I want to upgrade my system

[theAntihero]

New guy here, not sure what forum to put this in but I want to upgrade my system.



I've been off grid for over 25 years with the same general system : 4 trojan t-105s, a 12v Xantrex 1800w modified sine wave inverter and a small solar array of 400w of solar panels. It's worked well over the years but my batteries are in their end game and off grid technology has grown a lot so I'm considering something new.



We use very little power and the system has worked well. I have roughly 225ah and it's worked fine. I haven't really pushed a lot of solar because the woods are deep here and even in summer it's at best a few hours. Generator is used for my water pump and any other power needed that the solar doesn't cover



My original plan was to replace the inverter with a pure sine one and replace the batteries with whatever I researched and liked but I have a weird idea.



Slightly sideways but my dad is also off grid and uses an Anker 767 with expansion battery for his Oxygen accumulator 24-7 with running only that. It's always 400ish watts and he's been using it for a year and a half. It's had some small issues ( the Bluetooth and app system isn't always working. Sometimes the expansion battery takes a bit to start charging) but otherwise it's been good ( knock on wood).



So looking at it......how about just using that for my new system? We are talking basically lights, a LED TV for football, and a temporary little fridge because my propane one is done ( 110w dorm fridge). If I'm doing it right to compare apples to apples, it looks like the 767 alone is 170ah, and the expansion doubles it so 340ah is more than enough. I highly value something that has been tested and this has been in use in my presence a lot. The ability to move it.....could come in handy? Maybe if we decide on an extended TT trip it could power that. Maybe use it to power out band even.



I'm a bit disappointed to see that it's limited to 10amps in solar though, I see 20amps in summer, 8 in winter.



Anyone have any advice for my weird usage?

 

[Suijkerbuijk]

New guy here, not sure what forum to put this in but I want to upgrade my system.



I've been off grid for over 25 years with the same general system : 4 trojan t-105s, a 12v Xantrex 1800w modified sine wave inverter and a small solar array of 400w of solar panels. It's worked well over the years but my batteries are in their end game and off grid technology has grown a lot so I'm considering something new.



We use very little power and the system has worked well. I have roughly 225ah and it's worked fine. I haven't really pushed a lot of solar because the woods are deep here and even in summer it's at best a few hours. Generator is used for my water pump and any other power needed that the solar doesn't cover



My original plan was to replace the inverter with a pure sine one and replace the batteries with whatever I researched and liked but I have a weird idea.



Slightly sideways but my dad is also off grid and uses an Anker 767 with expansion battery for his Oxygen accumulator 24-7 with running only that. It's always 400ish watts and he's been using it for a year and a half. It's had some small issues ( the Bluetooth and app system isn't always working. Sometimes the expansion battery takes a bit to start charging) but otherwise it's been good ( knock on wood).



So looking at it......how about just using that for my new system? We are talking basically lights, a LED TV for football, and a temporary little fridge because my propane one is done ( 110w dorm fridge). If I'm doing it right to compare apples to apples, it looks like the 767 alone is 170ah, and the expansion doubles it so 340ah is more than enough. I highly value something that has been tested and this has been in use in my presence a lot. The ability to move it.....could come in handy? Maybe if we decide on an extended TT trip it could power that. Maybe use it to power out band even.



I'm a bit disappointed to see that it's limited to 10amps in solar though, I see 20amps in summer, 8 in winter.



Anyone have any advice for my weird usage?

You almost go for a new systeem .

Personal that small power station is not the way to go.
I have use one my self from a German brand .
And it have the same limit .
The solar charger is really limit by the mppt.
The reason is how that mppt works in that unit.
Its just to small to set that higher volt to a charge profile without Heating it up .
Other reason its limit by 10a is the car plug it have
A car plug have a limit of 10a 12 volt 120watts .

So personal i will not go that way for home use.

Personal i will go to normal lifepo4 battery .
Base on 24 volts and a inverter on 24volts .
If you are low power user on 120volts the 24 volts setup wil do the job.
The battery i will go for wil be one that is al ready 24volts it self and not go for 2x12 volts battery in series.
Reason out of balance by the bms in series by the battery it self

You use a old lead battery of 225ah .
That you only can use for 50% .
So a lifepo4 battery with the same 225ah will almost dubbele the energy you can use.

For the inverter self .
People use a lot of brands and you have to see what brands here in the forum are use .

Personal i will go for a Victron unit all in one unit.
Than you have the inverter and mmpt for the solar panels in one systeem.
Than again thare other great brands that are cheaper and works just fine and will do the job

The wire you do not need to replace only the fuse have to me replace .

Thare are a lot of discussion about that .
And the best fuse is a t-fuse but cost a lot .
A other model you can use are mrbf fuse .
Those are fine for 12/24 volts systeems..
If you go up to 36/48volts and higher than you do need a t-fuse.

 

[azjeff]

25 years you got on those batteries? Geezus. Well done!
Yes it’s well time for a battery upgrade and a big step into the future.
Your usage is extremely minor compared to most on this site.
I’m a big fan of living more with less.
I’d get a newer tech Lifepo4 battery, and see how the rest does. Are your solar panels also the same age? Newer panels could be a benefit as well. I’d be interested in hearing of your at that time near revolutionary costs of your solar equipment.

 

[theAntihero]

25 years you got on those batteries? Geezus. Well done!
Yes it’s well time for a battery upgrade and a big step into the future.
Your usage is extremely minor compared to most on this site.
I’m a big fan of living more with less.
I’d get a newer tech Lifepo4 battery, and see how the rest does. Are your solar panels also the same age? Newer panels could be a benefit as well. I’d be interested in hearing of your at that time near revolutionary costs of your solar equipment.

The batteries have been replaced twice , so I'm on my third set. These ones haven't lasted long though, which is another reason I want to move away from them. I replaced them in 2020 and the new ones were significantly lighter, which I'm guessing meant bad news.

Originally the batteries were actually very cheap, I wanna say $120 a set of 2? They still aren't too expensive but 4 years is not great especially since they are pretty babied. First set lasted 12 years, second 10, these ones will be lucky if they last 5. Apparently they don't make them like they used to.

First set of panels were very expensive, I wanna say 600 a piece for 50w panels. I still have them but they produce basically nothing. 15 years later I bought another cheap " knockoff" ( not my words) 100w for $400 and was very happy. 2 years ago I bought 4 100w panels off Amazon for $250ish total. Solar is kind of a zero sum since there is very little actual solar to be had. I considered getting a lot since they are cheap when I redid my system but really .......we don't use a lot of power.

Propane everything, well.....usually but my old fridge died after 25 years so tiny dorm fridge is the stop gap, wood heat and holding tanks for water so I use almost nothing power wise. I think I used an online calculator once and it said 14kw a month? When I did live in town on grid for a bit our power bill was basically nothing.

So I'm expecting answers that tell me to get a much bigger system but I don't really need it, 340ah is like...... multiple days even. I start up my generator every night anyway to pump up water, or run an AC for a bit if I need to, or even do the bigger loads so the batteries don't see them. My philosophy isn't that I have 225ah, how can I use them? It's more that I have 0ah and I don't want to use any more than I have to. A half gallon of gas a day isn't too much really.

But technology has advanced, and so must I. The Anker is an easy button I'm familiar with, and my old inverter won't charge LiFePo batteries so I'm looking at a new inverter anyway too. It's not that much different costwise from a system I could take places

 

[theAntihero]

Bump up to the top

 

[Rednecktek]

An Anker or Pecron system sure is easy and compact, but you're going to pay extra for it. It sounds like you've gotten your moneys worth out of your system so far.

I'd compare the Anker to the Pecron if you want to go that route. If you were up for rolling your own this sounds like the perfect place for a 3kw/24v system with a Growatt or PowMr 3kw 24v AIO. I recommend those particular units because of your shading issues. Many modern AIO's need upwards of 150v to start charging a 24v battery, but the Growatt and PowMr only need about 30v so a few used panels in parallel will make things work. A combiner box and some thick wire are the downsides, but not having to clear cut to get enough panels to even turn on is handy.

 

[theAntihero]

An Anker or Pecron system sure is easy and compact, but you're going to pay extra for it. It sounds like you've gotten your moneys worth out of your system so far.

I'd compare the Anker to the Pecron if you want to go that route. If you were up for rolling your own this sounds like the perfect place for a 3kw/24v system with a Growatt or PowMr 3kw 24v AIO. I recommend those particular units because of your shading issues. Many modern AIO's need upwards of 150v to start charging a 24v battery, but the Growatt and PowMr only need about 30v so a few used panels in parallel will make things work. A combiner box and some thick wire are the downsides, but not having to clear cut to get enough panels to even turn on is handy.

Thank you for replying

It looks like the Pecron is in the preorder stage? It looks like I could add multiple battery expansion packs although for me that's not a huge upside to me.

I admit the easiness of the Anker is a nice extra for me. I'm not a huge fan of the solar hookups so far but again.....limited solar.

 

[azjeff]

Like OP feared, the advice so far has tended to suggest going bigger. His needs are very modest. Probably just needs new batteries, non lead type so he can actually use more of the capacity.
Amazing and disappointing how his previous battery purchases have played out. 12 years of use from1st set, 10
Yes from second set, and now the current ones are already underperforming at 2 years time.
with 400 watts of recent solar panel purchases, and his admittedly very low demands, probably could just upgrade to better batteries and keep on keep’n on.
Edit to add….consider a chest freezer with an external temp controller as a fridge.
It’s a very efficient set up.. I’ve had a 5cu ft unit running since 8/21.
Zero problems and uses hardly any power. I run my entire trailer off a 1000 watt inverter.
400 watts of panel and 400ah of Lifepo4 battery.
I’ve had fridge, rice cooker, stereo and multiple fans all going at once off the inverter.
Plus phone and IPad charging off AC power strips.
all lighting is original OEM 12v with led bulbs swapped in place of old incandescents.

 

[Rednecktek]

I was thinking the Pecron 2000lfp as it's plenty big enough, has expansion batteries, and has been out and proven for a while. The 3600 would be overkill I think.

Yeah, better batteries and a decent MPPT controller would be the cheap & easy option.

 

[Q-Dog]

I personally don't like the all in one box for a "permanent" install, but they sure are convenient if you need to have power while on the go.

I think you could get by with just upgrading your batteries to LiFePO4. A couple of 100ah batteries may be all you need. The great thing about LiFePO4 is no watering and they don't care if they don't get a regular full charge. Bad thing is you may need to upgrade the solar charge controller, or maybe add a dedicated LiFePO4 charger if your existing chargers can't be adjusted to suitable parameters. Don't automagically think your old chargers won't work for new batteries. As long as they don't overcharge LiFePO4, you may be able to use them.

Since you have a component system you can upgrade/replace a piece at a time and a single component failure may not completely shut you down. With the Anker and other all in one box solutions, one component failure could mean you lose all of your power.

 

[littleharbor2]

Keep an eye on the "dorm fridge" consumption. They aren't necessarily super efficient.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Only thing I feel I can add is: could your upgrade replace some of that propane consumption - could additional light be had with some limbing/cutting?
A battery allows you to charge from generator in a short time, then run off the batteries all night.

 

[theAntihero]

Like OP feared, the advice so far has tended to suggest going bigger. His needs are very modest. Probably just needs new batteries, non lead type so he can actually use more of the capacity.
Amazing and disappointing how his previous battery purchases have played out. 12 years of use from1st set, 10
Yes from second set, and now the current ones are already underperforming at 2 years time.
with 400 watts of recent solar panel purchases, and his admittedly very low demands, probably could just upgrade to better batteries and keep on keep’n on.
Edit to add….consider a chest freezer with an external temp controller as a fridge.
It’s a very efficient set up.. I’ve had a 5cu ft unit running since 8/21.
Zero problems and uses hardly any power. I run my entire trailer off a 1000 watt inverter.
400 watts of panel and 400ah of Lifepo4 battery.
I’ve had fridge, rice cooker, stereo and multiple fans all going at once off the inverter.
Plus phone and IPad charging off AC power strips.
all lighting is original OEM 12v with led bulbs swapped in place of old incandescents.

Interesting, I hadn't even considered a chest freezer option, I'll definitely look into that more. Thanks

 

[theAntihero]

I was thinking the Pecron 2000lfp as it's plenty big enough, has expansion batteries, and has been out and proven for a while. The 3600 would be overkill I think.

Yeah, better batteries and a decent MPPT controller would be the cheap & easy option.

Admittedly the only reason I'm stuck on the Anker is because I've seen it work in my presence for awhile.

I'll look more indepth into the Pecron, I do see that it's limited on solar even more than the Anker though it's also cheaper from what I see.

 

[theAntihero]

I personally don't like the all in one box for a "permanent" install, but they sure are convenient if you need to have power while on the go.

I think you could get by with just upgrading your batteries to LiFePO4. A couple of 100ah batteries may be all you need. The great thing about LiFePO4 is no watering and they don't care if they don't get a regular full charge. Bad thing is you may need to upgrade the solar charge controller, or maybe add a dedicated LiFePO4 charger if your existing chargers can't be adjusted to suitable parameters. Don't automagically think your old chargers won't work for new batteries. As long as they don't overcharge LiFePO4, you may be able to use them.

Since you have a component system you can upgrade/replace a piece at a time and a single component failure may not completely shut you down. With the Anker and other all in one box solutions, one component failure could mean you lose all of your power.

All in one is definitely a concern there, being able to exchange one component is handy.

The charger/inverter is a Xantrex Tr1512 and it basically has 2 battery options for charging : lead acid and AGM.

 

[theAntihero]

Keep an eye on the "dorm fridge" consumption. They aren't necessarily super efficient.

This one is ok, 105w and it doesn't cycle too often.

I'm not ecstatic about it and want to replace it, the original idea was a much bigger propane fridge which actually requires a bit of kitchen remodel and is still a little while in the future

 

[Q-Dog]

All in one is definitely a concern there, being able to exchange one component is handy.

The charger/inverter is a Xantrex Tr1512 and it basically has 2 battery options for charging : lead acid and AGM

Find the actual charging parameters in real numbers for your unit. There are some LiFePO4 batteries that claim "drop in" compatability with lead acid. the parameters are NOT hugely different from lead.

 

[OffGridForGood]

is propane cheap in Idaho?
I liked it for the generator, not so much for fridge and heating. but propane is expensive in my area.

 

[theAntihero]

Only thing I feel I can add is: could your upgrade replace some of that propane consumption - could additional light be had with some limbing/cutting?
A battery allows you to charge from generator in a short time, then run off the batteries all night.

Maybe, but when I say deep woods, I mean the neighbor would have to clear out several acres to get me more power. It's substantially harder than a bit of limbing.

So essentially I either burn propane or gas in a generator to charge up batteries

 

[theAntihero]

Find the actual charging parameters in real numbers for your unit. There are some LiFePO4 batteries that claim "drop in" compatability with lead acid. the parameters are NOT hugely different from lead.

Interesting, I'll look into it more.

 

[theAntihero]

is propane cheap in Idaho?
I liked it for the generator, not so much for fridge and heating. but propane is expensive in my area.

If I use small bottles it's about $3.00 a gallon and half that if I get a big tank and have it filled.

The fridge uses about 4.5 gallons a month

 

[littleharbor2]

This one is ok, 105w and it doesn't cycle too often.

I'm not ecstatic about it and want to replace it, the original idea was a much bigger propane fridge which actually requires a bit of kitchen remodel and is still a little while in the future

My 14 cu ft home refer uses 80 watts when running, by comparison.
Starting from warm or putting a bunch of warm beers/sodas/water in will cause it to run steadily for hours till it gets down to a stable cold temp.

 

[Suijkerbuijk]

All in one is definitely a concern there, being able to exchange one component is handy.

The charger/inverter is a Xantrex Tr1512 and it basically has 2 battery options for charging : lead acid and AGM.

You only have 400watts panels .
So a victron 100/20 model will do the job just fine.
You do overpanel the mppt with 140watt on 12 volts.
But that is not a problem for the victron.


If you stay on 12 volts your old inverster still can be use.
Than lipo4 battery on the ah you need .

Worning see your inverter max amp it can use.
That amp have to be the same for the bms of the lifepo4 battery.
Lead battery do not have a bms so you can pull more out of it.
Normal a good lifepo4 battery ah is the same that you can pull 24/7 .
So 100ah lifepo4 do 100a .
If your inverter need 150a you need a 150Ah lifepo4 battery .
If you pull out side the inverter like a 12volts lights, car radio so on.
You need to see what it use an calculation by that inverter.
So 150a inverter + 10 car radio and so on.
Just that you never have the problem
That you use vacuüm cleaner and car radio and pull more than the bms can handel and shut down the battery.
This is drowback of a lifepo4 .

Than your 50watts panels.
Just set them in series so the volts come up and hook it on a second mppt .
This way you can use them .
I think those are the old 18volt panels that is use for the old pwm controller that had is limit in pv in put.
That limit do not have a mppt .
Means if you use a 100/20 mppt.
You can set those panels is series or series/parallel combine.
Just stick them on a pole and turn them to the sun.

 

[Rednecktek]

40a MPPT to maximize your panel capability and not run anything at 100% load.

A 20a would max out before you can get 400w through there. Many brands out there will turn Solar DC into battery DC.

225ah of lead is about the same usable capacity as a 100-150ah LFP. A 200ah with a 200a BMS would have more capacity than your lead on its best day AND have enough oomph to feed your inverter at full load.

 

[HighDesertDrifter]

Find the actual charging parameters in real numbers for your unit. There are some LiFePO4 batteries that claim "drop in" compatability with lead acid. the parameters are NOT hugely different from lead.

Good thoughts. I use an Out Back FM 80 which has no Pre set charge parameters for LifePO4, but has all the manual adjustments for optimal charging profiles. I really love these units and am sold on them.
This is the kind of equipment you see working great 15 + years out.
I just upgraded my self from Lead acid to Life Po4 of 300 ah of 24 v on a 3s /2p solar array of used $35 Trina panels gives me more than enough (6 hrs sun average) to run full size apartment Frig/freezer, a small upright freezer, a swamp cooler, all electronics / lights in house and a 1 hp shallow well pump. All without pulling batteries low much at all unless several very cloudy days in a row which are infrequent here. They still stay at or above 20% just before sun up even on cloudy days.

I was so impressed by the increase in battery technology with these batteries and how much they out preform any lead acid / old school stuff. 100 ah 24 volt LifePo4 x3 for about $1300!
They live in the house with me so temps are controlled which will help prolong their life.

With the help from members on this forum I was able to quickly figure out the best charging profile for my new LifePo4's and feel confident they will out last me. (I am an old geezer!) hahaha! No maintenance but checking lugs say twice a year!
You got to love it!
Best wishes with your new upgrade!
Glad to see others who still love simplicity...