Inverter fail compounded

[SWSL]

I just bought a 12/1200 Victron Phoenix Inverter last month. I tested it upon receiving and it worked fine for an hour running a large fridge.

So I fly it to my home in Mexico and hook it into my system temporarily to verify that it runs my Mexico fridge as I already have (a high frequency 2K watt) one installed. I bought this for reserve.

So, it ran my fridge here for a few hours, but the next morning I find it shut down with LEDs flashing an error that the Victron app tells me is "high ripple" Hmm.

OK, I try disconnecting, double up the short (40 cm) 4 ga cable and it's still stuck on the LED error. I realize that I need to have a BT adapter in order to diagnose any further. Don't have one here. I went through various changes in cables and connections and the ripple error remains no matter what. Zero load, but no output and LED flashing ripple error. I figure I bought a problematic inverter or something got stuck that the app may fix. Plan to return it soon to the USA, test it with a BT adapter on it there and see if I need an RMA or it clears.

But first, I thought I'd test it one more time directly connected to my car battery. Big mistake. Turns out that there's red where there shouldn't be on the battery lugs and I stupidly reversed the DC in polarity. I really really really know better. I'm an electrician among other things. But just didn't take it slow enough. So, I got smoke and spark. I opened it up and the fuse is indeed blown but no visible signs of burn.

I know that changing the fuse (once I find one) is not going to fix it as it had a previous issue. But I now compounded it. Can't believe they'll take it back with a fuse blown nor changed. May even reject it for being opened.

It's got that great big transformer in it and I don't see just tossing it (not my style) but now what? Any suggestions? Repair in the USA for 60-200% of value or try Victron? With the blown fuse I doubt I can work with them on the original issue until the fuse gets changed. But that will void the warranty I imagine.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Thread 'Easy fix for small Victron inverter that's blown from reverse polarity'

Jun 28, 2022

A kid at the place where I used to work made up an extension cable with the wrong polarity at one end and blew 3 new inverters before he came to ask me what was going on. I ended up with the inverters and figured it was worth at least trying to get them going again.

I did some searching and found that there's a soldered fuse inside will likely blow if the inverter's wired with reverse polarity. Victron will repair this if you send the inverter back, no doubt at your cost. Two of them were their smallest 180 W inverter. Sending them back to The Netherlands from the UK would have...

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• Replies: 2
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Worth running this checklist:

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Pre-RMA_bench_test_instructions/114199-Pre-RMA_bench_test_instructions-pdf-en.pdf

Contact your dealer. Did you break any "warranty void if removed" labels? I don't recall any on my Quattro.

 

[hwy17]

My guess is the high ripple error was actually just the lifepo4 battery going into protection mode (i.e. running out of charge) and hopefully after the fuse is replaced the inverter will work again.

Change the fuse and retest from the car battery. If it works then the real problem is the lifepo4 battery.

 

[J.H.]

If yours is like my 24/1200 , you have to take the cover off to change the unit from floating ground to a bonded neutral/ground set up by moving the spade connector to a different tab 8n side the unit.

It’s been two years but IIRC it was in the manual how to do it..
It’s my best guess you haven’t voided the warranty…but I’m not positive.

J.

 

[robbob2112]

I know some inverters just use a diode in reverse across the inputs as a method to protect against reverse connections --- of course if you do reverse it and it fails you can end up with a short across the leads --- replace the diode and things are happy, or clip it out and don't make that mistake again ... I have only seen this with the smaller inverters

 

[SWSL]

Thanks for such quick responses!

Two things I neglected to mention:

1) When it went into error mode the 230 ah LFE battery it was at 60% and showing 13.4 at the inverter. I reconnected the main inverter and resumed using it without issue. Later when I came back to retest, the battery was at 90% charge (by chance) I doubled up the 4 ga and re-tested with and without loads. It never returned function and only flashed errors. Zero AC output. It should at least turn on and have output after being off for hours.

So not the battery. And I doubt the cables were thin enough to provoke ripple. It never unlocked from the ripple error code like it should once restarted under no load. I think something in the logic board was out or locked up.

Yet, I stupidly felt that I should test it one more time on a different battery days later before lugging it back to the USA

2) this was a "factory second" inverter, so I was wary that it might have a latent issue.

No there was not a warranty void if opened sticker, good point! I have that Victron Pre-RMA list. Reading closely now, it does not say anything about fuse being changed nor about signs of opening, so maybe all is not lost ... but I wonder how to approach this with the retailer. "Hello, I've got an inverter with a blown internal fuse due to reversed input and before that it was locked up with an LED error."
Or "My inverter is not working. I replaced the fuse but it's flashing errors?"
Or just "nothing works lights don't come on - what do I do?

There are paint marks on the fuse bolts. To me suggesting that they want to know if fuse has been changed. It's a 200 amp midi fuse. But no mention of changed fuse as disqualifiying in the pre-RMA list anyway. So failure due to dust is my "fault" but they might be ok with reversed polarity. Imagine that!

 

[SWSL]

Floating ground is correct in my use. No other option in my main inverter.
I didn't see a diode across the leads, but maybe it's there.

 

[J.H.]

Thanks for such quick responses!

Two things I neglected to mention:

1) When it went into error mode the 230 ah LFE battery it was at 60% and showing 13.4 at the inverter. I reconnected the main inverter and resumed using it without issue. Later when I came back to retest, the battery was at 90% charge (by chance) I doubled up the 4 ga and re-tested with and without loads. It never returned function and only flashed errors. Zero AC output. It should at least turn on and have output after being off for hours.

So not the battery. And I doubt the cables were thin enough to provoke ripple. It never unlocked from the ripple error code like it should once restarted under no load. I think something in the logic board was out or locked up.

Yet, I stupidly felt that I should test it one more time on a different battery days later before lugging it back to the USA

2) this was a "factory second" inverter, so I was wary that it might have a latent issue.

I have that Victron Pre-RMA list. Reading closely, it does not say anything about fuse being changed nor about signs of opening, so maybe all is not lost ... but I wonder how to approach this with the retailer. "Hello, I've got an inverter with a blown internal fuse due to reversed input and before that it was locked up with an LED error."
Or "My inverter is not working. I replaced the fuse but it's flashing errors?"
Or just "nothing works lights don't come on - what do I do?

There are paint marks on the fuse bolts. To me suggesting that they want to know if fuse has been changed. It's a 200 amp midi fuse. But no mention of changed fuse in the pre-RMA list anyway.

If it were me, I wouldn’t say to much… don’t lie , but don’t say a lot ….
…..”it flashes and won’t work”
Saying too much gives any company a way to find an issue that can justify a denial of warranty ..

I would say , “ hey guys , I’m a customer with a unit that’s doing crazy stuff…can y’all help me make it work… ? tell me what’s wrong….? Can you fix it?

Then see what they come back with…
Ya never know …
But you can most certainly in this day and age say to much..

Jus my opinion…J.

 

[SWSL]

If yours is like my 24/1200 , you have to take the cover off to change the unit from floating ground to a bonded neutral/ground set up by moving the spade connector to a different tab 8n side the unit.

It’s been two years but IIRC it was in the manual how to do it..
It’s my best guess you haven’t voided the warranty…but I’m not positive.

J.

Ah, now I understand. You are not suggesting I change the ground but that there are legit reasons to open it.

 

[J.H.]

Ah, now I understand. You are not suggesting I change the ground but that there are legit reasons to open it.

Correct…If you read the manual ( which I don’t have with me ) you may find it’s ok for you to switch from floating ground to bonded yourself …I forget if it’s spelled out there… if it is then you must remove the cover to do it …so it shouldn’t mess up your warranty if they told how to do it…

I have no idea what’s wrong with your unit…I was only addressing your concern about removing the cover you mentioned…and that I would be cautious about saying a whole lot about stuff and let them tell you what’s wrong..
they may just hand you a new one ….
Or they may run you out the door ….who knows..? I’ve had both treatments in the past…

Best of luck ….J.

 

[SWSL]

Yep. "Hi. it's not working what do I do?" Worst case is that I have to foot the bill for shipping an inverter that they won't repair or replace if deemed my fault due to the fuse.

Yet I don't think I should replace the fuse myself as it will show?
I'm considering making a fused jumper I can clip to both ends of it to see if it will power it back on and if it goes into the same LED error as I expect it will. At that point, once in the US, I could go back to the next step in their bench testing process and connect a BT dongle, get into the app. Possible firmware update or more detailed diagnostic I dunno. THEN contact the retailer for RMA if no remedy through the app.

But I don't think I should replace the paint sealed fuse itself before possible RMA, right?

 

[outboard1196]

Yep. "Hi. it's not working what do I do?" Worst case is that I have to foot the bill for shipping an inverter that they won't repair or replace if deemed my fault due to the fuse.

Yet I don't think I should replace the fuse myself as it will show?
I'm considering making a fused jumper I can clip to both ends of it to see if it will power it back on and if it goes into the same LED error as I expect it will. At that point, once in the US, I could go back to the next step in their bench testing process and connect a BT dongle, get into the app. Possible firmware update or more detailed diagnostic I dunno. THEN contact the retailer for RMA if no remedy through the app.

But I don't think I should replace the paint sealed fuse itself before possible RMA, right?

Picture of the fuse in question?

 

[SWSL]

Picture of the fuse in question?

Didnt take one. Maybe I will open again Saturday when Im home again to take photo. Its a 200 amp midifuse.

 

[SWSL]

OK. I opened it and got it to power up using a power supply and a fused positive clipped to the business side of the blown fuse. It lit up fine and went right back to the error it was flashing before I fed it reversed polarity. A red flash, both, green flash, red flash , both etc.
I measured my supply voltage before and during connection to the inverter. Curiously, once it was hooked up, the DC Voltage went up to around 17v. No idea how it does that, but it was consistent.

 

[J.H.]

Ya may have just got a bum unit…unfortunatly… …but if I remember it was a factory second, (whatever that means) and probably at lower cost… I have bought those before in different devices… it can go either way for ya… good buy…or regretfully buy….

Just ask em can you fix it …? and pay em for it if you have to and move on.

J.

 

[SWSL]

Ya may have just got a bum unit…unfortunatly… …but if I remember it was a factory second, (whatever that means) and probably at lower cost… I have bought those before in different devices… it can go either way for ya… good buy…or regretfully buy….

Just ask em can you fix it …? and pay em for it if you have to and move on.

J.

Supposedly it's a full 5 year warranty. It's what they call B-stock. Open box returns etc. This one arrived with a bent foot so I hoped maybe that was why it was B-stock. Or it had been dropped maybe. Funny thing is that it did work fine when I tested it for ten minutes upon reciept but later, under load for a few hours it went South. If they are going to honor warranty or fix, then the "b-stock" part shouldn't make any difference to them.

It's interesting how much simpler this is than the regular high frequency ones I've opened up. Mostly copper. A lot less heat sink.

 

[400bird]

Put a new fuse it it and send it back.
Say you put a new fuse in, because you thought maybe the original one was a dead.

 

[J.H.]

All I’m saying is it’s not very expensive… get it fixed… if they do it then great.. if you have to do it then it’s still great… one’s time is worth a lot more than stressing over a piece of gear that cost less than dinner for 4 at a decent steakhouse..( not great but decent ) …..