Interesting what's considered a 'Tier 1' chinese inverter, wonder if Amy would be our purchase agent.

Maast

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From this page https://suntiago.com/essential-information/brands-ranking/#inverters

I've been considering requesting if @Amy Wan (Luyuan) would be interested in acting as a purchase agent for members of the forum for top-quality inverters manufactured in China. Trust is a precious commodity sorely lacking in the Chinese market and there are only 3 or 4 vendors on Alibaba I'd even only vaguely trust and Amy is by far at the top of them.

Specifically the Sungrow SH line of inverters (even though they have a rather high PV voltage input) and the Phocos Any-Grid line of inverters which are headquartered in Germany but made in China.

Also interesting to see Growatt on this list, hadnt considered them before. Havent done enough research on the Huawei, Solis or Goodwe inverters to see which ones would be suitable for the US/Canadian residential market.

Sineng is focused on utility-scale inverters and so not suitable for us.

Thoughts?

1611097240736.png

@Steve_S you're a lot more knowledgeable about this, what do you think?
 
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Maast

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IMO
To add to the above list
Tier 1 Outback, Magnum, Victron
Tier 1.5 Samlex EVO line, Xantrex, Schneider, Phocos Anygrid
Tier 2 would be Aims, Sigineer, MPP
Tier 3 would be Power Jack, and everything else you find on Amazon/Ebay/AliXba
 
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Dzl

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I know there are at least a few US based suppliers selling Phocos inverters. Never looked into them so not sure of the price point (and how much could be saved buying direct from China (still indirectly through a layer or two of resellers).

Also out of curiosity where would you (personally) place Victron Multi/Quattro, Schneider Conext, and (if you are familiar with them) Kisae on that list?
 

Maast

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I know there are at least a few US based suppliers selling Phocos inverters. Never looked into them so not sure of the price point (and how much could be saved buying direct from China (still indirectly through a layer or two of resellers).

Also out of curiosity where would you (personally) place Victron Multi/Quattro, Schneider Conext, and (if you are familiar with them) Kisae on that list?
knew I forgot one, Victron is a tier 1, and from what I've been reading Schneider's are having severe quality issues so they'd be a 1.5 at best. I have no idea of Kisae - never looked into them. I'll edit the above list.

You'd be a great one to ask too since you've compiled your manufacturer list which I imagine took a great deal of research.
How would you rank them?
 

HaldorEE

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How would the Sunny Boy models rank? There are a ton of them available at good prices after the bankruptcies.
 

HaldorEE

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I would rank Samlex EVO in the top tier at least if the specs are to be believed. Samlex does make some lower cost inverters that are not as good.
 

Dzl

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knew I forgot one, Victron is a tier 1, and from what I've been reading Schneider's are having severe quality issues so they'd be a 1.5 at best. I have no idea of Kisae - never looked into them. I'll edit the above list.
I don't know much about Kisae's reputation (as a company or about their products specifically), they make a LF and an HF inverter as well as DC-DC / MPPT combo. They have piqued my interest lately (partially in the context of the 'inverters under $500' thread), but I haven't really looked into them. I'm hoping they might be an attractive mid tier option, but they may turn out to be run-of-the-mill. I've yet to look into it.

You'd be a great one to ask too since you've compiled your manufacturer list which I imagine took a great deal of research.
Actually my digging has mostly all been on LFP cell manufacturers, and BMSes and to a lesser extent B2B/DC-DC chargers, I have not dove deeply into the world of inverters (beyond Victron to a degree, and trying to decipher the Sigineer/Aims/Sungoldpower/Yiyen/Renogy/ECPC web of branding and rebranding (and re-re-branding 😄)). So I am mostly dependent on the opinions/advice/reviews of others, and datasheets when it comes to inverters.
 
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Steve_S

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@Steve_S you're a lot more knowledgeable about this, what do you think?
I got pinged so here I is.
Samlex = Made in Taiwan, so won't happen.
Non-Chinese, forget it.

The costs to carry Inverters and such is Very High. I'm not sure Amy could or would want to go there. The focus ATM is Battery Cells and Related materials for battery assembly to completion. It may be something Amy would consider down the road, but they have quite a lot on their plate at this time. The gear has to be bought in Quantity and that's overhead that has to be passed on... Never know, you can ask Amy in her thread and see what she says.

Steve
 

Maast

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The costs to carry Inverters and such is Very High. I'm not sure Amy could or would want to go there. The focus ATM is Battery Cells and Related materials for battery assembly to completion. It may be something Amy would consider down the road, but they have quite a lot on their plate at this time. The gear has to be bought in Quantity and that's overhead that has to be passed on... Never know, you can ask Amy in her thread and see what she says.
I didnt figure she'd want to stock them so thats why I'm wondering if she'd be a 'purchase agent' :

We figure out the actual high quality inverters in the market and tell her, she establishes a business connection to the manufacturer & puts them on her page, we order them and she then forwards that order on to those trusted manufacturers/distributors for direct shipping to us and takes a cut of the proceeds for her time and contacts. She never has to handle a thing except the paperwork.

Amy is about a million times better placed to evaluate vendors to trust and orders of magnitude more knowledgeable in dealing with the Chinese market than us poor schmucks on the internet trying to dig through the seething mass that is Alibaba and Aliexpress.

I know I'd happily pay a bit more for knowing I could order and have a high confidence that I'm not going to get ripped off.
 
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HRTKD

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Given that my Xantrex inverter is around 15 years old, I would say Tier 1 for quality, but Tier 1.5 for features/connectivity.

GoPower! would be in the Tier 2 category at best. They market their stuff well, but it seems like it isn't much different from the cheap no-name Chinese stuff.

Harbor Freight? Tier 4? :)
 

HaldorEE

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Given that my Xantrex inverter is around 15 years old, I would say Tier 1 for quality, but Tier 1.5 for features/connectivity.

GoPower! would be in the Tier 2 category at best. They market their stuff well, but it seems like it isn't much different from the cheap no-name Chinese stuff.

Harbor Freight? Tier 4? :)
Tier 5 is more like it.

I recall when HF made a big push into inverter based welders 3 years ago. Lots of gushing press, but also lots of problems. I wouldn't use one (I have a Miller so I guess that makes me a snob).
 

Siji

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Phocos anygrid inverter offers the best value for money. It quite versatile and handles load well. I stress tested it for two hours and it handled it smoothly.. still running perfectly after one year..

I know there are at least a few US based suppliers selling Phocos inverters. Never looked into them so not sure of the price point (and how much could be saved buying direct from China (still indirectly through a layer or two of resellers).

Also out of curiosity where would you (personally) place Victron Multi/Quattro, Schneider Conext, and (if you are familiar with them) Kisae on that list?
 

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Hedges

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(SMA Sunny Boy)

The page referred to in the OP states they're a Tier 1, they're now manufactured in China too.

SMA tried that once, customers didn't like it.


SMA bought a Chinese inverter manufacturer they felt provided quality, and for a time had some U.S. models built there.
I later read SMA stopped that, only used the Chinese manufacturer for China market (if I recall correctly), can't find that article now (which had pictures comparing inside the inverters.) One comment in that article was that inverter failures which did occur were from German made PCBA in that product, not the Chinese content.

A number of SMA inverters for the U.S. market are made in U.S. or Canada. Sunny Island (battery inverter) may still be made in Germany.
 

Hedges

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Midnight has inverters made in U.S.
Also their "DIY" line, made in China.
 

iamrich

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How are we defining Tier 1?

My company defines:

Tier 1 as an OEM (original equipment MFG, actually makes the part)
Tier 2 as a distributor or value add OEM (adding something to the product)
Tier 3 as resellers (no value added, other than getting product closer to the consumer).

The ranking is not based off build quality.
 
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