I wanted to install a system in Idaho that would allow me to generate most of my power but still have a little bit of incoming power from the grid to handle it if my system can't keep up with my loads. I was talking with a friend earlier and he told me that I cannot use a hybrid inverter even in off-grid mode because, that would need to be inspected and permitted and I would have to get an agreement with my power company. I'm wondering if anyone here can clarify exactly what Idaho's rules are in a nutshell and what I am legal to do without getting permits or anything else. No applications or agreements.
Idaho rules
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Rednecktek
Expert Newbie
Ooohhhh... tough question! It's not an easy answer because you've got at least 3 layers of rules & regs to jump through. In theory you could get a large unit and go Grid -> Inverter -> House and never back feed, but there are a lot of stories of "no backfeed inverters" sending a little back through when it syncs up with the grid to draw power and tipping off the PoCo that something is amiss on your line.
It really comes down to how much you want to risk it. You might get away with wiring in a "generator hookup" and feeding your inverter in through there, but you'd need a second panel to bring in your grid feed and pipe that to the AC Input of your inverter.
It really comes down to how much you want to risk it. You might get away with wiring in a "generator hookup" and feeding your inverter in through there, but you'd need a second panel to bring in your grid feed and pipe that to the AC Input of your inverter.
timselectric
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The only thing that you can "legally" do without a permit is a portable system.
What you might be able to sneak by with is different for every location.
What you might be able to sneak by with is different for every location.
rogerheflin
Solar Addict
permits and inspections are often at the county/city level and if so what needs a permit/inspection in one county may need nothing in another county.
The counties to the east and west of me need a lots of permit/inspections for pretty much everything you do. The larger cities in my counties need inspections, but outside of those cities there are few rules. My county actually specifies that no permit is required for roof top solar, they only want a structure permit for ground mount panels. So what your friend knows may not apply to your location.
Home owners in Idaho can do there own electrical work in there primary residence only, and you are required to file for a permit and get the installation inspected.
I did work within Idaho Power service area and they require a schedule 68 form for any home owner power generation system, wether it is exporting or not.
I don't know about Rocky Mountain Power or Avista Utiity requirements. Which ever service provider you have, it is just a phone call to get your question answered.
I was under the impression that as long as it wasn't a grid tie inverter, you could use an off-grid or hybrid in off-grid mode and not have to do any permits or applications or anything. So, are the people who are doing it breaking the law or any kind of rules or regulations? I just don't see how it could hurt anything as long as you're not back feeding.
There are ways for that to go wrong. Many, or maybe most, off-grid inverters are unable to sync to the grid if it's on-line in their circuit. That means that they can't be installed in contact with circuits energized by the grid. The magic smoke comes out right away.
Using a hybrid in off-grid mode is technically a better option, but sadly, the fine print might get you anyway. Your electricity provider might forbid this (mine does). When the lawyers and engineers at the power company sit in a room and decide what they can and can't deal with, they aren't likely to assume the consumers out there are as smart and meticulous as astronauts. No, it's safer for them to assume the customers are clumsy yokels, and they write the rules to address those situations. To the detriment of the rest of us. You really have to ask your provider for the rules. They can't keep them secret from you!
I had a Trace SW4024 since 2005 but I never interconnected it to grid circuits. I used it in off-grid mode in buildings far away from the house that had no grid electricity at all.
Using a hybrid in off-grid mode is technically a better option, but sadly, the fine print might get you anyway. Your electricity provider might forbid this (mine does). When the lawyers and engineers at the power company sit in a room and decide what they can and can't deal with, they aren't likely to assume the consumers out there are as smart and meticulous as astronauts. No, it's safer for them to assume the customers are clumsy yokels, and they write the rules to address those situations. To the detriment of the rest of us. You really have to ask your provider for the rules. They can't keep them secret from you!
I had a Trace SW4024 since 2005 but I never interconnected it to grid circuits. I used it in off-grid mode in buildings far away from the house that had no grid electricity at all.
Huh?
This would be my plan under the criteria. Add a second main panel and power it with an inverter. Move all house circuits to the new panel and run off battery and solar. Only a charger from the original utility panel to the battery. Plug-in charger would be best (no hardwire).
All that connects to the grid is a battery charger. Surely they cannot regulate that ... can they?
I was talking about splicing into the lines coming from the meter before they enter my breaker box and running those lines to the input side of the inverter. Then, put an interlock on my breaker box and run the AC output of the inverter to a 60 amp two pole breaker that feeds the whole breaker box inside. Turn off the main breaker so that grid power cannot enter the breaker box. All the grid would be doing is going through the inverter and taking care of what my system couldn't do.
timselectric
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Yup
timselectric
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A hybrid or grid-tied system requires permission and approval from the power company, and the local AHJ.
Off grid systems only require approval from the local AHJ.
Portable systems are not regulated by the AHJ. Other than the connection to the house (if there is one).
Dagoth Ur Does Solar
Solar Wizard
There's horror stories of some governments using drones and satellite imagery to find solar panels and come harass property owners for having unapproved systems.
Can't speak to what's really true or not, but I could definitely see it happening.
timselectric
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You are more likely to get turned in by a neighbor.
Or if the inspector drives by on the way to another inspection.
Or if the inspector drives by on the way to another inspection.
timselectric
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They absolutely do.
You mean the building inspector or?
Quattrohead
Emperor Of Solar
An "off grid" inverter is just a large battery charger that just happens to use solar panels too.
timselectric
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Electrical inspector.
But they all hang out together.
So, any inspector (building, plumbing, health) might pass on , to the electrical inspector, that they seen work happening.
Im having a similar conversation here, but it's about installing a 12 V system in a van without informing the authorities or the insurance. If the van catches fire, the insurance is going to say adios, but the worst case scenario is damage or injury to third parties.
What would be the overall cost of a fully legal system vs going pirate? whats your priority, independence or cost?
This is the low cost option for the van build.
I would still check the legality of this as when it comes to rules and regulations, words, like connect, can have different meanings.
Edit. To be clear, I don't have any moral objection to folks breaking the rules as long as no third parties are affected.
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timselectric
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A van build is easy. There's no regulatory authority.
Grid tie here in Spain, as far as I can tell is very straightforward & off grid is completely unregulated, unlike putting some 19 inch rims on your car which is a ball ache
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