I want to power my 1 HP well pump that is U.S. 240v split phase from a small solar system.

[Supervstech]

Hi, i am looking for a similar gadget ( one that can take 2-120v and up it to 240v) what is the exact name of that "autotransformer"?

Thanks

I reread your post, and you do NOT connect two inverters to make a step up transformer work... my bad.

What you want is a combiner... and the inverters have to have that ability. Or you need to be an electronic guru...

 

[Steve_S]

Hello,
How long and how often are you using the "yiyen" inverter?
Is it running your 240v 60hz ok?
Any issues?

I've had the YiYen for 3 years, used it for 1 then upgraded to the Samlex, it's now a backup if needed and will be re-assigned to the small greenhouse.
It is 24VDC in, 120VAC @ 60Hz out, has input for Generator (L5:30) and 120VAC from "grid" needs external switching etc for both AC sides, or use Gen manually.
It runs a tad "fast" whch can vbe seen on digital clocks going faster, so 60Hz is more like 62, regardless of what the LCD display shows. but no other issue with that.
The remote uses 6 wire, phone wire and has a max distance of 30 feet., could not extend that, even using Cat-6 Ethernet cable. (cable only)
No problems, always ran fine.
PEEVES, uses Dip Switches and very limited for "tweaking". Uses a pot selector for battery type, not easy. Does charge OK (never brave enough to try it's de-sulphate mode though) and when charging from Genny, it was slower than my Samlex, by quite a bit, I'm not sure of it's "actual" amps out. Charging modes are fixed, relative to battery type selected by switch.

For $650 USD it is a fair deal and better than many other "Value" units out there but it is not "pro" quality and does not have the extras that are more commonly available today. Since then Yiyen has come out with more, bigger & better ones with more features with only a slight increase in their price point. (things like LifePO / Lithium support too).

Hope that helps.

 

[Ulmo]

I have a 240v well and I occasional have extended power outages. I want to hook up an inexpensive 3000w (6000 surge) US 240 split phase inverter or a 120v to a US split phase 240v voltage converter/transformer to an existing small backup solar system. The budget is $500 or I just will buy a small backup generator to run the pump. I already bought A 110/220 converter but it turned out to be for the European 220 single phase, as is every one I find on Amazon.

SureStart might be required for low wattage inverters for motors. Find at http://hypereng.com/

I think it requires fitting to your motor, though, so that could be a major hassle.

Also, if you have a choice, get an inverter with a high wattage temporary current capability & specification. For instance, some inverters allow 3x the "continuous" wattage just for temporary surges (whereas some other inverters only allow a scant 1.1x of continuous). That high surge capability inverter might not be enough to start the motor by itself, so get that AND the soft start from HyperEng, and it could be enough to make it work; each by itself is doubtful enough to get a motor going with a small wattage inverter, but working together, if you do the math and spec it right, it could be perfect or better.

That's how a lot of places start motors and compressors with solar and battery systems. Just about every Tesla PowerWall installation in a home with air conditioning or other motors requires a SureStart installed.

The exception, of course, is most inverter compressors and inverter motors, which tend to have soft start built in, conveniently, and are obviously the way to go for new installs since they bring many other superior benefits (higher efficiency and quieter operation being the chief among them).

 

[Aaron]

I have a 240v well and I occasional have extended power outages. I want to hook up an inexpensive 3000w (6000 surge) US 240 split phase inverter or a 120v to a US split phase 240v voltage converter/transformer to an existing small backup solar system. The budget is $500 or I just will buy a small backup generator to run the pump. I already bought A 110/220 converter but it turned out to be for the European 220 single phase, as is every one I find on Amazon.

Your single phase inverter can be use to power One Single Phase Appliance/Well pump. Give it a go. If you want something else for your back up, look at the Sigineer inverters.
If you want a discount code for a Sigineer inverter, use the following codes: : For 3KW to 4KW inverters, use AaSGjian20, the to gets $20 off. For 6KW inverters. use AaSG35jian, to get $35 off. For 12-15KW inverters, useAaSG50jian, to get $50 off www.sigineer.com

 

[thedodgersonline]

Hi Savage.
I have a similiar challenge where my well is about 15m deep and I pump into a header tank about 3 metres off the ground. I built a small solar system (1.2kw solar panel / 6kw storage and 3kw off grid inverter) This lasts about 4 hours of full time pumping. I have now installed a 24V submersible pump taht does the same job and costs about AU$130. It runs directly off a solar panel and pumps about 8L a minute. It fill up the header tank in about 3 to 4 hours. Have a look at this and then the 240V can be a back up when you need to fill up in a hurry.

Amarine-made CA-0266 Submersible Deep Well Water Pump for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Amarine-made CA-0266 Submersible Deep Well Water Pump at the best online prices at eBay!

www.ebay.com.au

Regards

 

[-Geoff-]

There are transformers that are 120 volts primary and 120/240volt secondary.Such as this one. They do come in higher and lower ratings.
Something to keep in mind when looking for a transformer, and using it for a voltage other than what it was built for. The rating of it will change.
An example, a transformer with a name plate rating of 1kva with primary of 480 volts and a secondary of 240 volts has a 2:1 ratio. This example transformer could also be used to go from 240 to 120 or 120 to 240. But its rating will be lower then the rating on the label.

 

[Savage]

This should be easily handled by a single battery, and an inverter able to handle the startup amps. Figure 28 amps startup. A good 2000 watt inverter with low frequency surge would handle 6000watts. Or a cheaper 4000 watt with 8000watt surge should hold it.
And a 100 watt panel should be able to recharge the battery in most daylight conditions.

Why do you only need to run the pump 15minutes a day?

It would be a back up system for power failures at home, at 3 gallons a minutes for 15 minutes would be 45 gallons/day. I can live very comfortable on 45 gallons a day in an emergency. The biggest use would likely be toilets, I’m not run sure I even use 45 gallons a day under normal circumstances.

 

[Daybyday]

very helpful. Thanks.
‘this one might meet my needs to run a well pump off a 24 volt system.

3000 Watt 24 Volt to 120 / 240Vac Split Phase Pure Sine Inverter Charger

3000W Pure Sine Power Converter, converts 24V to 120V 240VAC. Built with smart battery charger of 50 amps. LF transformer inverter, 50Hz 60Hz output.

www.sigineer.com

Another brand OEM is sigineer who also have a 12VDC to 120/240 60hxz split phase inverter. I have not used Sigineer myself but know a couple of fellows that do and they love'm and you really can't beat the price. REF: https://www.sigineer.com/product/30...0vac-double-phase-pure-sine-inverter-charger/

 

[Daybyday]

A single battery? Seems to me that the surge current could be more than some single batteries could handle. For instance, my 24 v 50 ah battery will put out 70 amps peak for 2 minutes, 50 amps continuous. Would such a battery be able to handle the startup amps and the ongoing load? Thanks.

This should be easily handled by a single battery, and an inverter able to handle the startup amps. Figure 28 amps startup. A good 2000 watt inverter with low frequency surge would handle 6000watts. Or a cheaper 4000 watt with 8000watt surge should hold it.
And a 100 watt panel should be able to recharge the battery in most daylight conditions.

Why do you only need to run the pump 15minutes a day?

 

[thedodgersonline]

A single battery? Seems to me that the surge current could be more than some single batteries could handle. For instance, my 24 v 50 ah battery will put out 70 amps peak for 2 minutes, 50 amps continuous. Would such a battery be able to handle the startup amps and the ongoing load? Thanks.

Hi
I run a 1.5hp pump off my 48v system and the start up is over 2.5kW. Continuous is over 1.2kW. I highly doubt that one battery could handle that. Do the math and you will find that you will need nearly 200 amps for start up and about 100 amps continuous. To supply this you would need about 2000aH battery at 12V to handle that current. If you go to 48V it is more doable but costs rise exponentially then with the MPPT required to charge them as well as the solar array needed to supply the power to charge the battery.
I would still recommend the 12V submersible pump (see link in my previous response) Draws 4 amps and can pump over 70m head at 8 lpm (1.8 gph) this will more than adequately handle your needs. For safety you could install a small header tank and keep that always topped up to handle your needs while the pump is filling the tank.
Regards

 

[Daybyday]

Thanks for your thoughts.
Alas, I'm not in a position to use a relatively low voltage DC submersible pump, as my well head is about an eighth of a mile away, on my neighbors property. He (for good reasons) doesn't want me to have equipment like a solar installation there.

Hi
I run a 1.5hp pump off my 48v system and the start up is over 2.5kW. Continuous is over 1.2kW. I highly doubt that one battery could handle that. Do the math and you will find that you will need nearly 200 amps for start up and about 100 amps continuous. To supply this you would need about 2000aH battery at 12V to handle that current. If you go to 48V it is more doable but costs rise exponentially then with the MPPT required to charge them as well as the solar array needed to supply the power to charge the battery.
I would still recommend the 12V submersible pump (see link in my previous response) Draws 4 amps and can pump over 70m head at 8 lpm (1.8 gph) this will more than adequately handle your needs. For safety you could install a small header tank and keep that always topped up to handle your needs while the pump is filling the tank.
Regards

 

[Supervstech]

W

Hi
I run a 1.5hp pump off my 48v system and the start up is over 2.5kW. Continuous is over 1.2kW. I highly doubt that one battery could handle that. Do the math and you will find that you will need nearly 200 amps for start up and about 100 amps continuous. To supply this you would need about 2000aH battery at 12V to handle that current. If you go to 48V it is more doable but costs rise exponentially then with the MPPT required to charge them as well as the solar array needed to supply the power to charge the battery.
I would still recommend the 12V submersible pump (see link in my previous response) Draws 4 amps and can pump over 70m head at 8 lpm (1.8 gph) this will more than adequately handle your needs. For safety you could install a small header tank and keep that always topped up to handle your needs while the pump is filling the tank.
Regards

well... a 2000 watt load at 24v, is only 84amps... so... a single 24v battery should handle the surge needed...

 

[thedodgersonline]

Thanks for your thoughts.
Alas, I'm not in a position to use a relatively low voltage DC submersible pump, as my well head is about an eighth of a mile away, on my neighbors property. He (for good reasons) doesn't want me to have equipment like a solar installation there.

So what about having the 220V / 12V transformer on his property and the solar system / inverter / at your place. 4amps at 12 v will be minimal at your end. Just a thought.

 

[Ulmo]

Wait ... the idea is to have the highest voltage practical going long distances; the fact the well pump is 240VAC is more perfect. Whatever good pure sine wave inverter he can get that can handle the pump starting load (maybe with an added SoftStart on the pump) would be great. He wants a 240VAC output if the inverter already outputs 240VAC and the pump wants 240VAC. He doesn't care about split phase 240VAC if I understand properly, so the inverter can come with that or not (unless the well pump actually requires a middle-of-the-phase neutral, which isn't unheard of). Oh wait, I just reread the OP: it requires split phase; whatever -- get an inverter or inverter-transformer combo that has a middle-of-the-phase neutral. Fine. If all he can afford is a 120VAC inverter and a step up 1:2 transformer (120VAC to 240VAC with a split phase middle of the winding output on the 240VAC side (the :2 side in the 1:2 ratio)), then that's good too, if they're matched properly, of course, but I think 240VAC&120VAC split single phase output inverters aren't impossible to find and would be easier than specing out a transformer (see my link below). Either way, the only remaining question is if the starting load of the motor can be handled by the inverter in question. www.sigineer.com claims many (read the specs) of their inverters can handle 3x their continuous load just for starting. But some motors demand way more than 3x their continuous rating just to start up. It's best to check the motor carefully. If it still isn't enough power to start the motor and the motor doesn't have soft start installed (http://hypereng.com/), then I don't know how hard that would be to do, if the pump is already installed at the bottom of the well and would require a lot of plumbing work to deinstall and reinstall the motor (unless it has been designed for easy servicing, in which case that might not be so bad) (and whether or not HyperEng has the right soft start add-on for that motor type). Installing soft start may help out with making the motor able to start on a properly sized inverter for the task. It's unlikely most old well pumps in service today already have built in variable speed inverter soft start out of the box, even though I bet that's going to be standard in the future.

 

[Daybyday]

thanks, helpful. I’m going to borrow a clamp on ammeter to measure the surge and continuing current.

Wait ... the idea is to have the highest voltage practical going long distances; the fact the well pump is 240VAC is more perfect. Whatever good pure sine wave inverter he can get that can handle the pump starting load (maybe with an added SoftStart on the pump) would be great. He wants a 240VAC output if the inverter already outputs 240VAC and the pump wants 240VAC. He doesn't care about split phase 240VAC if I understand properly, so the inverter can come with that or not (unless the well pump actually requires a middle-of-the-phase neutral, which isn't unheard of). Oh wait, I just reread the OP: it requires split phase; whatever -- get an inverter or inverter-transformer combo that has a middle-of-the-phase neutral. Fine. If all he can afford is a 120VAC inverter and a step up 1:2 transformer (120VAC to 240VAC with a split phase middle of the winding output on the 240VAC side (the :2 side in the 1:2 ratio)), then that's good too, if they're matched properly, of course, but I think 240VAC&120VAC split single phase output inverters aren't impossible to find and would be easier than specing out a transformer (see my link below). Either way, the only remaining question is if the starting load of the motor can be handled by the inverter in question. www.sigineer.com claims many (read the specs) of their inverters can handle 3x their continuous load just for starting. But some motors demand way more than 3x their continuous rating just to start up. It's best to check the motor carefully. If it still isn't enough power to start the motor and the motor doesn't have soft start installed (http://hypereng.com/), then I don't know how hard that would be to do, if the pump is already installed at the bottom of the well and would require a lot of plumbing work to deinstall and reinstall the motor (unless it has been designed for easy servicing, in which case that might not be so bad) (and whether or not HyperEng has the right soft start add-on for that motor type). Installing soft start may help out with making the motor able to start on a properly sized inverter for the task. It's unlikely most old well pumps in service today already have built in variable speed inverter soft start out of the box, even though I bet that's going to be standard in the future.

 

[Ulmo]

thanks, helpful. I’m going to borrow a clamp on ammeter to measure the surge and continuing current.

Sounds good, but remember to compare it to other motors, because the clamp-on's have a response time that may be longer than the startup surge. Then each motor it compares to should have its own startup surge rating on the sticker. I forgot how to read those.

 

[Daybyday]

Good advice, thanks. I plan to look at the pump sticker. It’s a bit of a hike through the snow to get to it.

[b QUOTE="Ulmo, post: 41071, member: 528"]
Sounds good, but remember to compare it to other motors, because the clamp-on's have a response time that may be longer than the startup surge. Then each motor it compares to should have its own startup surge rating on the sticker. I forgot how to read those.
[/QUOTE]

 

[Hedges]

15 minutes a day.

In that case you may be better off with a much smaller pump, to be run several hours per day. It could be run direct off 24VDC. Either a suction pump if less than 25' down to the water, or a pump suspended above the highest water level or submersible.

It is rather expensive to make a several kW solution (surge for motor starting) and then run it only 1% of the time.

Another option for the larger pump is a 3-phase motor and variable frequency drive. They start very gently, no surge current.
That's what I put on my pool. But, I think it confuses my PV inverters with harmonics.
I did see a 12V 3-phase submersible pump from Graingers (I think) but it was quite expensive.

 

[offgriddle]

In that case you may be better off with a much smaller pump, to be run several hours per day. It could be run direct off 24VDC. Either a suction pump if less than 25' down to the water, or a pump suspended above the highest water level or submersible.

It is rather expensive to make a several kW solution (surge for motor starting) and then run it only 1% of the time.

Another option for the larger pump is a 3-phase motor and variable frequency drive. They start very gently, no surge current.
That's what I put on my pool. But, I think it confuses my PV inverters with harmonics.
I did see a 12V 3-phase submersible pump from Graingers (I think) but it was quite expensive.

"It is rather expensive to make a several kW solution (surge for motor starting) and then run it only 1% of the time". Very Well Put, Thank You!

 

[MichaelK]

I'm guessing that no-one here has ever pulled a well-pump hundreds of feet out of the ground. Statements like "just replace it with a soft-start pump" is sort of like leaning over the shoulder of a guy trying to tune his car, and telling him "why don't you just remove the engine and replace it with a new one".

It's absurd to me about how much guessing and speculation is going on here. Before I started installing a single watt of solar at my cabin, I had already determined exactly what my running and startup power needs were. To run my 1hp pump, I installed 4500W of panels, which can power the pump from about 8:30 in the morning till 4:30 in the afternoon. I'm using a Schneider split-phase 120/240V inverter. There's no way I'd ever attempt using a voltage converter on a smaller base system. Do it right, or don't do it at all! It's just too much work pulling a pump out of the ground!