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I bought a thermal-imager and ...

crossy

crossy

Solar Wizard
Joined
Apr 27, 2021
Messages
1,248
Location
Thailand, just north of Bangkok.
Not up in smoke, but rather warmer than I would like.

So, I bought a Mileseey TR256i thermal-imager, plugs into the USB on your phone. There are many similar units around with comparable features, I had a 13% voucher for this one :)

First experiments were encouraging: -

The technology proves what doggo owners have known for years; our best friends have cold noses.
Chihuahuas also use their ears as radiators.

219201_0.jpg

To more mundane things.

This is our 300A shunt carrying 150A. The right hand lug looks a little warm, certainly warmer than the other.

I shall re-make in the morning and we shall see how much difference it makes.

219262_0.jpg
 
Last edited:
Great information - thanks for posting.

Connections rely on the wire to carry away the heat.

For 150 amps the minimum wire size to use - based on the ampacity charts - is 2/0 also called 00 in the US.

For 200 amps regular use it would be 3/0. ( roughly 85mm2 if I am reading the charts correctly )

https://www.cerrowire.com/products/resources/tables-calculators/ampacity-charts/

1xtechnologies.com

MM2 to AWG - Wire Size Conversion Chart, Table, & Calculator [PDF]

MM2 to AWG Wire size, how to convert mm to awg, mm2 for awg, from mm2 to awg, mm2 into awg, conversion chart table, diameter, amops, pdf, formula
1xtechnologies.com 1xtechnologies.com

Even at these sizes, things can get warm.
 
HarryN said:
Great information - thanks for posting.

Connections rely on the wire to carry away the heat.

For 150 amps the minimum wire size to use - based on the ampacity charts - is 2/0 also called 00 in the US.

For 200 amps regular use it would be 3/0. ( roughly 85mm2 if I am reading the charts correctly )

https://www.cerrowire.com/products/resources/tables-calculators/ampacity-charts/

1xtechnologies.com

MM2 to AWG - Wire Size Conversion Chart, Table, & Calculator [PDF]

MM2 to AWG Wire size, how to convert mm to awg, mm2 for awg, from mm2 to awg, mm2 into awg, conversion chart table, diameter, amops, pdf, formula
1xtechnologies.com 1xtechnologies.com

Even at these sizes, things can get warm.
Click to expand...

Here is how you have to know about mm2 , amps and length.
We use meters not feet.
 

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There are two requirements to select a wire for use - at least in the US for national electrical code.

1) Using the planned amps, look at the ampacity chart. Never go smaller than the ampacity chart for a wire no matter if the wire is short or long. This sets the absolute minimum wire size for the use no matter what. Use the coolest temperature wire rating unless it is a special case.

2) Check for power loss to see if you might want to go to a larger wire to reduce losses further than the wire size in ( 1 ) by going larger.

You can use a calculation by hand, or blue sea has an on line calculator. Probably others do as well.

This calculation is to check if you want to go to a "larger wire" than the absolute minimum size in the ampacity chart.


Circuit Wizard - Blue Sea Systems

circuitwizard.bluesea.com circuitwizard.bluesea.com
 
crossy said:
Not up in smoke, but rather warmer than I would like.

So, I bought a Mileseey TR256i thermal-imager, plugs into the USB on your phone. There are many similar units around with comparable features, I had a 13% voucher for this one :)

First experiments were encouraging: -

The technology proves what doggo owners have known for years; our best friends have cold noses.
Chihuahuas also use their ears as radiators.

View attachment 224470

To more mundane things.

This is our 300A shunt carrying 150A. The right hand lug looks a little warm, certainly warmer than the other.

I shall re-make in the morning and we shall see how much difference it makes.

View attachment 224471
Click to expand...

Not bad for a phone-centric device. Most of those are awful - nothing resolves but big blobs of color.

Some of my "test images" are of the dog pack as well.
 

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Pretty good price might have to treat myself also looked at the slightly cheaper version and that's the potato quality I though most of the plug phone versions are.
 
crossy said:
The technology proves what doggo owners have known for years; our best friends have cold noses.
Chihuahuas also use their ears as radiators.
Click to expand...
v_green57 said:
Some of my "test images" are of the dog pack as well.
Click to expand...

So, when you put the doggies in a 2P3S configuration like this, you can use the thermal image camera to make sure they are correctly 'balanced' to get maximum power delivery :)

winter-home-banner-dogsled.jpg
 
v_green57 said:
Not bad for a phone-centric device. Most of those are awful - nothing resolves but big blobs of color.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the even more expensive devices also use a visible-light channel to sharpen up the image.

A bit like analogue colour TV used to be, a relatively high-definition monochrome image (luminance) and a low-definition colour image (chrominance) just splodging the colour around - I come from PAL land those were the terms we used.

If you ever saw a TV with a dead luminance channel it was literally impossible to tell what the image was supposed to be other than scenery (green at the bottom, blue at the top) or a talking head (pink blob in the middle).

The eye/brain does the hard work of defining where the edges are.
 
HarryN said:
Great information - thanks for posting.

Connections rely on the wire to carry away the heat.

For 150 amps the minimum wire size to use - based on the ampacity charts - is 2/0 also called 00 in the US.

For 200 amps regular use it would be 3/0. ( roughly 85mm2 if I am reading the charts correctly )

https://www.cerrowire.com/products/resources/tables-calculators/ampacity-charts/

1xtechnologies.com

MM2 to AWG - Wire Size Conversion Chart, Table, & Calculator [PDF]

MM2 to AWG Wire size, how to convert mm to awg, mm2 for awg, from mm2 to awg, mm2 into awg, conversion chart table, diameter, amops, pdf, formula
1xtechnologies.com 1xtechnologies.com

Even at these sizes, things can get warm.
Click to expand...
If using 105C rated cable like windy nation power flex I believe the ratings are a fair bit higher.
 
Brucey said:
If using 105C rated cable like windy nation power flex I believe the ratings are a fair bit higher.
Click to expand...

The rating is higher, but the result are wires that are running at a higher temperature and more power loss. It is just a matter of how hot you want the wires to be.
 
I've used doogee phones for the past 10 years or so(literally bulletproof) looking at the price of thermal imaging camera I might just pick up the doogee s98 pro it has a 256x192 thermal camera built in and it's not much more than a cheapish stand alone camera also the similar model I had before fell off my car roof while I was doing 100kph hit a pickup truck as it bounced down the road and survived unscathed with some minor dents and scratches.
 
 
 
crossy said:
The Mileseey is 256 x 192 which seems to be the current sweet-spot in the bang for the buck stakes.
Click to expand...
The doogee phone is 3000 baht more and using the same sensor, I had the mileseey in my cart but thinking hard about it I might aswell get a whole new phone been using a tablet for the last 12months but it's kinda big.
crossy said:
Seems low-res, but who remembers VGA being 320x200 in 256 colours, and we all thought it was wonderful?
Click to expand...
Fine for playing pacman but I'd want something with a higher resolution just for circuit boards and such maybe a low res is fine if your only aiming at single cables at AWG4/0
 
I have a Guide PC210. Works great, decent resolution (256x192) and refresh rate. and optional there is a macro lens availble if you need to closeups.

Guide IR PC210 warmtebeeldcamera 256x192

De PC210 warmtebeeldcamera van Guide IR toont een uitstekend beeld door zijn hoge resolutie. Ook is de kwaliteit van de camera bovengemiddeld.
www.eleshop.nl www.eleshop.nl
 
HarryN said:
The rating is higher, but the result are wires that are running at a higher temperature and more power loss. It is just a matter of how hot you want the wires to be.
Click to expand...
This is very frustrating. One chart says 90 deg 4/0 is good for 260A and one chart says 105 deg 4/0 is good for 440. Then I go to the Blue Sea Systems calculator and it says 90 deg 4/0 is good for 385A and 105 deg is good for 445A. Then I go to the Southwire calculator and it says 90 deg 4/0 is good for 455A in free air (whatever that means) and 90 deg 4/0 is good for 260A in conduit/direct burial.

That is quite a range of ampacity for 90 deg 4/0 cable: 260A-455A. The lower number is in conduit, the higher number is free air.

My MPII draws 325A @ 12V at max power. Victron recommends 2x2/0 cable for it. 2x2/0 90 deg cable in conduit is rated for 195A each, so 390A total. A single 90 deg 4/0 cable in conduit is rated for 260A. Seems like I would be way better off using 2x2/0 vs a single 4/0 for my MPII. I can tell you without a doubt that my 105 deg 4/0 cable I am currently using gets pretty warm with the MPII at max power.
 
Can you fit two 4/0s? Not sure if it was this thread where narrower lugs were thought to be needed. Then no worries at all about heating.
 
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