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Inspector wants an outdoor battery shutoff . . .

Chris&D

New Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2022
Messages
5
I've gotten through most of the inspection but I can't figure out how to make the inspector happy on this part - an outdoor battery shutoff (all the rest the system has an outdoor shutoff, but he contends the batteries still hold power and also need to be shut off). Does anyone here have a clue how to go about this? Also according to NEC, the shutoff has to be locked. Fun times :)
 
I know this comment isn't helpful, but your inspector is an ignorant ass.

A battery is NOT an ESS.

The requirement is to disconnect the ESS from the the premises wiring.

As defined by 2020 NEC 706.2, an ESS is “one or more components assembled together capable of storing energy and providing electrical energy into the premises wiring system or an electric power production and distribution network.” These systems can be mechanical or chemical in nature. In this post, we are most interested in the chemical variety used to store electrical energy (for example, lead-acid and lithium-ion batteries).

storing AND providing electrical energy into the premises wiring system.

AND not OR

Batteries connected to an inverter can't provide electrical energy into the premises wiring system if the inverter is disconnected from the wiring, i.e., the inverter output is disconnected from the premises wiring.

If you had a tesla powerwall with an integral inverter (a true ESS), would this inspector require that the battery inside the powerwall be disconnected at an external shutoff in addition to the shutoff between the powerwall and the house? No, but this is what he is requiring of you.

You need an external cut of in a lockable box that completely disconnects your system from the house. That's it.

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2020 Code Language:

706.15(A) ESS Disconnecting Means.
A disconnecting means shall be provided for all ungrounded conductors derived from an ESS and shall be permitted to be integral to listed ESS equipment. The disconnecting means shall comply with all of the following:

(1) The disconnecting means shall be readily accessible.

(2) The disconnecting means shall be located within sight of the ESS. Where it is impractical to install the disconnecting means within sight of the ESS, the disconnect shall be installed as close as practicable, and the location of the disconnecting means shall be field marked on or immediately adjacent to the ESS. The marking shall be of sufficient durability to withstand the environment involved and shall not be handwritten.

(3) The disconnecting means shall be lockable open in accordance with 110.25.

For one-family and two-family dwellings, a disconnecting means or its remote control shall be located at a readily accessible location outside the building.
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2023 Code Language:

706.15 Disconnecting Means.

(A) ESS Disconnecting Means.
Means shall be provided to disconnect the ESS from all wiring systems, including other power systems, utilization equipment, and its associated premises wiring.

N (B) Location and Control. The disconnecting means shall be readily accessible and shall comply with one or more of the following:

(1) Located within the ESS

(2) Located within sight and within 10 feet from the ESS

(3) Where not located within sight of the ESS, the disconnecting means, or the enclosure providing access to the disconnecting means, shall be capable of being locked in accordance with 110.25

Where controls to activate the disconnecting means of an ESS are used and are not located within sight of the ESS, the disconnecting means shall be lockable in accordance with 110.25, and the location of the controls shall be marked on the disconnecting means.

For one- and two-family dwellings, an ESS shall include an emergency shutdown function to cease the export of power from the ESS to premises wiring of other systems. An initiation device(s) shall be located at a readily accessible location outside the building and shall plainly indicate whether in the "off" or "on" position. The "off" position of the device(s) shall perform the ESS emergency shutdown function.

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This will not be the first or last AHJ that needs educating on the finer details. Just gather the evidence and present it politely and hopefully they will come round to your way of thinking ?
 
Or maybe just do what he asks and move on?

Sometimes (unless we are talking about major $$$ here) it's easier than arguing with folks.

Not saying that the "education" approach isn't the right one, but life is short and there are better things you could be doing...
 
I have always tried to discuss "Code" with the AHJ. I want their interpretation because it should help both of us to learn. In my area most inspectors are just enforcement of the stamped engineering drawings.
You find out real quick which will discuss and which don't care other than trying to leave! Nearly all will accept the manufacturer recommended instalation.
NOBODY wants to assume any liability anymore!
 
Or maybe just do what he asks and move on?

Sometimes (unless we are talking about major $$$ here) it's easier than arguing with folks.

Not saying that the "education" approach isn't the right one, but life is short and there are better things you could be doing...
But how do you propose to put an outdoor battery disconnect? Run an extra 50 feet of 4/0 wire?
 
/facepalm
Duh.

I'd blame the lack of coffee, except I already drank the pot. No excuse now.
 
Ok, I was wondering about this issue last night. I have a battery bank, two EG4 LL 48V batteries connected to a EG4 6500 Inverter. If there was a fire, my fire department may shut power off the the house, if this happens the 6500 would switch to battery power and supply AC voltage to the house. If we were outside of the house because of the fire, how do I shut down the batteries and inverter so no one gets electrocuted? I can't right now. That stinks. Any ideas?
 
I've gotten through most of the inspection but I can't figure out how to make the inspector happy on this part - an outdoor battery shutoff (all the rest the system has an outdoor shutoff, but he contends the batteries still hold power and also need to be shut off). Does anyone here have a clue how to go about this? Also according to NEC, the shutoff has to be locked. Fun times :)
One can use a remote shunt trip breaker with a push button located outside the home. Large battery bank, multiple shunt trip breakers if needed. Midnite has 175A and 250A shunt trip breakers but only do one pole. You can source ABB breakers off ebay that are shunt trip but be careful, some models are not rated to the 600VDC like the one I use in my house. You can source 4 pole ABB shunt trip breakers and that would allow both positive and negative to be switched off on two banks. This is what 3 pole looks like, you will need a 24V power supply for the shunt trip. The 24V power supply is mounted on the din rail.

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Ok, I was wondering about this issue last night. I have a battery bank, two EG4 LL 48V batteries connected to a EG4 6500 Inverter. If there was a fire, my fire department may shut power off the the house, if this happens the 6500 would switch to battery power and supply AC voltage to the house. If we were outside of the house because of the fire, how do I shut down the batteries and inverter so no one gets electrocuted? I can't right now. That stinks. Any ideas?
Doesnt the eg4 6500 support RSD? I know my 18kpv WILL shutdown on RSD unless RSD unselected under the Maintainance Tab
 
You could also use normally open DC contactors... when the outside switch is pulled/closed it provides power to energize the contactors. Just get one with an economizer on the coil so it only consumes a few watts.


Power fails and it automatically opens.
 
RSD initiator button that triggers the shunt trip on the batteries counts in many jurisdictions.
 
RSD initiator button that triggers the shunt trip on the batteries counts in many jurisdictions.
Hi Dexter. Agree, an RSD initiator should work for the OP. Do you guys sell an RSD Initiator that can be placed in (or already comes with) a lockable box? I see the IMO unit on your site but am hoping to find one that a kid (or idiot relative at a cookout) can't easily press. Even a tiny padlock that could be popped with a Leatherman would do the trick (and present no obstacle to a firefighter). Thoughts?
 
You could also use normally open DC contactors... when the outside switch is pulled/closed it provides power to energize the contactors. Just get one with an economizer on the coil so it only consumes a few watts.


Power fails and it automatically opens.
That would not work, I use the 6500 and the batteries to kick on when we lose power, if I installed the component you recommend, I would have to go and get out of bed to turn the system back on. I'm using it as a UPS for the house. I just need a way to shut the system down from outside in case of a fire.
 
Hi Dexter. Agree, an RSD initiator should work for the OP. Do you guys sell an RSD Initiator that can be placed in (or already comes with) a lockable box? I see the IMO unit on your site but am hoping to find one that a kid (or idiot relative at a cookout) can't easily press. Even a tiny padlock that could be popped with a Leatherman would do the trick (and present no obstacle to a firefighter). Thoughts?
I understand where you are coming from but don't love the idea of putting a lock on it. If you do, I would use a knox box that uses a standard key that the fire department already has on hand - that's how big commercial buildings do it with their shunt-trip main breakers.
 
That would not work, I use the 6500 and the batteries to kick on when we lose power, if I installed the component you recommend, I would have to go and get out of bed to turn the system back on. I'm using it as a UPS for the house. I just need a way to shut the system down from outside in case of a fire.

You get the power to energize the contactor from the battery side of things. Only if pushed would it kill the battery if wired right. There have been some other very good suggestions that will work. If a fire burns through the wires to the button the batteries disconnect.

It is actually common to use a small battery local to the button that is kept charged by the main bank. Otherwise you would need a bypass to connect the batteries.
 
A solenoid is how you shut off big cables from a distance. as i am sure others will have pointed out. try searching remote voltage ---dc battery disconnected on the web.
 
Solenoid has some subtle differences from a contactor.... they both behave like a large relay... but solenoids don't have arc chutes to break the DC contact. And typical solenoids don't have the hardened contacts to allow the current to be repeatedly broken while high current is flowing.

There are other mechanical differences as well...
 

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