How Would You Outfit This Camper?

[hour]

Been out of the game and unmotivated for a while since I moved from sunny Colorado to the east coast. Fed up with life and how much I've stagnated being here so I just purchased this thing yesterday. Haven't picked up yet and specs aren't well documented on the camper mfg's website. Here's what I do know from either mfg or pausing youtube walkthrough videos:

2024 No Boundaries 19.6 25ft with Beast Suspension Package
(Tow vehicle: 2022 F250 King Ranch Tremor)
- 2 x 200w panels from factory
- Some doodoo 30 amp GoPower PWM charger (likely GP-SB-PWM-30BT)
- 2000w pure sine wave inverter (WFCO WF5220)
- WFCO Lead/Lithium Auto-detect converter/charger (read bad things from people a few years ago about lithium mode not charging to full, maybe fixed by now)
- Roof tracks and cross bars to install other stuff, more panels in my case



And the roof layout I can expect:



With that out of the way...

These are assuredly GoPower 12v panels wired in parallel. Could be one of two 200w panel flavors they have:

20.8V Amp / 9.62A Imp / 24.3A Voc / 10.09A Isc OR
19.11V Amp / 9.65A Imp / 22.78 Voc / 9.32A Isc

Battery:
There are a few 200ah LFP batteries on the market that fit on the tongue if I install a dual group 24 battery box. That's about all I can do up there with curve of the camper and frame rails. I'm OK with that. Alternatively, I could fuss with bringing batteries inside and beneath the bed or in to the storage passthru and go with more capacity. Kind of sounds like a pain in the peen. In any event, I would like to stay 12v and understand the tradeoffs.

Charge controller: I don't want that GoPower thing at all even know it can handle lithium. I am too married to Victron and have several 12v charge controllers just collecting dust. 75/15 SmartSolar x 2, 100|30, 150|45. Perplexingly, the existing roof gland is at the front of the camper. The existing charge controller is at the bathroom in the rear of camper. The batteries are up front. Make it make sense lol. It's probably all 8 gauge wire.
Someone did post a video on YT that gave me an idea though. He disconnected the battery from the charge controller (front of trailer there's some wires you can expose in the underbelly) and then joined the solar input wires and old battery wires. That's his new solar input wire, but i'd really want to bump up my voltage to keep that same 8 gauge wire while pushing more power.

Solar upgrades:
I want to max out the space I'll be afforded by the existing tracks and cross rails so I'll play around with panel selections later, but I cannot wrap my head around what to do to avoid drilling the roof for another entry gland.

With the air conditioning position I believe I'm kind of screwed on doing anything to change the front two panels from parallel. I have so much Victron gear from my glory days that I'd like to reuse, but it's of little use if I just add more panels in parallel. Not to mention the current I'd be pushing through the wires. SOOO what would you do?

Charger/converter: whether WFCO fixed the dog crap charging profile for lithium they evidently had years ago or not, I'll rarely be plugged in to grid power. I'll consider that a wash unless I can remove it from the equation all together with a multiplus or something.

Existing 2000w inverter: This inverter has an AC passthru and only powers the outlets. It does not deal with the 15kbtu AC. I assume there's some wires that are currently separated behind the fuse panel to do this, since plugging in to grid will do the inverter passthru and bring the AC to life. Maybe in the future I could join those wires if I 1) replaced the inverter with the largest 12v Multiplus or whatever new may be on the market, and 2) Had batteries that could handle the current. Thoughts to mull over?

Tow vehicle:
I'd just be running the camper's 12v compressor fridge while driving, any battery charge would be a plus. I already have a Victron 12/12-18 Orion TR-Smart Isolated just collecting dust. It's unclear as to whether the truck will output enough current to pull this off through the 7-pin. Happy to do anderson plugs on rear bumper though.

Another TL;DR post from me, so not everything changes. If anyone even skims it and has a lightbulb moment, I'm all ears. I'm really just wrapped up in how I'm going to add more solar, not have to drill the roof again, and not waste the existing 400w of solar panels up there. That's the puzzle I'm most eager to solve!

Thanks!

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

Let me make a high-level comment. We did a cargo trailer -> camper but went all electric, including 9,000BTU mini-split. At the heart we have a 3000w inverter w/48v battery. We have 1300w solar, 27kwh battery bank, and 3000w generator. It all works great BUT.... we do have to serialize activities because we exceed 3000w of AC easily. The mini K-Cup alone spikes to 15000w.

My advice, think bigger/larger in all areas if you have this option. 2000w inverter? - I'd go at least 3000w / 48v if at all possible. Us - I'd go 6,000w AIO instead of our 3000w AIO with what we know now.

Nothing wrong with you're plans above, but it's also perfectly possible to do 48v and 3000w or 6000w if that helps.

 

[hour]

Let me make a high-level comment. We did a cargo trailer -> camper but went all electric, including 9,000BTU mini-split. At the heart we have a 3000w inverter w/48v battery. We have 1300w solar, 27kwh battery bank, and 3000w generator. It all works great BUT.... we do have to serialize activities because we exceed 3000w of AC easily. The mini K-Cup alone spikes to 15000w.

My advice, think bigger/larger in all areas if you have this option. 2000w inverter? - I'd go at least 3000w / 48v if at all possible. Us - I'd go 6,000w AIO instead of our 3000w AIO with what we know now.

Nothing wrong with you're plans above, but it's also perfectly possible to do 48v and 3000w or 6000w if that helps.

I think I'd be more open to going ham like that if the underbelly weren't enclosed and I knew all the wires would be there waiting for me, and labeled. I know they are not lol. This model may actually have an armored underbelly which would make this even more difficult to pull off. I know you can get large buck units to step down to 12v so I could, but the wiring - the existing wiring - and access, is big oof. I'd be all about it if I had a blank canvas cargo trailer.

I will mention that I'm solo and camped exclusively in a bare bones pop up camper for years. I make coffee with an aeropress, have no hair to blow dry, and use butane stoves outside with cast iron - never microwave. I really only want 120v for the air conditioner. The tv in the camper is 12v and I charge my laptops with 12v -> 60w USB-C PD units.

So there would never be a scenario where I needed more than just the air conditioning running off of AC, and I don't even want to achieve indefinite daylight runtime. Just want to run it briefly to take the edge off and let the system recharge via solar and with say a small generator. Not a generator that's running the entire shebang, just adding 800w to the battery bank for example in conjunction with solar.

 

[Rocketman]

Since you are a Victron Fan (I am too), this is what I would do - Multiplus 3000. This will run the air conditioner. I have a 12v 544ah DIY battery and I can run it for about an hour, then I need to start the generator or shut it off.

Get as much solar on the roof as possible.

Yes look at 48v for the system.

Battery bank under the bed to get enough to run the inverter and air conditioner.

Good Luck

 

[hour]

@Rocketman How do you use that 1hr? Cooling from 80 to 70, or holding at a higher temperature for less duty cycle? Good to know on MP3000. I'm sure a time will come when I'm confident enough to upgrade to a higher voltage, but I'm trying to do some more basic improvements first with a vision for the future. All of this will have to be done in an RV storage lot too, until I grow brass balls and tear down a fence + extend my driveway culvert to back in at home. One lane in each direction on the road in front of the house, currently tight driveway with ditches on either side, and a blind hill to contend with

I think one solution to my solar dilemma may be swapping the 12v 200w panels for 24v panels. Anything x ~27" wide, so theoretically larger than 200w as long as the width allows me to reuse the mounting feet. I haven't dealt with z brackets in forever though so if I can't reach my arm up under the panel and there's a bolt spinning within the panel frame then I'm absolutely effed and worse off than when I started with a floppy panel lol. But I'd be very chill with paralleling a bunch of 24v panels and knowing the existing PV wire could handle that vs 600+w additional in parallel.

 

[time2roll]

I would get a couple lithium batteries and get on the road. May not need as much as you think.
Take some time with planning. I could go all summer on what is already in place.

 

[hour]

I would get a couple lithium batteries and get on the road. May not need as much as you think.
Take some time with planning. I could go all summer on what is already in place.

Yeah, valid. Spose I won't need the AC any time soon and still have my shakedown trips to an established campground to figure things out a little better. Going to be weird as hell after crapping in holes miles from the nearest human for most of my camping career I bought this camper to go back to CO and spread my dog's ashes in our favorite spot, who I have to put down on Monday. Certainly going to use it more and stay out as long as I can, and keep going back out... but 7 months of being completely stationary caring for her through failed chemo and yadaya has been taxing and some screws are now loose. Midlife crisis @ 37. I enjoyed the distraction of researching and planning what trailer to get, and this is an extension of that since her downhill trajectory obviously hasn't taken a break for the weekend.

2,000 miles back to CO will be the first major trip. Until then I'll have some time to tinker. I did find a guy with a 2024 similar NoBo who said eff it and drilled the roof. I'll probably do the same if I can figure out which cabinet to get behind. Thanks for input.

I suppose the only thing to consider then if I just do a battery swap is what's happening with the truck. Opt 1: Pull the fuse on trailer charging, Opt 2: install DC-DC charger on trailer charge wire and see if it can take it (maybe it can if I set charge rate of 8a, certainly good enough to keep fridge running as I drive through the night), or Opt 3: do the power pole on bumper and punch a hole in the bottom of camper. Would be slick if the victron gear was weatherproof.

 

[HarryN]

The storage areas are good places for batteries, just watch to make sure that the floor is strong enough. A lot of compartments are intended for clothing type density. This can be a handy place to blow in some moderate temperature air to keep the Li batteries within their operating range.

As far as quantity of batteries, I like to look at the battery data sheet for the max continuous discharge rate and use them at ~ 50% of that rate. This number will vary brand to brand.

2000 real watts from 12 volt batteries is ~ ( 2000 watts ) / ( 12 volt ) ~ 200 amps.

So if I were building it up, I would try to put in enough "max battery discharge rate capacity" to support 400 amps.

Exactly which battery to use is up to you. In battle borns this would be 4 x 100 amp-hr size 27s. In some of the discount brands, it will take 2x this.

Some of them will discharge in temperatures down to around 4 F, and some just quit working all together at freezing.

 

[HarryN]

It is pretty common for people to want to park in the shade when on vacation, so solar generating capacity on the roof can take a hit.

One way to overcome this is to bring along 800 watts of solar panels and put them out in the sun. Even face up helps. They might end up being 50 ft away, so some losses are just going to happen. That is life.

I like to visualize this as having 4 panels x 200 watts in series. 1 panel is making up for the voltage loss in the wires, and 3 are providing useful power to the RV.

So 4 panels ( nominal 200 watts each) becomes like having 3 panels.

( 600 watts of useful solar getting to the RV ) / ( 12 volts ) ~ something in the victron xxx / 50 range solar charge controller or similar.

 

[HarryN]

As far as running the air conditioner, I would just buy a generator to re-charge the batteries while it runs off the inverter.

No amount of solar will be able to keep up with air conditioning in a practical way.

Something like a honda 7000 so it will charge fast and run long enough to be useful on a tank of fuel.

 

[littleharbor2]

Depending on location, your refrigerator vent is a useable chase for routing the wires.

 

[Rocketman]

@Rocketman How do you use that 1hr? Cooling from 80 to 70, or holding at a higher temperature for less duty cycle? Good to know on MP3000. I'm sure a time will come when I'm confident enough to upgrade to a higher voltage, but I'm trying to do some more basic improvements first with a vision for the future. All of this will have to be done in an RV storage lot too, until I grow brass balls and tear down a fence + extend my driveway culvert to back in at home. One lane in each direction on the road in front of the house, currently tight driveway with ditches on either side, and a blind hill to contend with

I think one solution to my solar dilemma may be swapping the 12v 200w panels for 24v panels. Anything x ~27" wide, so theoretically larger than 200w as long as the width allows me to reuse the mounting feet. I haven't dealt with z brackets in forever though so if I can't reach my arm up under the panel and there's a bolt spinning within the panel frame then I'm absolutely effed and worse off than when I started with a floppy panel lol. But I'd be very chill with paralleling a bunch of 24v panels and knowing the existing PV wire could handle that vs 600+w additional in parallel.

On my system that’s an hour of cooling use - so from like 85 down to 75. We don’t use the air conditioning much - it has wheels- find someplace higher or more north that’s cooler. We full-time and boondock as much as possible.

After an hour on air conditioning the batteries will still have enough to get through the night, they might charge up the next day - but not if the air conditioning is needed. We have 1400w of solar.

The reason I like the Multiplus 3000 is it is big enough to run any large useage item - air conditioner, blow dryer, convection microwave,etc (only one at a time), and all our low draw items - chargers,computers, Starlink, etc.

Get some useage in your rig then decide on upgrading.

 

[Boomerweps]

I don’t understand why it would be too hard to rewire the existing panels in series. Then use the 75/15 MPPT SCC in place of the WPM SCC. Get a LiFePO of the AH you desire and go camping to try everything out and discover what you might be lacking.
I think the problem with auto detect converters has mostly been from wire size and distance between the battery and converter, I.e., voltage drop.

 

[corn18]

My favorite bit of equipment in my system is the Victron MPII. It enables everything that I like:

1. Can run one large appliance, including one 15k BTU ac
2. The power share means I can use it with my smaller 2500W Champion inverter generator.
3. Everything talks to each other and I have a cool display to control everything and see everything happening.

First question:

Does your 2000W inverter power everything on your 120V power panel? This is important to determine how hard it is to replace it.

 

[time2roll]

I suppose the only thing to consider then if I just do a battery swap is what's happening with the truck. Opt 1: Pull the fuse on trailer charging, Opt 2: install DC-DC charger on trailer charge wire and see if it can take it (maybe it can if I set charge rate of 8a, certainly good enough to keep fridge running as I drive through the night), or Opt 3: do the power pole on bumper and punch a hole in the bottom of camper. Would be slick if the victron gear was weatherproof.

That long wire between vehicles will limit the power getting to the trailer. Just plug it in and go.
In time you may find more power is better and add a DC-DC charger to get more. Or it might be just fine. My trailer has no issues.

 

[0truck0]

I would max out the solar. Get rid of the roof AC unit, do a mini split or rig up a window unit at the back or wherever. Any shadow on the solar panels kills. If you have one little shaded part of the panel then you lose the majority of the would-be power from that string of panels.
Set the roof panels up so that you have zones, and if one zone is shaded then does not affect the other panels. Two way to do that... research it on this forum so we do not get way off track.
Roof vents will shade panels also, consider moving one to the rear wall instead.

Get bigger panels and maybe even get rid of the ones you have, sell as new I think, sounds like they are new.

If you max out the roof panels then you have power to run a low btu AC. A 5200 window unit would do good on batteries, mini-splits are more efficient too, and then get enough batteries to run the AC all night and have reserve left.
You will need a soft-start for the AC unit. ALl depends on how u will use an AC, if at all.
BUT not a big deal to run an AC off a small generator, with a soft start you can usually use smaller generator that is better on fuel.

Yes, get a decent MPPT controller, or multiple ones.

The way this is set up shows that the factory has NO clue what solar is, they think it is decoration for a sales point. Unless you always and only face the rig to the East then that solar panel beside the AC unit will always be in the shade and be of no use. It has to be moved. The AC will shade it, the panel will produce nearly nothing.

 

[justinm001]

Rip the AC out and put rails across the entire roof and load completely with solar, would even remove the wineguard and leave 1-2 ft in the front/back for comms like a starlink dish.

Pair of Victron MP3000s setup in split phase. 4 SOK 48v rack batteries. Cerbogx, mppts and a few Ruuvi temp sensors

Mini split on the rear up top

 

[FLD]

I outfitted our Mini Lite 2205S with three 190-watt HQST panels on the roof, which are virtually identical to the factory installed GoPower 190-watt panel. I also removed the GoPower pwm controller and installed an mppt controller near the batteries. Along with those additions, I installed a 3000/9000-watt inverter-charger. I could have run everything with a 2000/6000-watt unit but I wanted the bigger one's 90-amp charge rate.
We have an 800 amp hour lifepo4 battery bank, which takes up more room than you have on the tongue. If you think you might need to run your rooftop air, I'd encourage you to add as much battery capacity as you can fit in the space available. BTW, running our rooftop air and the camper's other 12-volt devices (12-volt fridge, lights, etc) draws 140 amps from the battery when the air unit's compressor is running. A rough estimate of our unit's run time is 50%. That equates to around 8 hours of air conditioning time at night, given our 800ah battery bank.
I'd suggest adding two more panels and connect them in 2S2P (assuming you intend to install an mppt controller) to utilize the higher voltage with your existing solar wiring. You risk a little loss if you have some shading but you can work around that.
The price of higher capacity lifepo4 batteries continues to drop. There are a couple of 300ah batteries on Amazon right now, a Kepworth mini battery for $509 after using the $90 coupon and another brand, Tuchong, for $479 after using the available $60 coupon.
I bought the Kepworth 300ah mini battery and it performs slightly better than advertised.

 

[G8trwood]

If you have low usage, (as stated, you know what they are) add a couple 300ah batteries and maybe a few panels (even ground deployment) and go. I rarely run the inverter and use mainly 12v loads. Gen stays in truck and run it from there if needed.