they will cause less wear (more efficient, less energy per mile) and cleaner air is promoted.
 
45North said:
Hmmm. Now that you mention it, I already have to report my mileage every year when I renew my plates. Do you suppose they're building up a file on my usage in preparation for charging me? Just gathering general statistics on road usage? Or just generally being nosy? If it was based on a self-reported "honor" system, they would still need some way of spot checking or otherwise verifying.

If we paid once a year for mileage driven in the whole year that would be hundreds or thousands of dollars all at once! Imagine the outcry. It would be like having a new Income Tax!
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They don't need an honor system. Your vehicles mileage is verified every time it gets smogged or inspected. Which here in California, is every 2 years.
 
The Federal gas tax hasn't been raised since 1993, so because of inflation, it's not enough to cover road maintenance. In most states, it covers less than 50% of costs, in many states it's less than 1/3, and in Alaska it covers only 6.9%: https://taxfoundation.org/states-road-funding-2019/ So the truth is that cars, gas or electric, don't really pay for road maintenance. In states where they've implemented special EV fees, EVs are probably paying even more than gas cars for road maintenance.
The fairest way to fix this problem is to implement a per mile fee that's adjusted for the weight of the vehicle. Most of the damage is probably done by trucks hauling cargo, but can you imagine how politically unpopular it would be to tell big corporations that their trucks need to pay their fair share of road maintenance? And that's how the rest of us gets stuck with their tax bill. The notion of EVs not paying for road maintenance, while having an ounce of truth, is really a huge distraction from the real root cause of the issue.
 
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Lt.Dan said:
They don't need an honor system. Your vehicles mileage is verified every time it gets smogged or inspected. Which here in California, is every 2 years.
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So if I take a road trip across America, paying the gas tax (or SuperCharger tax?) along the way as I go, I'll pay a second mileage tax to California after I return?

Fast Pass could be another approach. With GPS logging miles on road/bridges of different maintenance cost. Could even implement a spot market to dynamically set pricing. It could also issue speeding tickets and revoke your license on the fly, like in one Bruce Willis movie.
 
Oh trust me, I already pay a ridiculous weight fee when I pay the registration on both trucks I own. I have a 1996 F350 and my registration is $350/year. My 2018 F350 is $1700!!!!!!

In other states I've looked at, my 1996 will cost less than $10/year... and they wonder why people are leaving Commiefornia...
 
EEnginerd said:
The gas tax hasn't been raised since 1993, so because of inflation, it's not enough to cover road maintenance. In most states, it covers less than 50% of costs, in many states it's less than 1/3, and in Alaska it covers only 6.9%: https://taxfoundation.org/states-road-funding-2019/ So the truth is that cars, gas or electric, don't really pay for road maintenance. In states where they've implemented special EV fees, EVs are probably paying even more than gas cars for road maintenance.
The fairest way to fix this problem is to implement a per mile fee that's adjusted for the weight of the vehicle. Most of the damage is probably done by trucks hauling cargo, but can you imagine how politically unpopular it would be to tell big corporations that their trucks need to pay their fair share of road maintenance? And that's how the rest of us gets stuck with their tax bill.
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The wear on roadways is an exponential function (4th power?) of vehicle weight. Those large trucks pay more taxes because they cause much more wear to the roadbeds. As for “fairness”, good luck with that. Several states have started to hit BEV owners with an annual assessment to cover some notional lost revenue from not buying gasoline. Never fear, they will find a way to get their money.
 
The other alternative and SOME OF YOU may have these now or had in the past. TOLL ROADS & TOLL BRIDGES. If you use it then pay for it, else don't. I hated those but if that's what it comes down to... not the best solution but it will likely pop up now & then over the next few years.
 
Or let the income tax or sales taxes pay for the roads. Those that profit and consume more can pay more toward this critical part of the economy.
 
Software licensing fees

www.bloomberg.com

Your Car Is About To Be a Software Platform, Subscriptions and All

The auto industry has finally caught up with Tesla’s over-the-air upgrades and it’s ready to flex.
www.bloomberg.com www.bloomberg.com

"You have not enabled roaming outside of your coverage area. Your battery will shut down in one hour. Creating a battery bypass is a violation of the Infrastructure Funding Act. Would you like to enable roaming? A $400.00 annual charge will be debited from the card of your choice.


Another option: insurance surcharges, justified after a few highly publicized accidents involving car battery fires.
 
The thinking that there has to be some kind of reciprocal tax for every service rendered is born out of the rediculous idea that government should be run like a business. When put into the context of how much economic impact certain infrastructure improvements can deliver, spending to build and maintain roads and bridges seems like a bargain even if the government does not collect an equal amount of dedicated taxes to pay for it.
 
45North said:
In many countries around the world the cost of road infrastructure construction and maintenance is funded by large taxes at the gas pump. (As the oil companies love to point out!)

If more and more people switch to EV's in the future where is this money going to come from?

Many governments are offering financial incentives for the purchase of EV's. Many EV's are charged overnight at favorable electricity rates.

Are we heading for a crunch or am I missing something?
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In Ohio I pay over $200 plus plates cost to replace paying tax per gallon at the pump. Don't worry governments are experts at taxing the working man.
 
time2roll said:
Or let the income tax or sales taxes pay for the roads. Those that profit and consume more can pay more toward this critical part of the economy.
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That's already how we do it today, because gas taxes are not even close to enough for paying for our roads.
 
Fuel taxes and weight fees used to cover the costs to maintain and build roadways excluding major infrastructure expansion. Then states assigned these taxes/fees collected to the general coffers. They stated that the surplus money needed to be assigned/used for other activities now. As the infrastructure needed to be maintained and/or new enhancements implemented, the government would allocate the required funds and more as needed. That didn’t always happened. Case in point, in California the 101, 680, and 580 freeway needed major improvements but the pot of money including all the fuel taxes, etc. was allocated for other expenditures. Solution was a to enact multiple sales tax hikes (measures A, B. etc.). Fast forward to today, and they still do these types of measures but are looking for additional income from vehicle users. Hiking local sales taxes on fuels, evaluation of use via GPS milage tracking, reporting mileage at time of renewal, etc. I haven’t seen anything documented states moving purely to a direct mileage use tax but there are studies being done to do so. So for now EVs for the most part are not paying any road taxes collected via the road fuel taxes or higher sales taxes at the pump since they don’t need the pump. I would expect governments will implement a mileage use tax to include them in paying their fair share of using the roadways. The real question will be if the mileage tax will be only on EVs or all vehicles? My bet is on all vehicles. After all, there’s never enough tax monies in the government piggy bank!
 
In Kansas (at least I think it was Kansas) they started charging a toll on I-70 (main east/west hwy) a few years back to pay for maintenance costs. Not sure if that's still a federal hwy or not, always thought it odd the state could toll a federal road.
 
Here in Charlotte, they converted all the local highway HOV lanes into toll roads, then they reworked the main highway routes into toll roads, they are now reworking the outer loop to contain toll lanes...
it’s a mix of interstate and state highways here.
 
Lt.Dan said:
They don't need an honor system. Your vehicles mileage is verified every time it gets smogged or inspected. Which here in California, is every 2 years.
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But that's California.
Here in New Mexico, if they introduced a state wide emissions or safety check you would take at least 50% of the vehicles off the road overnight. :ROFLMAO:
 
NMNeil said:
But that's California.
Here in New Mexico, if they introduced a state wide emissions or safety check you would take at least 50% of the vehicles off the road overnight. :ROFLMAO:
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CA went through this in the mid 1980s. The air quality improved significantly. Still lots of room for improvement to be gained from the fast selling EVs.
 
Burke said:
We couldn't possibly generate enough electricity in the US to power 100% electric vehicles, not even close... Would need massive Fusion, or orbital Solar arrays to supply that much power.
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Takes about 10kWh/day (60 cents/day at my cost of grid power)to power the average EV, that is roughly 2kW of solar panels on your roof. Nothing massive needed. Switch will happen over decades, might be a total required increase in installed generation capacity in the US of 40%. Hardly calls for fusion or orbital solar arrays.
 
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