Hybrid questions and HVAC

[addision]

Getting ready to buy my inverters and panels for a 20kw system (50 Canadian Solar 400W panels).

I have read a lot about the Sol-Ark 12k and it appears to be a more complete inverter that I can do everything I need with fewer pieces of equipment.

I have a couple concerns:

• First, is that I am just over the capacity of the unit if they are 9kw ea. x 2= 18kw and I need 20k capacity. I do want grid tied, battery, critical loads. Will I need three inverters?

• Second, I definitely need the HVAC and refrigerator as critical loads. During the day in So-Cal in the summer this isn't even a question. Outages are rarely over 4 hours where I live and we can use laptops, tablets and phones to do work and school. However, the HVAC is a requirement. I can run most everything but the HVAC off of my 3500 watt camping generator if there is a crisis.

Will the Sol-Ark have an issue with my HVAC, I believe when I checked this summer it pulls 208v and about 41 amps. I think this would use the capacity of one of the inverters by itself! Should I be looking at two critical load panels? One for HVAC and a second for other loads?​

• Also, I have been looking to see if there is another competitors product on the market yet but I can't tell if they will do everything the Sol-Ark will. While I do believe Sol-Ark to be a quality product... they are not inexpensive and I just want to make sure there isn't a new product on the market that I have missed.

 

[robby]

Getting ready to buy my inverters and panels for a 20kw system (50 Canadian Solar 400W panels).

I have read a lot about the Sol-Ark 12k and it appears to be a more complete inverter that I can do everything I need with fewer pieces of equipment.

I have a couple concerns:

• First, is that I am just over the capacity of the unit if they are 9kw ea. x 2= 18kw and I need 20k capacity. I do want grid tied, battery, critical loads. Will I need three inverters?

• Second, I definitely need the HVAC and refrigerator as critical loads. During the day in So-Cal in the summer this isn't even a question. Outages are rarely over 4 hours where I live and we can use laptops, tablets and phones to do work and school. However, the HVAC is a requirement. I can run most everything but the HVAC off of my 3500 watt camping generator if there is a crisis.

Will the Sol-Ark have an issue with my HVAC, I believe when I checked this summer it pulls 208v and about 41 amps. I think this would use the capacity of one of the inverters by itself! Should I be looking at two critical load panels? One for HVAC and a second for other loads?​

• Also, I have been looking to see if there is another competitors product on the market yet but I can't tell if they will do everything the Sol-Ark will. While I do believe Sol-Ark to be a quality product... they are not inexpensive and I just want to make sure there isn't a new product on the market that I have missed.

Are you sure about that 208V at 41amps? 208V is not common unless it's a three phase AC and 41A is very high draw?

 

[addision]

Are you sure about that 208V at 41amps? 208V is not common unless it's a three phase AC and 41A is very high draw?

I was wrong, I was looking at my notes from this past summer and typed the wrong # of the 208/230 portion from the tag. Yes it is single phase common household connection.

I know I did a measurement this summer and I clearly remember writing the 41 amps for a reason. Maybe that was startup? I remember writing it for a reason. I can check it again, but the tag does say run amps of 19.2A.

 

[Jred]

If your AC runs at 41 amps you may have a problem. Your startup current could and should be much higher.

 

[addision]

If your AC runs at 41 amps you may have a problem. Your startup current could and should be much higher.

I will go out and check it this weekend again.

 

[RCinFLA]

A low freq inverter is a better choice for running HVAC due to large starting surge current requirements for the HVAC.

A LF inverter with its heavy low freq transformer has a softer core saturation and passes the surge current to batteries.

A HF inverter has a first stage that boosts battery DC up to a high voltage DC. This uses small high frequency ferrite transformer which has a very abrupt and sharp core saturation characteristic. When ferrite core saturates the driving MOSFET's current drastically rises to destructive current level. A well designed HF inverter will shut down MOSFET gate drive to prevent damage but the protection circuitry has to act very fast to protect MOSFET's.

 

[addision]

A low freq inverter is a better choice for running HVAC due to large starting surge current requirements for the HVAC.

A LF inverter with its heavy low freq transformer has a softer core saturation and passes the surge current to batteries.

A HF inverter has a first stage that boosts battery DC up to a high voltage DC. This uses small high frequency ferrite transformer which has a very abrupt and sharp core saturation characteristic. When ferrite core saturates the driving MOSFET's current drastically rises to destructive current level. A well designed HF inverter will shut down MOSFET gate drive to prevent damage but the protection circuitry has to act very fast to protect MOSFET's.

 

[bill47201]

lol anyone in the market for a SPF12000T DVM? i dont think this setup is going to be worth it on a retro install setup.

 

[Bobert]

Getting ready to buy my inverters and panels for a 20kw system (50 Canadian Solar 400W panels).

I have read a lot about the Sol-Ark 12k and it appears to be a more complete inverter that I can do everything I need with fewer pieces of equipment.

I have a couple concerns:

• First, is that I am just over the capacity of the unit if they are 9kw ea. x 2= 18kw and I need 20k capacity. I do want grid tied, battery, critical loads. Will I need three inverters?

• Second, I definitely need the HVAC and refrigerator as critical loads. During the day in So-Cal in the summer this isn't even a question. Outages are rarely over 4 hours where I live and we can use laptops, tablets and phones to do work and school. However, the HVAC is a requirement. I can run most everything but the HVAC off of my 3500 watt camping generator if there is a crisis.

Will the Sol-Ark have an issue with my HVAC, I believe when I checked this summer it pulls 208v and about 41 amps. I think this would use the capacity of one of the inverters by itself! Should I be looking at two critical load panels? One for HVAC and a second for other loads?​

• Also, I have been looking to see if there is another competitors product on the market yet but I can't tell if they will do everything the Sol-Ark will. While I do believe Sol-Ark to be a quality product... they are not inexpensive and I just want to make sure there isn't a new product on the market that I have missed.

Can you convert to mini splits? Depending on the age of your hvac the efficiency could pay for the install and reduce the necessary size of your solar system.

 

[sgturner]

I would try and measure your power draw of your A/C unit. I have had my Sol-Ark 12K running for a couple of weeks now, feeding my whole house except for my wife's 10kW kiln. My A/C is a 4ton unit about 18years old, so not very efficient. I was worried about how much power it would draw. Turns out its about 5kW. The Sol-Ark handles it and charging one of our PHEVs (~4kW) simultaneously with no issues.

Regarding 20kW of panels and 2 x 12Ks - again no problem - each 12K can handle 12KW of solar.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Getting ready to buy my inverters and panels for a 20kw system (50 Canadian Solar 400W panels).

I have read a lot about the Sol-Ark 12k and it appears to be a more complete inverter that I can do everything I need with fewer pieces of equipment.

I have a couple concerns:

• First, is that I am just over the capacity of the unit if they are 9kw ea. x 2= 18kw and I need 20k capacity. I do want grid tied, battery, critical loads. Will I need three inverters?

• Second, I definitely need the HVAC and refrigerator as critical loads. During the day in So-Cal in the summer this isn't even a question. Outages are rarely over 4 hours where I live and we can use laptops, tablets and phones to do work and school. However, the HVAC is a requirement. I can run most everything but the HVAC off of my 3500 watt camping generator if there is a crisis.

Will the Sol-Ark have an issue with my HVAC, I believe when I checked this summer it pulls 208v and about 41 amps. I think this would use the capacity of one of the inverters by itself! Should I be looking at two critical load panels? One for HVAC and a second for other loads?​

• Also, I have been looking to see if there is another competitors product on the market yet but I can't tell if they will do everything the Sol-Ark will. While I do believe Sol-Ark to be a quality product... they are not inexpensive and I just want to make sure there isn't a new product on the market that I have missed.

The Sol-Ark can only covert from Batteries to AC 9k but 12k with Solar or grid tie.
You can run 2 12ks and never have an issue.

I run 2 12ks on all electric house with 2 ac units and a shop and have no problem.

Are you using 20kw a day or do you really have 20kw peak load?
Seems like a lot but it’s possible.

Or

are you basing your need on the 20kw array?
2 12ks will handle that much power with 4 MPPT channel’s.

If you really want overhead go with 2 Sol-ark 15kw plus you get the added benefits of not having to install a transfer switch..

 

[reddyk]

Upgrading my 3500 watt emergency system to scale for my HVAC. 15 yrs old Central HVAC for 2200 sf house in So. Cal. My first step is to learn what the power requirements are, how do I do that? Next I'll need to calculate how many more panels I need (already have 4 100 watt panels.) Also, can a DIY connect the HVAC; do I need clearance from power co.; will I need an electrician. Also looking for the very best value in deep charge batteries. Would really appreciate your help with this project. Thank you.

 

[RCinFLA]

You need a clamp on amp meter with an accurate initial surge current reading capability. Most clamp on AC meters with surge capability are not too great for accuracy of the surge current measurement. They typically read low.

Some compressors have much greater startup surge current than others. Scroll compressors are very common in newer units and have a large startup surge current. I had a 3.5 ton that had a run current of 12.5 amps and 400 msec startup surge of 160 amps from 240vac. My newer 4 ton has about 13.5A run and 400 msec startup surge of 180A at 240vac.

I use and Easystart 368 softstarter to take the 180A surge down to about 65A.

This is Emerson's version of their softstarter 'SecureStart' with a 4 ton Copeland scroll compressor. Graph is from their spec sheet. Emerson owns Copeland.