I don't understand the love affair with the AIO approach.
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PreppenWolf
Solar Wizard
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Cost. This stuff is expensive and everyone doesn't need a Ferrari.
I'll stick with examples of 6500s since that what I have.
If you build a 4 or 6 unit 6500EX setup, you're not eggs in one basket. If one unit fails all you lose is capacity.
You could build (3) 2 unit 13kW 120/240V setups each with its own subpanel using 6500EXs for the cost of single high end 12-15kW unit.
Its far easier to setup.
The 6500EX has high PV input.
I'll stick with examples of 6500s since that what I have.
If you build a 4 or 6 unit 6500EX setup, you're not eggs in one basket. If one unit fails all you lose is capacity.
You could build (3) 2 unit 13kW 120/240V setups each with its own subpanel using 6500EXs for the cost of single high end 12-15kW unit.
Its far easier to setup.
The 6500EX has high PV input.
OffGridInTheCity
Solar Wizard
My home system is individual components - which means control boxes, bus-bars, breakers, a bunch of 'stuff' to interconnect things.
In my trailer, I did a MPP Solar 3048LV AIO - much simpler since all the interconnects are within the unit.
I can see both sides. Part of the answer is scale. My home system is 24,000w (240v@100a) and multiple components required no matter which way one goes. The Trailer is 3000w - much smaller system.
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wattmatters
Solar Wizard
Space, convenience, simplicity, time, budget, value for money.
Each to their own. Mine is not a love affair, just a practical solution which meets my needs.
If I had a dedicated facilities space and a bucket load more $ then sure, I'd happily set up a system with individual components.
But by the time I got to that level of facility investment I may as well just pay someone to install it all for me.
Each to their own. Mine is not a love affair, just a practical solution which meets my needs.
If I had a dedicated facilities space and a bucket load more $ then sure, I'd happily set up a system with individual components.
But by the time I got to that level of facility investment I may as well just pay someone to install it all for me.
Rednecktek
Expert Newbie
A lot of it is cost. Even if you were pretty frugal it's really hard to buy all the individual components for less than the cost of a comparable AIO. If you look at the "reliability factor" of Tier 1 stuff, I can still get a comperable AIO and 2 or 3 complete drop-in spare units for the same cost.
The convienence. A basic AIO is 6 conductors between batteries, panels, and breaker box. Doing a component system is a LOT more lug crimping and wire cutting. I can go from a pile of parts to a fully functional system in a fraction of the time with AIO's.
Space. The footprint of an AIO is smaller and requires less mounting and spacing than a component system. When space is limited having a compact footprint can be a real advantage. Having said that I will absolutely advocate for component systems in things like small trailers and RV's because you can spread your parts out and fit the smaller components in the smaller cabinets you tend to have access to.
N00B friendly. Everyone I know could put together a basic AIO system, even my sportsball brother. When he sees the pile of components his eyes glaze over.
Just a few reasons. I'm honestly suprised the Tier 1 companies haven't gotten on the AIO band wagon. MidNite tried and failed, but there are enough fanboys out there that would remorgage their house to buy a 3kw Victron AIO if it existed.
The convienence. A basic AIO is 6 conductors between batteries, panels, and breaker box. Doing a component system is a LOT more lug crimping and wire cutting. I can go from a pile of parts to a fully functional system in a fraction of the time with AIO's.
Space. The footprint of an AIO is smaller and requires less mounting and spacing than a component system. When space is limited having a compact footprint can be a real advantage. Having said that I will absolutely advocate for component systems in things like small trailers and RV's because you can spread your parts out and fit the smaller components in the smaller cabinets you tend to have access to.
N00B friendly. Everyone I know could put together a basic AIO system, even my sportsball brother. When he sees the pile of components his eyes glaze over.
Just a few reasons. I'm honestly suprised the Tier 1 companies haven't gotten on the AIO band wagon. MidNite tried and failed, but there are enough fanboys out there that would remorgage their house to buy a 3kw Victron AIO if it existed.
rodrick
Free energy enthusiast
Aio are the plug and play of the solar build’s, scale ability is great also having multiple units for less of the cost off a tier 1 unit helps with system up time if I have only 1 victron and something goes wrong being totally off grid (nearest power lines 10 miles away) just doesn’t cut it I have a spare aio ready to swap out for about $700 so I have more inverter capacity with a large mppt capacity and higher charging ability for $500 less than a victron Quattro and still have to buy scc separately that would add another $2000 cost aios are in my opinion best bang for your buck
Victron do sell AIO’s, have done for years.
Rednecktek
Expert Newbie
They do? Well, now I know. Maybe I'll sell off a spare yacht and pick one up. ?
rodrick
Free energy enthusiast
Didn’t know that what models are they how much more cost compared to like a Quattro
The easy solar range, the cost is about the same as buying the individual components - the packaging is neat though.
Attachments
rodrick
Free energy enthusiast
They are all 230 volt 50 hz euro models
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
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Short answer.
Cost and ease of installation.
Cost and ease of installation.
wattmatters
Solar Wizard
It is, however to get the same capacity I currently have (8 kW) with a Victron AIO solution it would require triple the $, twice the space and more complex cabling. It's hardly an appealing alternative.
This is a DIY forum. The reason most (not all) people are doing DIY?
Budget.
If I were going to spend that much $ then I wouldn't bother with DIY as that's now in the realm of commercially installed system prices. And at that price it's no longer financially rational. It would be because the $'s didn't matter.
Leeds
Solar Enthusiast
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At one point someone offered a crt-based TV with a VCR and a DVD player inside of it. For reasons unknown, they sold a lot of units and other manufacturers followed suit.
In the decades since I've struggled to understand the thinking of the buyers. It seemed obvious that once any of the three devices failed, the entire unit would be relatively worthless- And that certainly proved true.
But I've come to believe that people bought those units not caring about efficiency or the shorter meat-time-between-failures. The people buying them were likely they types who weren't comfortable learning how to plug in coax cables or use the button called "input select." By buying the all in one solution they were able to rely on the automagic ability of the unit to display whichever device was running (or last touched by a user.)
I think that's what's going on here. Some people feel more comfortable buying something they know isn't top notch because they feel it can take care of their needs without them having to learn how these individual devices work. And there's value in that.
Of course that leads to a lot of device-specific questions when they crack a single egg in their AIO basket...
/Opinion
In the decades since I've struggled to understand the thinking of the buyers. It seemed obvious that once any of the three devices failed, the entire unit would be relatively worthless- And that certainly proved true.
But I've come to believe that people bought those units not caring about efficiency or the shorter meat-time-between-failures. The people buying them were likely they types who weren't comfortable learning how to plug in coax cables or use the button called "input select." By buying the all in one solution they were able to rely on the automagic ability of the unit to display whichever device was running (or last touched by a user.)
I think that's what's going on here. Some people feel more comfortable buying something they know isn't top notch because they feel it can take care of their needs without them having to learn how these individual devices work. And there's value in that.
Of course that leads to a lot of device-specific questions when they crack a single egg in their AIO basket...
/Opinion
wattmatters
Solar Wizard
When buying something many might have a clear idea of how long they expect something to operate for.
If you are only expecting to be in your home for a few years, or plan to sell the camper/motorhome etc after your travels, then over spending on expensive kit may make little sense.
And just because something is AIO doesn't mean it's crap. There are also exceptionally good AIOs that cost a LOT.
Plus as I said, I don't have the space to be fitting and cabling up separate components.
diy.....most people in the netherlands are paying via mortgage/loans. So they buy expensive stuff.
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timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
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For the money I saved going with AIO's. (Including two spare units) I could afford a much larger system. And the ROI made it worth doing. And the small packaging fit in the space I have available. And the finished install is clean and neat.
12VoltInstalls
life passes by too quickly to not live in freedom
I actually feel like I bought a top-notch unit in many ways with the MPP unit I bought.
I didn’t and don’t expect early failure. I recognize that it isn’t top-shelf in price nor is it top shelf in branding penetration, and the price also suggests the engineering R&D doesn’t require a lot of money in payback. All of those misding characteristics are present in top-tier brands.
Nevertheless I selected the AIO for several reasons, and yes price was a notable consideration. But it offered the SCC parameters I required, has a small footprint, I didn’t need to plan any cabling, and it integrated perfectly for SBU usefulness including a built-in substantial battery charger. The biggest downside is I had a 12V requirement and have/had cabling to support 2500W but the unit has a meager 1kW inverter. I do have a separate 2kW psw inverter so that was not a deal breaker.
With all the other advantages and its very positive user reviews I selected it anyway. FWIW: If it cost the same as or more than mid-shelf, mid-priced components the auto transfer and built-in charger would be the only advantages and probably I wouldn’t have spent for an AIO.
AIOs are also scalable and can meet redundancy thinking as well as mentioned.
AIOs have a place in consideration of a buildout.
Having said that, my about-to-be-installed upgrade to 3690W of panels will sideline the AIO- I’m using two SCCs, the separate 2kW psw inverter, and may not ever need grid backup connectivity again for this circumstance. When I build the house a larger (or two) split phase AIO will be in the running again for the same reasons listed above. Not only that- by the time I bought components, transfer switches, and sub-panels, I can have money leftover with AIOs and enjoy 0-second ups-like switchover for grid-down situations; grid may be unnecessary 9+ months of the year for household use (though convenient for welders, tablesaw, other big stationary tools)
That’s why AIOs are viewed positively by some: advantages hard to dismiss in a build that have nothing to do with electrical competency.
*EDIT
Realistically, I could have added a second 1012LV-MK for the same output as the separate 2000W inverter. Monetarily, a second AIO would make sense, too, as it would only be $100 more than the combined cost of the 6420AN and 4215AN I purchased but at the time I ordered stuff there were no 1012LV’s in stock. I could use the SCCs in both units simultaneously, only turning on the second AIO when more than 1000W is required (at ~27W idle consumption for the 1012LV’s, each, that’s not terrible but is a factor to consider this time of year. The 2000W psw inverter is 11W idle consumption… or 20% of the AIOs, combined. The 2kW inverter’s fans are quieter and run less often, though the 1012LV’s fans are variable speed so not often that obtrusive.)
Do you see why the AIO’s are attractive, now, even for small systems?
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timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
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Also
It takes about the same effort to replace an individual board. As it does to replace an individual module. But again, is much cheaper.
If one of my AIO's fail. I can swap in a replacement in less than one hour. And then replace the failed board at my leisure.
It takes about the same effort to replace an individual board. As it does to replace an individual module. But again, is much cheaper.
If one of my AIO's fail. I can swap in a replacement in less than one hour. And then replace the failed board at my leisure.
Not a valid comparison and a rather negative view of personal choice. There are many multipurpose devices that have replaced single purpose devices. The smart phone is one. Computers were another. While true that introduces that a individual component failure means replacing the entire device so what? If the cost is less than (or equal) to replacing just one item of a setup it is no big deal.
Now when the individual components offer the same features as a AIO that would be different. Off grid AIO's give you a SCC, inverter/battery charger, ATS (UPS switching), user adjustable settings, modes of operation, contacts features like generator start or relay operation and monitoring programs including remote operation. You have to have a amazing individual item setup to accomplish all that the one box AIO gives you.
To me the off grid AIO takes solar power from just being a gimmick or emergency supply to a usable everyday power source. AC assist is great and no need to get a utility companies approval for grid tie.
OzSolar
Whatever you did, that's what you planned.
FWIW, I just added a 5.35kW array and charge controller to my system with 23-year-old Trace 4048 inverters that are still alive. It's a modular system with Outback DC and AC load centers. Plenty of room to work in it but it's around 5' wide and 4' tall. That's a lot of real estate for 8kW.
It's not an exaggeration to say I've got at least 6 hours in rounding up the electrical fittings, breakers, mounting and wiring up the charge controller. I bet I mumbled to myself 10 times I would have been ahead to just start over with a new AIO which I'll be doing eventually anyway. Probably next week when one of my Trace inverters die. Oh well... never was known for my smart decisions.
There was no such thing as AIO's when I did this back in the day.
It's not an exaggeration to say I've got at least 6 hours in rounding up the electrical fittings, breakers, mounting and wiring up the charge controller. I bet I mumbled to myself 10 times I would have been ahead to just start over with a new AIO which I'll be doing eventually anyway. Probably next week when one of my Trace inverters die. Oh well... never was known for my smart decisions.
There was no such thing as AIO's when I did this back in the day.
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