I'm just a little PO'ed. Return of The Magic Smoke

[HRTKD]

I de-rate all of the DALY BMS's I use, and would do the same for JK, JBD or any of the other chinese offerings. If I was running a chineese inverter i would derate that as well.

The Overkill Solar BMS (aka JBD) was tested to run at the rated output, for hours. I've run my 120 amp BMS from them at 100+ amps for testing, no problem. Some brands of the Chinese-source electronics are better than others. That said, if JBD was so good/reliable, why did Overkill Solar create their own BMS from scratch? <-- Rhetorical question, not really looking for any answer.

 

[Quattrohead]

They didn't, just slapped their own label on it but did do their own software.
The heat sink is tiny compared to most so it must be very efficient. Has anyone actually fucked one of these up?

 

[green mountain boys]

Overkill Solar (from their website)

"JBD has new models available, but we have rejected all of their offerings for various reasons, mostly due to the complete lack of security on their built-in bluetooth connection."

 

[Zwy]

It does stand out to me that @Zwy you are one of the most meticulous enthusiasts around. Your DIY battery cabinets are easily top 3 most beautiful work around and your entire installation of all your equipment is always ready for the cover of a magazine.

And yet, you hold seemingly none of the prejudice against the chinese equipment that others might do. I don't know that's because you don't believe there's any merit to the claims that this new wave of equipment is poorly designed, or you are just a willing participant in the process of it's up and coming and maturation and you would find it boring not to be taking part in the process of finding the bugs in a fast paced and maturing segment of products.

It is mainly because of how the technology is improving, so why spend the extra when tomorrow the equipment will be outdated? Think back a few years ago, a 3Kw inverter was considered large. Now 10K and larger is commonplace.

5 years from now much of what we use now will be replaced with something else most likely. That means the return of the original expenditure should be less than 3 years (I'm only discussing electronics, not batteries or PV). You know the rules about technology increases, we are just getting started in this area and things probably will move fast unless innovation is snuffed out by utility company lobbying.

As for these charge controllers, I ended up with these when the EG4 6500EX did not work out. I had purchased the LV6548's before the 6500EX's and my array was planned to be closer to my house. Plans changed, array was moved to over 400 feet away and I decided to purchase the 6500EX's for higher PV voltage. It was cheaper to buy the 6500EX's than spend $2600 for wire using the LV6548's. I installed the LV6548's while the original 6500EX's were returned and used half of the array to meet the lower VOC and all the problems with light flicker were gone, sine wave was perfect, I was impressed. After the replacement pair of 6500EX's were the same as the originals, I put the LV6548's back in. But I faced the problem of needing higher VOC rated charge controllers in order to use all of the array or pull more wire and larger wire. My wife said she wasn't pulling the wire out of the conduit and pulling some back in. So, I guess it was the EG4 MPPT 100-48HV's as the logical choice.

These have worked flawlessly after the firmware update for the false F01 code in low light conditions other than the previous failed connector in one unit. I've been running one since July 1st of last year and the other since July 31st of last year. In that time frame these have generated 9913 Kwh to date. The only problem has been the connector and I'm puzzled why. It most likely is the 14AWG wire inside the unit. I have found these MPPT's to be quite efficient with tracking, I commonly see right at full PV production from the array and fully charged by noon running mini splits 24/7. This past July was 1032 Kwh for the month, all ran thru those 2 charge controllers. They do get run hard, in February and March the total was over 900 Kwh per month as we heated the house with just electric power from PV.

I'm nearly the polar opposite in design attitude. My installation is so ugly it makes laymen gasp and look around for the fire extinguisher. Children cling to their mother's leg and dogs yelp as they scurry away. But I have a devotion to products of a north american design lineage, from the descendants of Heart Interface. I rely heavily on my faith that those guys knew what they were doing and developed them slowly with care.

There is a point for purchasing American made products. I see inferior parts quality in my line of work on a daily basis. I also recognize healthy competition creates innovation. The overseas manufacturers are one of the big innovators in the move towards solar power. Where would we currently be without that innovation? Probably about where we were 3 to 5 years ago. As we know, most electrical components and assemblies are made overseas, even if it says Midnite on it.

That is all to say it takes restraint for me not to look at these outcomes and say that's what happens when you go with these new kind of imported designs. I don't say that because I don't want to jinx myself. So I'll just go knock on the wood that my equipment is mounted directly to instead.

I don't have a problem with the charge controller, just the connector. In both failures, I bypassed the connector and the units run just fine. Condemning the product because of that single fault that doesn't affect the operation is not the answer, the manufacturer just needs to improve the product with feedback like this.

 

[Zwy]

EG4/Signature Solar had a new charge controller here in about 3 days and I installed a day later. I found some interesting things on the installation, the video explains in detail what I found. It has been about 4 months since the installation of the replacement unit and it has worked flawlessly other than setting the F01 code once as I never updated the firmware.

Comments?

 

[Will Prowse]

Good point, those breakers are polarized.

We need to send this to EG4. They shouldn't be wiring it like that

 

[seneysolar]

What voltage is that breaker rated for? Weren't they running the 2 polarized breakers in series for the 500v rating of the mppt?
I dont know for sure, just asking, I couldn't read the breaker in the video, when i paused it was fuzzy. Running 2 300v breakers in series is common for Midnite/cbi breakers to achieve a 600v rating.

 

[sollap]

The datasheet for these breakers on page 32 shows the series configuration ( 2P (C) ) to increase the working voltage to 500v, but it shows it with a loop at the bottom. Done that way the positive to negative path follows the markings on the breaker.
With both Positive and Negative controlled by the breaker the way Zwy has it (Nader's 2P (B), It would maintain it's 500v rating, because you are still providing twice the breaking distance of a single 250v breaker. Just on different sides of the load.

 

[seneysolar]

The datasheet for these breakers on page 32 shows the series configuration ( 2P (C) ) to increase the working voltage to 500v, but it shows it with a loop at the bottom. Done that way the positive to negative path follows the markings on the breaker.
With both Positive and Negative controlled by the breaker the way Zwy has it (Nader's 2P (B), It would maintain it's 500v rating, because you are still providing twice the breaking distance of a single 250v breaker. Just on different sides of the load.

But the 2 sides of the breaker are no longer in series. He used 1 side for the neg and 1 side for positive. Maybe i am missing something?

 

[SparkyJJO]

But the 2 sides of the breaker are no longer in series. He used 1 side for the neg and 1 side for positive. Maybe i am missing something?
View attachment 258100

All part of the same circuit so the effect is the same.

 

[HighTechLab]

The voltage on a 2-pole breaker with the poles wired in series (to act as a single pole breaker) is equally rated if you ran both positive and negative through each pole. Polarity must be observed for the voltage rating to increase. The following diagram represents two configurations that both support up to 600Vdc PV




Now, in the video, the breaker is rated for 500Vdc for each pole. The only need to wire the poles this way to achieve voltages of 1000Vdc, however, this would not be needed as the controller is only rated for 500V. The reason it is wired this way, is because this means the configuration is no longer polarized. Should it open, regardless of the direction the current is flowing, the breaker is able to extinguish an arc and break the circuit.

This means, if current flows from the charge controller out to the solar array, and the breaker needs to trip, it has sufficient capability to break the reverse current and clear the arc created when opening.

 

[seneysolar]

The voltage on a 2-pole breaker with the poles wired in series (to act as a single pole breaker) is equally rated if you ran both positive and negative through each pole. Polarity must be observed for the voltage rating to increase. The following diagram represents two configurations that both support up to 600Vdc PV

View attachment 258102


Now, in the video, the breaker is rated for 500Vdc for each pole. The only need to wire the poles this way to achieve voltages of 1000Vdc, however, this would not be needed as the controller is only rated for 500V. The reason it is wired this way, is because this means the configuration is no longer polarized. Should it open, regardless of the direction the current is flowing, the breaker is able to extinguish an arc and break the circuit.

This means, if current flows from the charge controller out to the solar array, and the breaker needs to trip, it has sufficient capability to break the reverse current and clear the arc created when opening.

Ok, i was always under the impression that in order to retain the higher voltage rating you couldn't do it like option 2. Learn something new every day!

 

[HighTechLab]

Ok, i was always under the impression that in order to retain the higher voltage rating you couldn't do it like option 2. Learn something new every day!

Only because the breaker is a common trip. If it was independent trip and both poles did not open at once, it would not be sufficient.

 

[seneysolar]

Only because the breaker is a common trip. If it was independent trip and both poles did not open at once, it would not be sufficient.

Ohhh there it is, thats why it didn't make sense at first. Thank you for that detail!

 

[Zwy]

This means, if current flows from the charge controller out to the solar array, and the breaker needs to trip, it has sufficient capability to break the reverse current and clear the arc created when opening.

Dexter, I guess the question then becomes what voltage would be reverse current should this happen? My guess is 48V nominal as the only power available would be from the battery or DC side of the system.

As for the previous failures, EG4 never has provided information on why the connector failure occurs. There has not been any follow up.

I think it was discussed somewhere, these are the charge controllers from the EG4 3Kw inverters. I have to wonder what those used for PV connectors and if there were any failures. I can find no reason on my end for the failures- amps and voltage agree on both controllers, same number of panels, same 8S string, all from one panel manufacturer per controller. Everything is identical for each controller.

 

[HighTechLab]

Dexter, I guess the question then becomes what voltage would be reverse current should this happen? My guess is 48V nominal as the only power available would be from the battery or DC side of the system.

As for the previous failures, EG4 never has provided information on why the connector failure occurs. There has not been any follow up.

I think it was discussed somewhere, these are the charge controllers from the EG4 3Kw inverters. I have to wonder what those used for PV connectors and if there were any failures. I can find no reason on my end for the failures- amps and voltage agree on both controllers, same number of panels, same 8S string, all from one panel manufacturer per controller. Everything is identical for each controller.

Not sure exactly what could cause the reverse current, but technically, even something like a capacitor bank could cause a respectable amount of current to flow. I’ve never touched one of these controllers personally, but just thought the background would be constructive here.

 

[Alkaline]

That said, if JBD was so good/reliable, why did Overkill Solar create their own BMS from scratch? <-- Rhetorical question, not really looking for any answer.

Quite certain its because of the bluetooth issue, the PIN code is basically useless as the overkill solar app it self just bypasses it.
The second is JBD has there own website and under cuts Overkill by listing for 1/3 of the price. I doubt he can stay in business when your supplier is also your competitor.

It will be nice to see what overkill comes up with.

 

[SparkyJJO]

So based on your experiences with these controllers, if you had to do it over again, would you still buy the EG4 SCC or spring for something else?

I'm still thinking ahead for when we get our homestead and when I set up solar there. I am not going to be running an AIO (already have my Radian) so I'll need charge controllers.

 

[Zwy]

So based on your experiences with these controllers, if you had to do it over again, would you still buy the EG4 SCC or spring for something else?

I've run 15 Mwh thru these, the connector is the problem, the rest works great. I have not updated the firmware on the replacement and it did code F01 once but that would be corrected by the firmware. Updating firmware isn't a pressing concern.

I'm still thinking ahead for when we get our homestead and when I set up solar there. I am not going to be running an AIO (already have my Radian) so I'll need charge controllers.

I would buy SRNE 10Kw inverters and use those for charge controllers, this gives the ability to have backup power. Cheaper than Victron SCC's and the bonus is the extra inverters. One could use the EG4 3Kw AIO, the charge controller is the same as the EG4 MPPT.

Would I buy the EG4 MPPT again? Yes, if I wanted just a charge controller.

I paid $2388 for the pair of SRNE 10Kw ASP's from Borick and think I'd rather go that route once these EG4's die and are out of the 3 year warranty. One SRNE has a pair of 5.5Kw charge controllers. A pair of EG4 MPPT's will run over $800 with shipping, the SRNE should be under $1200 with DDP shipping. For about $300 more, I know which direction I would take.

 

[agtcovert]

I would buy SRNE 10Kw inverters and use those for charge controllers, this gives the ability to have backup power. Cheaper than Victron SCC's and the bonus is the extra inverters. One could use the EG4 3Kw AIO, the charge controller is the same as the EG4 MPPT.

I paid $2388 for the pair of SRNE 10Kw ASP's from Borick and think I'd rather go that route once these EG4's die and are out of the 3 year warranty. One SRNE has a pair of 5.5Kw charge controllers. A pair of EG4 MPPT's will run over $800 with shipping, the SRNE should be under $1200 with DDP shipping. For about $300 more, I know which direction I would take.

This is roughly what I've been thinking about for 2025, depending on funds and where panel pricing goes. I'm hoping to add 2 additional arrays/strings--I have 2 ASPs in parallel currently, 3 of 4 inputs are used. When I ordered from Borick, I got 3 of the ASP 10k's. Hedged on having a backup.

If you short pins 1 & 2 on the dry contact ports, it will essentially shut the inverter down. My half-baked plan right now is to cable it to the battery bank and use the MPPTs. Wouldn't need it for AC power. And then shut it off after hours so it's not using power when it's idle.