I WARNED YOU ALL! MB31/MB30 huge issue terminal snapping off

[PVGeezer]

Talk and speculation, sure. But I for one decided not to take a tariff risk and ordered 100 MB31 cells and 6 battery boxes from Amy @ Luyuan so they would clear customs in CA prior to Jan 20. They did, just.

I received the boxes, Seplos BMS's, active balancers, and heat pads here in VA yesterday. Initial inspection all looks good. I'll report on the cells/terminals when I receive and have a chance to inspect them, hopefully early next week.

BTW, not sure if everyone knows this of not but if you order an international shipment using the DDP incoterm the shipper is responsible for all transportation costs, customs duties, and taxes, so any tariff hikes would be at their risk.

 

[sailingharry]

Just a follow up on 18650. I sent them an email on Sunday morning, and here it is Wednesday evening. The email wasn't antagonistic or mean, basically "here's what happened, what are my options." I'd have been thrilled with a "sorry, we are shipping two more." I'd have been happy with "we can offer you two at half price." I'd even have been OK with an email explaining that batteries should be handled with care.

However, 18650 hasn't even said "sucks to be you." They have completely ignored me (I should have known -- I tried to ask a couple questions about these terminals before ordering, email was ignored and the chap who answered the phone may not have known what a "terminal" was!).

They aren't my favorite supplier at this point. I'll be sharing this story to anyone who will listen for a while going forward. A simple response would have been the right thing for them to do.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

BTW, not sure if everyone knows this of not but if you order an international shipment using the DDP incoterm the shipper is responsible for all transportation costs, customs duties, and taxes, so any tarriff hikes would be at their risk.

It's been mentioned a few times - this is the wiki entry on it:

Incoterms

When you buy something from e.g. Alibaba, handling of goods are covered by international trade regulations. For the transport and delivery of goods from seller to buyer, these are called Incoterms, and are a set of defined and published terms by the International Chamber of Commerce and can...

diysolarforum.com

 

[Coydon]

I think anyone predicting the outcome of one of Trump's trade negotiations is using one of those magick 8-ball things...

Also, I'd think anyone interested in understanding and moving forward with the reality we are faced with would be asking if 'rejected' EV cells would be grouped in with proposed EV tariffs rather than making alarmist fear mongering statements about assumed outcomes.

 

[Coydon]

Just a follow up on 18650. I sent them an email on Sunday morning, and here it is Wednesday evening. The email wasn't antagonistic or mean, basically "here's what happened, what are my options." I'd have been thrilled with a "sorry, we are shipping two more." I'd have been happy with "we can offer you two at half price." I'd even have been OK with an email explaining that batteries should be handled with care.

However, 18650 hasn't even said "sucks to be you." They have completely ignored me (I should have known -- I tried to ask a couple questions about these terminals before ordering, email was ignored and the chap who answered the phone may not have known what a "terminal" was!).

They aren't my favorite supplier at this point. I'll be sharing this story to anyone who will listen for a while going forward. A simple response would have been the right thing for them to do.

Things seem to be problematic there lately. No problem getting a replacement cell two years ago when the one I was shipped arrived leaking fluid, but when I asked for advice on how to handle the replacement cell that had started swelling recently, three conversations with promises of response were given. Two months and counting, not a word.

 

[740GLE]

SERIOUSLY?? I'm going to assume you don't have GOOGLE or YOUTUBE or CABLE TV... OR RADIO... Its like being talked about every time he says anything ...

The commerce secretary stated that one of the hardest hit industries will be the EV and rechargeable battery sectors since Trump has lifted any and all FEDERAL EV requirements and sees no need to help subsidize solar anything.

Trump has said numerous times that he could see tariffs on Chinese materials and manufactured goods being as high as 100%.

US battery market faces possible ‘significant tariff impacts’: Clean Energy Associates

With limited production capacity outside China, the consultancy’s Q4 2024 report sees heavily tariffed Chinese production setting the market price for lithium-iron-phosphate batteries over the next two years.

www.utilitydive.com

How Trump’s tariffs could drive up the cost of batteries, EVs, and more

The incoming administration’s hostile trade plans threaten to slow the shift to cleaner industries, boost inflation, and stall the economy.

www.technologyreview.com

Trump's threatened additional 10% China tariff would hit BESS sector

Donald Trump has threatened to impose an additional 10% tariff on all goods from China on his first day in office.

www.energy-storage.news

https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/trump-aides-target-critical-areas-import-duties-washington-post-reports-2025-01-06/

Tariff Tango: Trump’s Trade Moves to Shake Up Global Markets

Capstone believes Trump will prioritize tariffs on products imported from China and will move forward with a 10%-20% universal tariff.

capstonedc.com

Trump re-election signals uncertainties for China’s EV and battery industry amid potential policy shifts and tariffs

Uncover the potential impact of Trump's second presidency on China’s electric vehicle and battery industry, according to market participants

www.fastmarkets.com

and there is about 1000 more of these ...

AS IO have said before -- and having just received another shipment of 794 batteries for work - a year from now people will look back and say - wow - should have stocked up ...

and PLEASE don't give the BS that "American battery manufactures" will step up -- blah blah blah ....

He also is taking advice from Elon which has a bit of a history of over promising and under delivering, wait wasn’t Mexico paying for the wall and the Ukraine war was to end first day in office?

I guess they make a good pair.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Well he's made good on more campaign promises in the first week than most in recent history.
I don't think anyone really thought he could end Ukraine war just like that. That's ultimately up to the fool and punk over there. Maybe we won't be feeding all our resources into that black hole anymore though. That'll help stop it faster I suppose.

 

[Stircrazy]

Things seem to be problematic there lately. No problem getting a replacement cell two years ago when the one I was shipped arrived leaking fluid, but when I asked for advice on how to handle the replacement cell that had started swelling recently, three conversations with promises of response were given. Two months and counting, not a word.

I had one sell that was cosmetically damaged (most likely from the factory) after I told them I paid for nice shiny new cells not 3 nice shiny ones and one dinted and scratched one, then sent me out a brand new one and told me to keep the damaged one as a back up or what ever.

they did take a few days between emails, I just assumed they are busy ...

 

[Coydon]

I had one sell that was cosmetically damaged (most likely from the factory) after I told them I paid for nice shiny new cells not 3 nice shiny ones and one dinted and scratched one, then sent me out a brand new one and told me to keep the damaged one as a back up or what ever.

they did take a few days between emails, I just assumed they are busy ...

Yeah, the initial response under warranty was everything I could have expected.

They were under no obligation after a couple of years to address my issue, but I was mostly looking for advice on a replacement cell I was planning to buy from them (I didn't even hint I was looking for a freebie). After they promised a response multiple times and didn't follow up, I'm thinking Docan looks like the outlet to prioritize, especially if they have the regular posts...

 

[ghostwriter66]

Talk and speculation, sure. But I for one decided not to take a tariff risk and ordered 100 MB31 cells and 6 battery boxes from Amy @ Luyuan so they would clear customs in CA prior to Jan 20. They did, just.

I received the boxes, Seplos BMS's, active balancers, and heat pads here in VA yesterday. Initial inspection all looks good. I'll report on the cells/terminals when I receive and have a chance to inspect them, hopefully early next week.

BTW, not sure if everyone knows this of not but if you order an international shipment using the DDP incoterm the shipper is responsible for all transportation costs, customs duties, and taxes, so any tariff hikes would be at their risk.

"Technically" you are correct -- BUT - and this has happened to us more than a couple of times previously -- we have something sent DDP -- door to door -- it hits LA PORT and this or that custom fee or tax is higher than they had quoted ,,,, so they call/email you and say that unfortunately that a fee or procedure outside of the quoted condition occurred and that they need $XXX more ... and payment needs to be received prior to customs release or they will need to send the shipment back to the originator and you will need to contact the seller for either a re-quote or reimbursement. Of course 99.9% of us have been waiting for 3 months to get the bloody thing in - and of course the charge is legitimate -- so we pay it ...

 

[PVGeezer]

"Technically" you are correct -- BUT - and this has happened to us more than a couple of times previously -- we have something sent DDP -- door to door -- it hits LA PORT and this or that custom fee or tax is higher than they had quoted ,,,, so they call/email you and say that unfortunately that a fee or procedure outside of the quoted condition occurred and that they need $XXX more ... and payment needs to be received prior to customs release or they will need to send the shipment back to the originator and you will need to contact the seller for either a re-quote or reimbursement. Of course 99.9% of us have been waiting for 3 months to get the bloody thing in - and of course the charge is legitimate -- so we pay it ...

Yeah, the DDP Incoterm protects the buyer from being responsible for the additional customs duty. It doesn't necessarily mean the seller will actually pay it. And that's fair, you can't expect a seller to cover a sudden huge tariff increase if that was to occur.

So using it gets you better protection than purchasing goods using any other Incoterm, which is why I suggested it, but there is still substantial risk when the international trade situation is volatile like it is right now.

That's why I still wanted my shipment to clear customs prior 20 Jan, and was quite relieved when it did.

 

[PVGeezer]

I picked up my MB31 cells from Luyuan today. The 4 cell boxes were stacked 3 high on the pallet. Packed inside the outer box was an inner box with foam around it. The inner box was on its side which would reduce the stress on the terminals.

The terminals have the red and black dots and the threaded inserts. So I guess that tends to confirm that the red and black dots indicate that the terminals were installed by EVE rather than by a third party.

So far so good. I haven't inspected all the cells yet and will report any discrepancies that show up during my full inspection and battery box assembly.

 

[robbob2112]

I picked up my MB31 cells from Luyuan today. The 4 cell boxes were stacked 3 high on the pallet. Packed inside the outer box was an inner box with foam around it. The inner box was on its side which would reduce the stress on the terminals.

The terminals have the red and black dots and the threaded inserts. So I guess that tends to confirm that the red and black dots indicate that the terminals were installed by EVE rather than by a third party.

So far so good. I haven't inspected all the cells yet and will report any discrepancies that show up during my full inspection and battery box assembly.

red and blue dots

 

[PVGeezer]

red and blue dots

Very dark blue maybe

 

[robbob2112]

Very dark blue maybe

Interesting - black dot that looked like someone took a pen to it.

 

[Brucey]

Interesting - black dot that looked like someone took a pen to it.

Fake terminal guys are ordering a bunch of felt tip pens. Fortunately its harder to fake the threaded inserts.

 

[PVGeezer]

Interesting - black dot that looked like someone took a pen to it.

The other posts with photos of "EVE welded" terminals in this thread also appear to be red and black. Did someone get blue dots?

Guess it depends on what felt pens were available at the local 7-11 that day.

And yes there are thousands of 7-11s in China.

 

[Alkaline]

I picked up my MB31 cells from Luyuan today. The 4 cell boxes were stacked 3 high on the pallet. Packed inside the outer box was an inner box with foam around it. The inner box was on its side which would reduce the stress on the terminals.

The terminals have the red and black dots and the threaded inserts. So I guess that tends to confirm that the red and black dots indicate that the terminals were installed by EVE rather than by a third party.

So far so good. I haven't inspected all the cells yet and will report any discrepancies that show up during my full inspection and battery box assembly.

So EVE does have MB31 with official terminals. Avoid the sellers with knock off terminals then. Luyuan has always been a reliable vendor.

 

[Sam Cho TX]

Just a follow up on 18650. I sent them an email on Sunday morning, and here it is Wednesday evening. The email wasn't antagonistic or mean, basically "here's what happened, what are my options." I'd have been thrilled with a "sorry, we are shipping two more." I'd have been happy with "we can offer you two at half price." I'd even have been OK with an email explaining that batteries should be handled with care.

However, 18650 hasn't even said "sucks to be you." They have completely ignored me (I should have known -- I tried to ask a couple questions about these terminals before ordering, email was ignored and the chap who answered the phone may not have known what a "terminal" was!).

They aren't my favorite supplier at this point. I'll be sharing this story to anyone who will listen for a while going forward. A simple response would have been the right thing for them to do.

That is what they do, they ghost you and ignore because they think they are too big. I got 304 cells that tested to 267 and they did not do a damn thing about it: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/eve-304-cells-from-18650batterystore-zke-40-testing.60568/page-3

Avoid 18650batterystore.com

 

[OffGridForGood]

I picked up my MB31 cells from Luyuan today. The 4 cell boxes were stacked 3 high on the pallet. Packed inside the outer box was an inner box with foam around it. The inner box was on its side which would reduce the stress on the terminals.

The terminals have the red and black dots and the threaded inserts. So I guess that tends to confirm that the red and black dots indicate that the terminals were installed by EVE rather than by a third party.

So far so good. I haven't inspected all the cells yet and will report any discrepancies that show up during my full inspection and battery box assembly.

scan some of the QR codes - see what comes up

 

[PVGeezer]

scan some of the QR codes - see what comes up

Haven't done that yet but we did pull out all 100 cells today, checked voltages and inspected for terminal and case damage. None found. Voltages were all 3.295-3.297. The EVE box labels I looked at showed a Dec 2024 manufacturing date.

In looking at how the cells were packed I can see why shipping in the EVE boxes only could cause terminal damage. There is no foam over the terminals themselves, just that narrow strip of foam running between the terminals. And it's pretty soft foam.

When I was designing packaging for PV modules we put g force monitors on the pallets to see what accelerations they were subjected to during truck shipping and handling. 2 g's was quite common. If you have 3 layers of EVE cell boxes on a pallet and subject that pallet to 2 g's the bottom layer of cells is going to see 200 lbs of force (50lbs per box x 2 boxes x 2g's). I think 200 lbs can easily compress that thin strip of pink foam resulting in the terminals getting crushed.

So Luyuan's approach of laying the EVE box on its side inside an outer box is not only going to add the stiffness of another layer of cardboard but is also going to spread that 200 lbs over a much larger surface area of foam. It also removes there terminals from harms way. Long way of saying I like Luyuan's packaging approach.

I still wouldn't stack even the double boxes 4 high or expect the double box to withstand being shipped individually where it would get subjected to much higher g forces as well as being dropped on its edges and corners.

 

[740GLE]

They also used pack 280k cells 2 to a box.

I wonder what they’d ship in now.

 

[ghostwriter66]

I picked up my MB31 cells from Luyuan today. The 4 cell boxes were stacked 3 high on the pallet. Packed inside the outer box was an inner box with foam around it. The inner box was on its side which would reduce the stress on the terminals.

The terminals have the red and black dots and the threaded inserts. So I guess that tends to confirm that the red and black dots indicate that the terminals were installed by EVE rather than by a third party.

So far so good. I haven't inspected all the cells yet and will report any discrepancies that show up during my full inspection and battery box assembly.

Probably not a big deal to most but when you order almost 800 batteries at a time the dimesnions of the shipment will kill you often times more than the weight ... EVE/EEL was packing these things 4 to a box with the entire centre area open -- the centre area fit a 5th battery perfect ... we had them start putting 5 to a box instead of four ... that meant that instead of winding up paying for 30 boxes to ship -- we would have to only pay for 5 ... the savings added up quickly ....

so if you are going to have the batteries shipped -- ask them to maximize the packaging in the box ... us having an open space with those moisture packets in there provided us NO help and cost us $$$$$

 

[jorby]

Probably not a big deal to most but when you order almost 800 batteries at a time the dimesnions of the shipment will kill you often times more than the weight ... EVE/EEL was packing these things 4 to a box with the entire centre area open -- the centre area fit a 5th battery perfect ... we had them start putting 5 to a box instead of four ... that meant that instead of winding up paying for 30 boxes to ship -- we would have to only pay for 5 ... the savings added up quickly ....

so if you are going to have the batteries shipped -- ask them to maximize the packaging in the box ... us having an open space with those moisture packets in there provided us NO help and cost us $$$$$

Your math is confusing in this post. 30 boxes of 4 = 120 and 5 boxes of 5 = 25. neither =800?

 

[PVGeezer]

Probably not a big deal to most but when you order almost 800 batteries at a time the dimesnions of the shipment will kill you often times more than the weight ... EVE/EEL was packing these things 4 to a box with the entire centre area open -- the centre area fit a 5th battery perfect ... we had them start putting 5 to a box instead of four ... that meant that instead of winding up paying for 30 boxes to ship -- we would have to only pay for 5 ... the savings added up quickly ....

so if you are going to have the batteries shipped -- ask them to maximize the packaging in the box ... us having an open space with those moisture packets in there provided us NO help and cost us $$$$$

Id be cautious about asking a seller like Luyuan to modify a packing system that has been working well. Adding more weight is going to stress the packaging more and could result in failures.

Packaging design is an underappreciated engineering discipline, but it is indeed engineering. Kinda like asking a structural engineer to just go ahead and add another lane to that old bridge. Maybe it's ok but maybe it's not. There is no data either way so there is no way to know.

For someone buying lots of cells that's fine, you can afford to risk a failure because of the potential gain in long term shipping savings once you've proven that you can do it. But for must of us who are only making one or two smaller buys it's not worth it IMO.