I WARNED YOU ALL! MB31/MB30 huge issue terminal snapping off

[sailingharry]

The cells in sailingharry's picture don't have the red/blue dots on them. My cells from Amy @ Luyuan do. If what you said is true (that cell terminals with red/blue dots are put on by EVE) then whatever third party put the terminals on his cells, they aren't up to the quality of what EVE is putting on.

My cells came from 18650batterystore, which seemed to be a reputable supplier. I've now learned that they don't have the dots, and they don't have the helicoil inserts (and yes, I partially stripped one hole using a torque wrench -- I've now bought longer screws for these terminals with more "stuff" on top). So it seems 18650 isn't supplying genuine EVE terminals. Lesson learned (of course, I won't be buying cells from ANYONE for years to come, hopefully, so not a useful lesson).

@sailingharry , I recall you were having trouble sourcing busbars for between the cells terminals. Did you use the busbars that came with the cells or did you get busbars that covered all three cells at once?

I can't tell from your picture if that's a three-cell busbar or two two-cell busbars.

I worked up a bus bar solution I'm pretty happy with. All from AliExpress, but they seem pretty much up to spec. What I did was:
* The ends (and the middle, where I did a U-Turn in the pack) have a 4-cell bar that I cut to 3 (they don't sell a 3). These should take modest current -- since each cell is providing only about 100A of the 300A design load, that's not hard to carry. And the bars are fairly thick.
* The U-Turn is connected by a 4/0 cable between the middle cells. This keeps me from having a bus bar carry the entire 300A load, which none I could find appear to be up to.
* The easy ones are the straight across terminals. I bought end-to-end style bars, which aren't overly thick but are quite wide, and since each cell has one, they are only seeing 100A each -- easy peasy. I paralleled them with the 18650 provided 2-cell bars, and "staggered" them -- parallel cells 1 and 2 on one pack, and 2 and 3 on the next pack, so that all 3 are paralleled but I don't end up with a 3-bar high stack. The 18650 bars are the least capable bars in the pack, but in these connections the paralleling currents should be very close to zero (in theory, exactly zero), so it's not an issue.
* I'm really impressed with the flexibility of these "flexible" bus bars. I really didn't think they would be as flexible as they are.
* A key part of making this work was how to connect a 4/0 to the cells with this 2-hole terminal. I found these lugs that are a near-perfect fit -- it took 2 minutes with a round file to adjust the hole spacing to fit. https://www.zoro.com/zoro-select-two-hole-lug-compress-connector-40-awg-24c425/i/G4665315/

My plan, after a night to sleep on it?
I have an email in to 18650 to see if they will do anything at all. I am not expecting anything, but it's worth asking. If the answer is "sucks to be you," my plan is to remove another 2 cells and drop to a 8 cell bank. In another thread, I was regretting buying 12, as it really is too much for my current needs. My original plan, had I bought 8, was to build the entire pack for 12 and insert 4 wood "cells" to allow for easy upgrade to 12 cells in the future if my needs increased (I don't have AirCon on the boat, but if I ever do 12 cells might get me through the night). SO, I've been "redirected" to my original plan, just with a $400 surcharge. I'll keep the 2 good cells and monitor charge level as spares or for the future upgrade.

 

[HRTKD]

I should have specified why I was asking about the busbars. It wasn't clear from the picture which busbars you were using. If it was the two-cell busbars then one of the busbar would have been stacked on top of the other busbar. I was thinking this could have created some tension on the cell terminal.

Since you're not using two-cell busbars, there shouldn't have been any tension.

It's likely that the cells are actually from EVE. The terminals aren't and 18650 may have screwed the pooch on who they sourced these from.

 

[ksmithaz1]

I doubt very much that they would be fine if dropped off a 2 story building. Don't be silly.

I dunno, that pink foam is pretty good stuff, and it's completely wrapped on all sides and we are dropping a battery, not something particularly fragile. I'd guess it could very well be just fine dropped from 20 feet, depending on if it hit something strange like a post.

 

[HRTKD]

"Drop if from a second story building" was a rhetorical attempt at touting the packaging.

 

[ksmithaz1]

"Drop if from a second story building" was a rhetorical attempt at touting the packaging.

Indeed, I believe you are correct, however, boxes fall from the conveyors all the time. Packages are supposed to be wrapped to take an 8' drop anyway. I think it's 'likely' a box of batteries wrapped in that foam would be fine after getting dropped from 20 ft. Not saying it's a good idea, just saying it would probably survive intact and functional.

 

[PVGeezer]

ISTA (international safe transport association) has standardized testing for packaging. The packages are dropped multiple times on different sides/corners. The height of the drops varies with the weight of the packaging, with heavier packages tested at lower heights. I think the drop height for a 4 pack of EVE cells is 18 inches. None of the tests involves anything like a 20 ft drop and no manufacturer is going to spend the money on packaging that survives that kind of drop, if they bother to get their packaging tested at all.

Ista drop test

 

[SparkyJJO]

I would not expect a cell to survive a 20 ft drop regardless of packaging.

 

[robbob2112]

Well

I looked on the official EVE website and there is nothing about the red/blue dot -- so maybe that was a red hering --- if you look on their store website they have pictures without the dots...

I am of the opinion the most recent breakage was pure torque from the large 4/0 cable in the picture. Those are stiff even if they are welding wire.





I can't figure out what you are doing with a 3 position bus bar? Are you going to drill and tap the 3 cell terminals that broke off and bolt to them wih the bus bar somehow?

 

[HRTKD]

I can't figure out what you are doing with a 3 position bus bar?

Three cells in parallel to make 3p4s.

 

[Stircrazy]

My cells came from 18650batterystore, which seemed to be a reputable supplier. I've now learned that they don't have the dots, and they don't have the helicoil inserts (and yes, I partially stripped one hole using a torque wrench -- I've now bought longer screws for these terminals with more "stuff" on top). So it seems 18650 isn't supplying genuine EVE terminals. Lesson learned (of course, I won't be buying cells from ANYONE for years to come, hopefully, so not a useful lesson).

yet my cells from 185650 do have the inserts in them and are the genuine eve attached ones. mine were the 304Ah cells if that makes a difference though.

 

[Coydon]

yet my cells from 185650 do have the inserts in them and are the genuine eve attached ones. mine were the 304Ah cells if that makes a difference though.

Watching prices on prismatics at 18650 recently, they dropped the price on the 304s to match that of the 280s a couple of weeks back. There had been a $5 difference. Odd that they would do that if the 304s are the ones with the good terminals, or even if both have good terminals.

 

[740GLE]

yet my cells from 185650 do have the inserts in them and are the genuine eve attached ones. mine were the 304Ah cells if that makes a difference though.

When did you buy them? It wasn’t until recently that they started delivering non insert terminals.

And so far I don’t think any complaints have been made about 18650 selling 280k cells with weak welds.

 

[ghostwriter66]

sorry bank wire transfers only due to location and government.

Not sure how that makes sense ... so how does your local govt prevent you from getting on the Aliexpress website and paying via Credit Card?? Or you using a VPN ?? I love my fellow little Chinese dues and dudettes - but I trust them as far as I could throw you.

 

[ghostwriter66]

exactly, thats why i was dancing about so much looking at different vendors and asking so many questions. guess it got on their nerves... thankfully winston was like warranty guranteed, shipping damage? real no BS insurance that covers it... you pay for the perks i guess.

Again though - since you have never had an issue with WINSTON you really don't know how they would act if you said you got a broken one until ... you got a broken one ... I know 1000% how VISA and MASTERCARD works for our company - I get a broken or really dented battery - I contact vender -- tell him what the issue is and need to know how he is going to need to fix it -- and then 48 hours later I contact the CC company and start a refund .... THAT stops 100% of the BS and normally the vender is popping me a battery out ASAP to replace the one messed up ...

 

[ghostwriter66]

Watching prices on prismatics at 18650 recently, they dropped the price on the 304s to match that of the 280s a couple of weeks back. There had been a $5 difference. Odd that they would do that if the 304s are the ones with the good terminals, or even if both have good terminals.

We are now getting 330Ah at the old 280Ah prices -- Trump is about to put a huge tariff on all of this and the Chinese would rather make a little of something than a lot of nothing ... we are going to look back at this moment in time and go "man we should have been buyig tons of batteries during this period" - which is exactly what I/we are doing ...

 

[Coydon]

What is the supposed benefit of the double terminals over single posts in the first place?

 

[42OhmsPA]

Trump is about to put a huge tariff on all of this

Source?

 

[740GLE]

Source?

Prob the same high school kid who went to elons summer camp last year and is sending out emails from OPM.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Not sure how that makes sense ... so how does your local govt prevent you from getting on the Aliexpress website bank transfers inlyand paying via Credit Card?? Or you using a VPN ?? I love my fellow little Chinese dues and dudettes - but I trust them as far as I could throw you.

Winston does not do credit cards

Again though - since you have never had an issue with WINSTON you really don't know how they would act if you said you got a broken one until ... you got a broken one ... I know 1000% how VISA and MASTERCARD works for our company - I get a broken or really dented battery - I contact vender -- tell him what the issue is and need to know how he is going to need to fix it -- and then 48 hours later I contact the CC company and start a refund .... THAT stops 100% of the BS and normally the vender is popping me a battery out ASAP to replace the one messed up ...

True but I have had issues with other cells... your point being? are you a shill for someone?

 

[Stircrazy]

When did you buy them? It wasn’t until recently that they started delivering non insert terminals.

And so far I don’t think any complaints have been made about 18650 selling 280k cells with weak welds.

last summer I got the 304AH cells

 

[Stircrazy]

Watching prices on prismatics at 18650 recently, they dropped the price on the 304s to match that of the 280s a couple of weeks back. There had been a $5 difference. Odd that they would do that if the 304s are the ones with the good terminals, or even if both have good terminals.

I just noticed that with the latest overall price drop. could just be because 280ah cells are not selling as much or the 304's are selling more so the purchase volume adjusts the price.

 

[Stircrazy]

We are now getting 330Ah at the old 280Ah prices -- Trump is about to put a huge tariff on all of this and the Chinese would rather make a little of something than a lot of nothing ... we are going to look back at this moment in time and go "man we should have been buyig tons of batteries during this period" - which is exactly what I/we are doing ...

the terrif is on automotive cells. we should be ok unless he changes his mind again

 

[niktak11]

Wtf that came off like nothing. I'm guessing they are third party or a bad batch. I have 32 of those cells from 18650batterystore (16 each from two different batches) and none of them showed any signs of loosening at 6Nm torque.

 

[ghostwriter66]

Source?

SERIOUSLY?? I'm going to assume you don't have GOOGLE or YOUTUBE or CABLE TV... OR RADIO... Its like being talked about every time he says anything ...

The commerce secretary stated that one of the hardest hit industries will be the EV and rechargeable battery sectors since Trump has lifted any and all FEDERAL EV requirements and sees no need to help subsidize solar anything.

Trump has said numerous times that he could see tariffs on Chinese materials and manufactured goods being as high as 100%.

US battery market faces possible ‘significant tariff impacts’: Clean Energy Associates

With limited production capacity outside China, the consultancy’s Q4 2024 report sees heavily tariffed Chinese production setting the market price for lithium-iron-phosphate batteries over the next two years.

www.utilitydive.com

How Trump’s tariffs could drive up the cost of batteries, EVs, and more

The incoming administration’s hostile trade plans threaten to slow the shift to cleaner industries, boost inflation, and stall the economy.

www.technologyreview.com

Trump's threatened additional 10% China tariff would hit BESS sector

Donald Trump has threatened to impose an additional 10% tariff on all goods from China on his first day in office.

www.energy-storage.news

https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/trump-aides-target-critical-areas-import-duties-washington-post-reports-2025-01-06/

Tariff Tango: Trump’s Trade Moves to Shake Up Global Markets

Capstone believes Trump will prioritize tariffs on products imported from China and will move forward with a 10%-20% universal tariff.

capstonedc.com

Trump re-election signals uncertainties for China’s EV and battery industry amid potential policy shifts and tariffs

Uncover the potential impact of Trump's second presidency on China’s electric vehicle and battery industry, according to market participants

www.fastmarkets.com

and there is about 1000 more of these ...

AS IO have said before -- and having just received another shipment of 794 batteries for work - a year from now people will look back and say - wow - should have stocked up ...

and PLEASE don't give the BS that "American battery manufactures" will step up -- blah blah blah ....

 

[42OhmsPA]

SERIOUSLY?? I'm going to assume you don't have GOOGLE

I don't use google, prefer duckduckgo and brave.

or YOUTUBE

For entertainment

or CABLE TV

Nope canceled it years ago.

... OR RADIO...

A few good stations / shows remain.

Its like being talked about every time he says anything ...

Key word being 'talked'

The commerce secretary stated that one of the hardest hit industries will be the EV and rechargeable battery sectors since Trump has lifted any and all FEDERAL EV requirements and sees no need to help subsidize solar anything.

Everything I've seen has been focused on EVs.

Trump has said numerous times that he could see tariffs on Chinese materials and manufactured goods being as high as 100%.

Speculation for now.

US battery market faces possible ‘significant tariff impacts’: Clean Energy Associates

With limited production capacity outside China, the consultancy’s Q4 2024 report sees heavily tariffed Chinese production setting the market price for lithium-iron-phosphate batteries over the next two years.

www.utilitydive.com

How Trump’s tariffs could drive up the cost of batteries, EVs, and more

The incoming administration’s hostile trade plans threaten to slow the shift to cleaner industries, boost inflation, and stall the economy.

www.technologyreview.com

Trump's threatened additional 10% China tariff would hit BESS sector

Donald Trump has threatened to impose an additional 10% tariff on all goods from China on his first day in office.

www.energy-storage.news

https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/trump-aides-target-critical-areas-import-duties-washington-post-reports-2025-01-06/

Tariff Tango: Trump’s Trade Moves to Shake Up Global Markets

Capstone believes Trump will prioritize tariffs on products imported from China and will move forward with a 10%-20% universal tariff.

capstonedc.com

Trump re-election signals uncertainties for China’s EV and battery industry amid potential policy shifts and tariffs

Uncover the potential impact of Trump's second presidency on China’s electric vehicle and battery industry, according to market participants

www.fastmarkets.com

and there is about 1000 more of these ...

Lots of speculations and possibilities.

AS IO have said before -- and having just received another shipment of 794 batteries for work - a year from now people will look back and say - wow - should have stocked up ...

We will see what happens. Regardless I plan to pull the trigger on more cells here shortly.

and PLEASE don't give the BS that "American battery manufactures" will step up -- blah blah blah ....

Well AESC does have 2 gigafactories under construction. There are others as well.

Thank you for taking the time to reply.