I'm just a little PO'ed. Return of The Magic Smoke

[Zwy]

There's never enough time or money to do it right, but there's always time and money to do it over. Most DIY solar install videos follow this rule.

If you are implying I didn't spend enough money or enough time when building my house system, you are very mistaken.

Final cost was over $40K. Made for a nice tax credit.

 

[740GLE]

This could be a cause, it definitely cuts down on the surface contact area. Basically, wire size is marginal to begin with, then the cross sectional area of contact is reduced possibly as high as 75% with the ridges on both pieces.

I did just take these closeup photos and did separate the wire and ferrule from the copper bar.

View attachment 235072View attachment 235074View attachment 235075

The left side of the last photo is where the wire burned off.

It definitely appears to be the hottest point of the connection. The black char I believe was the melted insulation the ran down the connection and burned.

Looking at the color of these photos, the bar almost appears to be brass with a copper coating? I don't think the bar is pure copper but possibly contains some other metals in the mix.



I agree, 2 failures is not a large enough sample size.

Replacement should be here next week, I will leave the connectors bypassed from this point on and leave the 10AWG all the way to the PCB from the IMO.

But this was seeing 13a, that’s such a low low current in the grand scheme. I mean the surface area of say a wago or spring connector on a back stab is “rated” for 15a.

Maybe because the ridges were at an angle that this reduced the surface area. It was acting like a waffle cut French fry.

 

[Zwy]

Just wire nut your connections and call it good.
I thought they were the most bizarre things when I first arrived in the USA but now I love them, a great connection method if done properly.
I'm still thinking they had a reel of shit wire that got used up in these things.

I'm still puzzled by the 14AWG, even with the 105C insulation. These are rated for 22A input.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

First company to put temperature sensors with alarms/email/text messaging alerts on each connector block wins

Hell a big flashing red warning light would be something.

Should be standard on any charge controller over 15 amps.

I have already done this on a few of my inverters and plan on having it on all of them eventually. Too many pokers in the fire atm.

I'm getting to old to keep petting all of my cables to check for overheating.

I am at the point of thinking that anything with terminals that could be DIY'ed and handles more than about 1000 watts of power regardless of amperage, or voltage should have a NTC sensor at the screw terminals with an internal manually resetable breaker that trips if it get over say about 90°c (exact temp can be debated later)

edited for clarity: this would cover crappy components or poor assembly at the factory as well as improper connecting (torque corrosion etc.) by user. (not blaming the user here.)

 

[robbob2112]

I am at the point of thinking that anything with terminals that could be DIY'ed and handles more than about 1000 watts of power regardless of amperage, or voltage should have a NTC sensor at the screw terminals with an internal manually resetable breaker that trips if it get over say about 90°c (exact temp can be debated later)

That sounds interesting is there something like that you have in mind?

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

That sounds interesting is there something like that you have in mind?

sorry Bro, in this arena I would be like the apple guy or the bill gates guy.. lots of ideas that I pay my indentured servants to figure out so that I get rich doing nothing but thinking about the big picture.

 

[gotbeans]

just saw this thread, didn't read all of it so idk if it was mentioned but here's another failure getting started lol, right next to it. that thing is coming out?

edit
hahahaaha NVM I read to page 2 and saw like 20 people mentioning it

Very interesting. I just installed 2 x 80a Midnite Breakers that have (what looks like) this exact way of connecting the 4awg wire. I have many Midnite breakers but 80a that fits in a breaker box on DIN rail as apposed to the alternate where you screw into the top of the breaker thru a mounting hole in a box is a 1st for me. Will have to keep an eye on it!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06Y1KNDCR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title

View attachment 233924

weird cuz my midnight has my 1 awg going directly into it. the terminal is big enough for 0 gauge though. It's 125amp
wonder why they do external ones like that, also that's double breaker'd so yours is 2x 40amps going to 1 shared terminal. Guess it's for cheaper manufacturing.

 

[740GLE]

View attachment 235151
just saw this thread, didn't read all of it so idk if it was mentioned but here's another failure getting started lol, right next to it. that thing is coming out?

edit
hahahaaha NVM I read to page 2 and saw like 20 people mentioning it



weird cuz my midnight has my 1 awg going directly into it. the terminal is big enough for 0 gauge though. It's 125amp
wonder why they do external ones like that, also that's double breaker'd so yours is 2x 40amps going to 1 shared terminal. Guess it's for cheaper manufacturing.

This one two is at an angle, seeing the ferrule ridges are so pronounced that cross the connector ridges I’d def want to losen that up, square the lead in the connector and retighten. Sure the ferrule is larger over all compared to the 14awg, but I think is the crossing of ridges that doesn’t help anything.

How much load has been placed on those larger connectors I’m guessing is for your battery connections?

 

[Zwy]

This one two is at an angle, seeing the ferrule ridges are so pronounced that cross the connector ridges I’d def want to losen that up, square the lead in the connector and retighten. Sure the ferrule is larger over all compared to the 14awg, but I think is the crossing of ridges that doesn’t help anything.

How much load has been placed on those larger connectors I’m guessing is for your battery connections?

About 4240W max, the rated size of the panels.

I have not noticed any problems. This is silicon jacketed battery cable and very fine. Ferrules would remain.

 

[Brucey]

This one two is at an angle, seeing the ferrule ridges are so pronounced that cross the connector ridges I’d def want to losen that up, square the lead in the connector and retighten. Sure the ferrule is larger over all compared to the 14awg, but I think is the crossing of ridges that doesn’t help anything.

How much load has been placed on those larger connectors I’m guessing is for your battery connections?

Wills unit seems to be much more consistent in terms of how those battery cable ferrules sit in the connectors (depth/angle wise).

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Wills unit seems to be much more consistent in terms of how those battery cable ferrules sit in the connectors (depth/angle wise).

there is always the possibility that he got ones that the QC was a little tighter on as I think they all new he was purchasing for testing purposes on his websites... I would make damn sure he was getting good units if it were me. like somebody said before though it could have been just a bad run of cables and the OP is running his hard... short of empirical testing we are all just guessing.hats why i suggested swapping the upper unit to the lower position to eliminate the panels and wiring to the panels as a consideration.

 

[Zwy]

I'm not running these that hard, they are rated for 5500W. The input now is 22% less than the rated capacity.

I've shown the amperage and voltage from PV. Both strings run the same. If the panels or wiring had a problem, how would both strings run the same?

 

[robbob2112]

Your pictures prove to me it was a combo of the ferrules and the terminal connector. Just a bad combo for mating surfaces. You aren't exceeding amps for the wire or connectors, just a hot spot causing the issues.

And the other one may just be aligned an torqued in such a way that it doesn't create a hot spot.

What does surprise me is that they haven't had many many complaints of the same issue and modified how that is done.

 

[SparkyJJO]

I think with a connector like that ferrules are totally the opposite of what you want.
If it were mine, I'd probably just cut the ferrule off, re-strip the wire, and clamp it down bare. Pretty darn sure it would never be an issue after that.

 

[gotbeans]

This one two is at an angle, seeing the ferrule ridges are so pronounced that cross the connector ridges I’d def want to losen that up, square the lead in the connector and retighten. Sure the ferrule is larger over all compared to the 14awg, but I think is the crossing of ridges that doesn’t help anything.

How much load has been placed on those larger connectors I’m guessing is for your battery connections?

what do you mean the ridges are so pronounced? every eg4 product I've ever seen looks the same on those ferrule crimps. They aren't THAT long though, that's the only difference

I think with a connector like that ferrules are totally the opposite of what you want.
If it were mine, I'd probably just cut the ferrule off, re-strip the wire, and clamp it down bare. Pretty darn sure it would never be an issue after that.

yea I've tested with ferrules but I don't get them, they're for so you don't "leave a piece of wire strand out" ok well, uhh.. I just use my eyes to see that...
Otherwise I see more heat there than without, always.

 

[robbob2112]

Actually it depends - terminal connectors like that from phoenix contact has a v groove at the bottom so you put a ferrule in there and it makes contact on two side plus the top that is pushing on it. Their guide says use with or without ferrules. Dinkle makes similar styles and even in this style their spec sheet lists wire usage with and without ferrules.

I think I stated somewhere early on that it looked like a poor copy of one.

 

[Zwy]

I think with a connector like that ferrules are totally the opposite of what you want.
If it were mine, I'd probably just cut the ferrule off, re-strip the wire, and clamp it down bare. Pretty darn sure it would never be an issue after that.

I'm just bypassing the connector on the PV wires, even on the replacement charge controller on the way.

Wife gets paranoid after the magic smoke comes out. She was not happy about this recent failure.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

I'm not running these that hard, they are rated for 5500W. The input now is 22% less than the rated capacity.

I've shown the amperage and voltage from PV. Both strings run the same. If the panels or wiring had a problem, how would both strings run the same?

Bro I was thinking in terms of over time. as in does one set of panels run cooler (due to air flow for instance) if so over time its output would stay stable, whie the hotter running panels would go down. this leads to heat buildup over time in the better running panels set.

so whiel they may make the same amount in static conditions when you check them in the AM and the panels are not surfacce of mecury level hot yet, one set could be in fact running cooler and making more power over time, leading to their controller building up more heat, specifically at the junction that melted in yours.

only way to prove would be to set ntc probes and data log the data over time, and coincidentally have the SCC's wires melt during that process.

Hence I was like just swap the new unit into the top slot, and the old one into the bottom and see if the old one now blows.. IE problem stays with location, or moves.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

I'm not running these that hard, they are rated for 5500W. The input now is 22% less than the rated capacity.

I've shown the amperage and voltage from PV. Both strings run the same. If the panels or wiring had a problem, how would both strings run the same?

yes, but isn't the common consensus to de-rate chinese components by at least 30%? everyone says that for the BMS's why would any other electronics from them be any different? (OP, honestly curious, not bagging on you). I de-rate all of the DALY BMS's I use, and would do the same for JK, JBD or any of the other chinese offerings. If I was running a chineese inverter i would derate that as well.

matter of fact I am have two sigineers that are going to be used in my hot water dump load. they claim 5000 watts I will be running them at a max of about 3500 each just for that reason. My magnums inverters on the other hand? I work those hookers like a whore on dollar day with the 7th fleet and the third MAR Div in port.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

matter of fact I am have two sigineers that are going to be used in my hot water dump load. they claim 5000 watts I will be running them at a max of about 3500 each just for that reason. My magnums inverters on the other hand? I work those hookers like a whore on dollar day with the 7th fleet and the third MAR Div in port.

Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a b?

 

[Brucey]

yes, but isn't the common consensus to de-rate chinese components by at least 30%? everyone says that for the BMS's why would any other electronics from them be any different? (OP, honestly curious, not bagging on you). I de-rate all of the DALY BMS's I use, and would do the same for JK, JBD or any of the other chinese offerings. If I was running a chineese inverter i would derate that as well.

matter of fact I am have two sigineers that are going to be used in my hot water dump load. they claim 5000 watts I will be running them at a max of about 3500 each just for that reason. My magnums inverters on the other hand? I work those hookers like a whore on dollar day with the 7th fleet and the third MAR Div in port.

Here's a guy who had serious problems with a bunch of the eg4 SCCs:

Stand alone mppt.

Hi all. Excuse the long post but i think i need to give a review and ask a question. A bit of background to put into context. I'm in southwest Mexico 300 metres from the beach. Humidity can get very high. I have 15 kv SolArk off grid. I have all mppts in operation 10 panels on each. On 2 of...

diysolarforum.com

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Here's a guy who had serious problems with a bunch of the eg4 SCCs:

Stand alone mppt.

Hi all. Excuse the long post but i think i need to give a review and ask a question. A bit of background to put into context. I'm in southwest Mexico 300 metres from the beach. Humidity can get very high. I have 15 kv SolArk off grid. I have all mppts in operation 10 panels on each. On 2 of...

diysolarforum.com

Wow! seriously Wow..... I am guessing there boards are not coated or at least are not very thickly coated.

 

[Zwy]

yes, but isn't the common consensus to de-rate chinese components by at least 30%? everyone says that for the BMS's why would any other electronics from them be any different? (OP, honestly curious, not bagging on you). I de-rate all of the DALY BMS's I use, and would do the same for JK, JBD or any of the other chinese offerings. If I was running a chineese inverter i would derate that as well.

I derate plenty of Chinese made products at 50%, Daly is one. 22% would only be at peak power at high noon, the rest of the time it would be close to your 30%.

matter of fact I am have two sigineers that are going to be used in my hot water dump load. they claim 5000 watts I will be running them at a max of about 3500 each just for that reason. My magnums inverters on the other hand? I work those hookers like a whore on dollar day with the 7th fleet and the third MAR Div in port.

I can remember back when the 7th Fleet would come into port and when Marines came back from Okie.

 

[Zwy]

Here's a guy who had serious problems with a bunch of the eg4 SCCs:

Stand alone mppt.

Hi all. Excuse the long post but i think i need to give a review and ask a question. A bit of background to put into context. I'm in southwest Mexico 300 metres from the beach. Humidity can get very high. I have 15 kv SolArk off grid. I have all mppts in operation 10 panels on each. On 2 of...

diysolarforum.com

You are mistaken, not the EG4 MPPT 100-48HV.

He was sent the Growatt SCC. The poster is running very close to max VOC on that charge controller as it is 250VOC rated. Most 550W and 450W panels will have a VOC around 48V to 50V. 5S strings will be at the 250VOC rating and cool mornings it will be exceeded. The problem is most likely not humidity but rather VOC that is too high.

Poster was asked in another thread about panel specs but ignored the question.

 

[hwy17]

It does stand out to me that @Zwy you are one of the most meticulous enthusiasts around. Your DIY battery cabinets are easily top 3 most beautiful work around and your entire installation of all your equipment is always ready for the cover of a magazine.

And yet, you hold seemingly none of the prejudice against the chinese equipment that others might do. I don't know that's because you don't believe there's any merit to the claims that this new wave of equipment is poorly designed, or you are just a willing participant in the process of it's up and coming and maturation and you would find it boring not to be taking part in the process of finding the bugs in a fast paced and maturing segment of products.

I'm nearly the polar opposite in design attitude. My installation is so ugly it makes laymen gasp and look around for the fire extinguisher. Children cling to their mother's leg and dogs yelp as they scurry away. But I have a devotion to products of a north american design lineage, from the descendants of Heart Interface. I rely heavily on my faith that those guys knew what they were doing and developed them slowly with care.

That is all to say it takes restraint for me not to look at these outcomes and say that's what happens when you go with these new kind of imported designs. I don't say that because I don't want to jinx myself. So I'll just go knock on the wood that my equipment is mounted directly to instead.